8th Ed. The BEST close combat units in all of Warhammer.

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Yes, plus their Murderous Prowess. They're pretty hardcore for a core choice to be honest.

Yes, Murderous Prowess too, although it not nearly as impactful as the other 3 (attacks, poison, ASF). But yes, it does help them out too.

Skinks are great for this as well, even just cohorts who can be thrown away after firing at them and probably killing a bunch (or Razordons but I dislike Razordons due to having to use their BS to hit... that said, I've always been pretty unlucky with my artillery dice rolls on Salamanders.... )

Razordons and Skinks can also damage the Witch Elves, but nearly so much as a Salamander or two. It just takes one of those flame templates to hit right to make HUGE difference. Such a tightly packed, small base size, no armour and low toughness unit is the ideal target for the Salamander.

I think this is one of the key points about both armies. They have awesome, deadly troops in their core section. I wonder how much it would change both armies if for instance the only core choices for Dark Elves were Spearmen/Swordsmen and Archers.... Conversely, I wonder what kind of a difference it would make to Lizardmen to be able to have straight-up Kroxigor in their core choices or even COR.

Makes you thinks doesn't it?

It is an intriguing idea. The core options of an army can really dictate the focus of the entire force.

In the case of the WoC, if you nerfed the Chaos Warriors, you'd see a lot of chariot play and Throgg + core Trolls.

What if Warriors of Chaos had to field Marauder-type troops as their core only?! Or none of their core choices could have any Marks of Chaos?

Interesting thought.
You can probably run it as a house rule

You could house rule it if you were the one playing the WoC army. However, it would probably be a pretty tough sell to tell the Chaos player that he can't use the very namesake of his army!

Marauders are pretty underwhelming this edition. Interestingly, they were the go to option in the 7th edition WoC book. They were so cheap and effective that most people brought a unit (or two) of 50 Marauders with GWs (often with the MoK).

Besides, so far, this tourney is showing that the Chaos Warriors are not the "big baddies" that they are made out to be. True, these are the best of the best, but they are losing to several infantry units at the moment. Of course we'll have to wait until everything is all said and done, but currently they reside in the bottom 5.

I still maintain that the real bread winners in a WoC army are the DPs, Hortennse characters, Skullcrushers, Hellcannons, Chimeras, etc.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

End of round 4. Each contestant has fought in four matches.

The current standings are as follows:





The K'daai has a slim lead. The Dark Elves are surprisingly holding the second and third positions. The Skullcrushers are only tied for 6th, but their tormentors, the Demigryphs have really dropped off. The Chaos Warriors are struggling, while the Mournfang have definitely separated themselves from the Spider.


What will round 5 bring? Stay tuned to find out.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

End of round 4. Each contestant has fought in four matches.

The current standings are as follows:

View attachment 81892
View attachment 81893


The K'daai has a slim lead. The Dark Elves are surprisingly holding the second and third positions. The Skullcrushers are only tied for 6th, but their tormentors, the Demigryphs have really dropped off. The Chaos Warriors are struggling, while the Mournfang have definitely separated themselves from the Spider.


What will round 5 bring? Stay tuned to find out.

Both the Skullcrushers and the Warriors of Chaos are nowhere near the top spot...

I guess @Imrahil is the best bet right now with the Witch Elves at Number 2, but unfortunately I don't see them maintaining their position...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

guess @Imrahil is the best bet right now with the Witch Elves at Number 2, but unfortunately I don't see them maintaining their position...

I agree with you. The Witch Elves still have a lot of really hard matchups coming up

I think in a head-to-head matchup, the Witch Elves get hard-countered by:

• Skullcrushers
• Demigryphs
• Mournfang

I also think they get beat by the Black Guard (against one another, not overall standing).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Let us begin round #5. Black Guard of Naggarond vs. Arachnarok Spider

Key rules in play:

• Arachnarok: Natural Armour (4+), Poisoned Attacks (Spider only), Stubborn
• Black Guard: ASF, Murderous Prowess, Stubborn

THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!


The moral of the story... S4 doesn't do very well against T6. That was the difference maker that kept the Spider in the game. The Spider's S5 thunderstomp against the T3 and 5+ armour save Black Guard was also critical.

With that, every single competitor now has at least a single victory under their belt. Nobody will go home empty handed.



And as always... Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!

 

[Imrahil]

Both the Skullcrushers and the Warriors of Chaos are nowhere near the top spot...

I guess @Imrahil is the best bet right now with the Witch Elves at Number 2, but unfortunately I don't see them maintaining their position...

I agree with you. The Witch Elves still have a lot of really hard matchups coming up

I think in a head-to-head matchup, the Witch Elves get hard-countered by:

• Skullcrushers
• Demigryphs
• Mournfang

I also think they get beat by the Black Guard (against one another, not overall standing).

Yep, I have my hopes, but holding my celebrations for now
The matchups are in favor of the Witch Elves up to this round. I surely hope for some interesting results coming.

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Imrahil]

THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!

Talking about interesting
Not that it makes any difference in the stands, but hey one battle won can make for great stories and songs

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Let us begin round #5. Black Guard of Naggarond vs. Arachnarok Spider

Key rules in play:

• Arachnarok: Natural Armour (4+), Poisoned Attacks (Spider only), Stubborn
• Black Guard: ASF, Murderous Prowess, Stubborn

View attachment 81901

THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!
THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!! THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!


The moral of the story... S4 doesn't do very well against T6. That was the difference maker that kept the Spider in the game. The Spider's S5 thunderstomp against the T3 and 5+ armour save Black Guard was also critical.

With that, every single competitor now has at least a single victory under their belt. Nobody will go home empty handed.

View attachment 81902

And as always... Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!

Just goes to show that the Arachnarok is a powerful monster... and you need to pick your match-ups!!!

 

[Killer Angel]

THE ARACHNAROK WINS!!

Smart move from the black guards to die on the battlefield.
I don't want to think to the fate of the survivors, coming back to Naggaroth and explaining why Witches and Executioners are doing so well, while they bite the dust against the monster that, up 'til now, knew only defeats...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Talking about interesting
Not that it makes any difference in the stands, but hey one battle won can make for great stories and songs

I began cheering for the stupid spider just because I didn't want to see a unit go through the entire tournament with straight losses!

Smart move from the black guards to die on the battlefield.
I don't want to think to the fate of the survivors, coming back to Naggaroth and explaining why Witches and Executioners are doing so well, while they bite the dust against the monster that, up 'til now, knew only defeats...

Good point.

The Black Guard will have to steal a few points off of their fellows. I think they stand a very good chance against the Witch Elves and I think they hard counter the Executioners.

Just goes to show that the Arachnarok is a powerful monster... and you need to pick your match-ups!!!

I did call it...

Funny you should mention the Soul Grinder, that is one of the remaining matches set for this round. I think their best chance is either against the Soul Grinder as you suggested or the Black Guard. The Soul Grinder has very few attacks, no ranks, no standard, while the Black Guard will need 6's to wound the Spider.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

The Black Guard will have to steal a few points off of their fellows. I think they stand a very good chance against the Witch Elves and I think they hard counter the Executioners.

How appropriate, given the Dark Elf lore.

I did call it...

Yup, you certainly did. I believe both of us will be wrong about the winner though...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Yup, you certainly did. I believe both of us will be wrong about the winner though...

Yup. I think everybody will be!

I should have gone with my second pick. Dammit!

 

[Killer Angel]

Yup, you certainly did. I believe both of us will be wrong about the winner though...

Me too.
But at least i am guessing right the last place, so I'm satisfied with myself.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Hammer time... I mean match time! Witch Elves versus Hammerers!

Key rules in play:

• Hammerers: Stubborn
• Witch Elves: ASF, Frenzy, Murderous Prowess, Poisoned Attacks

Easy peasy lemon squeezy. The Witch Elves have no problems shredding the Hammerers. Simply put, by the time the Hammerers strike, the Witch Elves have devastated them. Too many attacks, too many hits and too much poison. Meanwhile, the Hammerers S6 is wasted on T3 and no armour save.

It will be interesting to see how the Hammerers fair against the more heavily armoured units (Demigryphs, Skullcrushers, Mournfang), each of who have less attacks and less models/wounds (at any given points value / unit size).




So what do you guys think?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Me too.
But at least i am guessing right the last place, so I'm satisfied with myself.

You should be. I had an inkling that the spider would do badly, but didn't have the guts to choose it over the Black Guard (who have had some surprising victories). As they say, fortune favours the brave.


Looks like my second choice for the winner might win it all and my second choice for biggest loser will finish last. So close, yet so far away!

 

[Imrahil]

Hammer time... I mean match time! Witch Elves versus Hammerers!

Key rules in play:

• Hammerers: Stubborn
• Witch Elves: ASF, Frenzy, Murderous Prowess, Poisoned Attacks

View attachment 81948


Easy peasy lemon squeezy. The Witch Elves have no problems shredding the Hammerers. Simply put, by the time the Hammerers strike, the Witch Elves have devastated them. Too many attacks, too many hits and too much poison. Meanwhile, the Hammerers S6 is wasted on T3 and no armour save.

It will be interesting to see how the Hammerers fair against the more heavily armoured units (Demigryphs, Skullcrushers, Mournfang), each of who have less attacks and less models/wounds (at any given points value / unit size).

View attachment 81949


So what do you guys think?

Ohw yeah, there they go again. Man what a massive punch in the first round.
If the K'daai Destroyer makes anything less then a Massive Victory the Witch Elves are back at the top again

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Killer Angel]

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

yeah, this was sure. The only doubt was "will the hammerers be able to squeeze a loss, instead of a massive loss?". nope.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Ohw yeah, there they go again. Man what a massive punch in the first round.
If the K'daai Destroyer makes anything less then a Massive Victory the Witch Elves are back at the top again

Grrr, Imrahil

Unfortunately, they still have several armoured units to go up against, as @NIGHTBRINGER said, which they will fail at, so I see them dropping to third or fourth place by the end.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Ohw yeah, there they go again. Man what a massive punch in the first round.

Pretty nasty. The ladies are not messing around. If the Hammerers go 5 wide in the first round in order to limit incoming damage, they actually end up doing ever so slightly worse (leaving the Witch Elves with 18.6 wounds, instead of the 18.0 wounds we see above). So no way around it for the poor Dwarfs.

yeah, this was sure. The only doubt was "will the hammerers be able to squeeze a loss, instead of a massive loss?". nope.

I'm surprised we haven't heard some grumblings from @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl . I would have thought for sure that he'd add the Witch Elves to his Book of Grudges!

Unfortunately, they still have several armoured units to go up against, as @NIGHTBRINGER said, which they will fail at, so I see them dropping to third or fourth place by the end.

Indeed. The Witch Elves have done very well up until now, but they have also enjoyed a slightly more favourable schedule. They can't duck the armoured units forever!

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Indeed. The Witch Elves have done very well up until now, but they have also enjoyed a slightly more favourable schedule. They can't duck the armoured units forever!

I have to say that I have severely underestimated this unit. Kudos to @NIGHTBRINGER for spotting the omission from the line-up. I guess I've never had to withstand a full attack by a Witch Elves unit that has been protected from missile fire. I always have them as a primary target for all types of missiles (especially my Skirmishers and the Ancient Steg's Giant Blowpipes) so I've never been hit with a "full-bitch" attack.

Really, REALLY deadly if you don't have high-level armour. Especially if you have a Hag and a Cauldron of Blood to further buff their attacks...