8th Ed. The BEST close combat units in all of Warhammer.

[Killer Angel]

A scrappy victory for the Chaos Warriors. The Mark of Nurgle and 2 attacks of piece from the front line seemed to be the key difference makers. Also, the White Lions enter the fray essentially 50 points short due to their Banner of the World Dragon having zero impact

that's the risk of having such a banner.
Anyway, despite the "win", WoC have been reduced to a bunch of stinking survivors, so we can say it was really close.

but still no tie. Will we see one?

 

[Imrahil]

Let us continue with round 5 with another matchup. Chaos Warriors vs. White Lions of Chrace

Key rules in play:

• Chaos Warriors: MoN
• White Lions: Stubborn, Martial Prowess, ASF and ASL cancel each other out

View attachment 82066


A scrappy victory for the Chaos Warriors. The Mark of Nurgle and 2 attacks of piece from the front line seemed to be the key difference makers. Also, the White Lions enter the fray essentially 50 points short due to their Banner of the World Dragon having zero impact.

The Chaos Warriors really needed that win, as they have been struggling in the competition. They now have 2 victories and 3 losses. However, the White Lions still enjoy a 1 point lead over them in the overall standings.

View attachment 82065

A satisfying contest for all the White Lion haters?

Eat dust, you filfthy Elves!!

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Unfortunately, I'd like to see them at the bottom of the table but despite my dislike of them they are a fearsome opponent and will definitely be on the upper level of the final table...

We'll see, but if I were to bet on it, I'd say that they will end up in the bottom 8 as opposed to the top 8. Their score is a bit inflated at the moment as they have already fought 2 out of the 3 units that they hard counter with their banner.

If we discount the two massive wins they got purely because of their banner, they have actually lost all three of their other matches (two minor losses and one massive loss).

that's the risk of having such a banner.
Anyway, despite the "win", WoC have been reduced to a bunch of stinking survivors, so we can say it was really close.

but still no tie. Will we see one?

I'm doubtful. You never know, but the stars really have to align for that to happen!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Who's ready for another match? Demigryph Knights vs. Hell Pit Abomination!

Key rules in play:

HPA: Stubborn, Regeneration, Special Close Combat Attacks





Talk about a close fight. The HPA survives the fight with 0.9 wounds remaining. The Demigryphs were able to put up a just slightly better fight than the Skullcrushers had, but in the end it wasn't enough.

The HPA is doing quite well for itself in the tournament. It currently sits at 4 wins and 1 loss. Only the mighty Witch Elves have been able to humble it up until now. The HPA currently sits in a three way tie for third place. It would seem that the Skaven can build themselves a pretty good monster too. As for the Demigryphs, they slip into the bottom 8 of the tourney. I'm curious to see if they can turn it around.

Our table now looks like this...


Only two matchups remain in round 5!

Please share your thoughts!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Double-header! Savage Orc Big'uns versus Har Ganeth Executioners!

Key rules in play:

• Savage Orcs: Choppas, Frenzy, Warpaint
• Executioners: Murderous Prowess, ASF and ASL cancel each other out

Coming into this match the Executioners were tied for third place, but that didn't stop the Savage Orcs from earning a much needed Victory. It was a close and bloody affair.

The Executioners were simply unable to break the Savage Orcs' Frenzy. Towards the end, those three attacks per model in the front rank really paid dividends. Still, not a terrible showing for the one attack per model Executioners, who all things considered are better suited at taking out enemy armour.

And with that...



And with that, we're down to a single matchup left in round 5. Skullcrushers vs. Beasts of Nurgle are up next!

Discuss!

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Who's ready for another match? Demigryph Knights vs. Hell Pit Abomination!

Key rules in play:

HPA: Stubborn, Regeneration, Special Close Combat Attacks


View attachment 82104
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Talk about a close fight. The HPA survives the fight with 0.9 wounds remaining. The Demigryphs were able to put up a just slightly better fight than the Skullcrushers had, but in the end it wasn't enough.

The HPA is doing quite well for itself in the tournament. It currently sits at 4 wins and 1 loss. Only the mighty Witch Elves have been able to humble it up until now. The HPA currently sits in a three way tie for third place. It would seem that the Skaven can build themselves a pretty good monster too. As for the Demigryphs, they slip into the bottom 8 of the tourney. I'm curious to see if they can turn it around.

Our table now looks like this...
View attachment 82106

Only two matchups remain in round 5!

Please share your thoughts!

Well, I was expecting the HPA to do well, I wasn't expecting the Demi-gryph Knights to almost beat it! Good on them! It's nice to see an Empire unit which (just by itself with no lords or buffs) giving as good as it gets.

I'm not an expert on the Empire, but from reading their rulebook (I have most of the 8th edition ones on PDF) I have to say I didn't see any units that I'd enter into the competition here. Kudos to @NIGHTBRINGER for spotting their talent. They're definitely a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Double-header! Savage Orc Big'uns versus Har Ganeth Executioners!

Key rules in play:

• Savage Orcs: Choppas, Frenzy, Warpaint
• Executioners: Murderous Prowess, ASF and ASL cancel each other out

View attachment 82112

Coming into this match the Executioners were tied for third place, but that didn't stop the Savage Orcs from earning a much needed Victory. It was a close and bloody affair.

The Executioners were simply unable to break the Savage Orcs' Frenzy. Towards the end, those three attacks per model in the front rank really paid dividends. Still, not a terrible showing for the one attack per model Executioners, who all things considered are better suited at taking out enemy armour.

And with that...

View attachment 82113

And with that, we're down to a single matchup left in round 5. Skullcrushers vs. Beasts of Nurgle are up next!

Discuss!

And I was thinking that the Executioners would be wiped out by the multiple attacks of the Orcs.... Well, I think this combat turned out fairly accurately. Both are pretty hard-hitting units and they hit each other hard. In the real world, the Savage Orc unit would spend the rest of the game hiding out of range of missile weapons to deny the victory points to the other general so the more or less wiped each other out for gaming purposes.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Well, I was expecting the HPA to do well, I wasn't expecting the Demi-gryph Knights to almost beat it! Good on them! It's nice to see an Empire unit which (just by itself with no lords or buffs) giving as good as it gets.

Two strong units giving it their all. Shame for the Demigryphs, they could have used the points. Almost feels like it should have been a draw. The HPA is clearly very powerful in relation to its meager points cost.

And I was thinking that the Executioners would be wiped out by the multiple attacks of the Orcs

That was my assumption as well. I thought the Savage Orcs would have an easier time of it.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Last match of this round, and we have two powerhouses! Skullcrushers of Khorne vs. Beasts of Nurgle.

Key rules in play:

• Skullcrushers: MoK, Brass Behemoth
• Beasts of Nurgle: DoN, Daemonic, Poisoned Attacks, Random Attacks (D6+1), Regeneration

Two strong units, but in this matchup the Skullcrushers cruise to a deserving Massive Victory.

Each unit boasts an impressive array of attacks, each hits on 4's (Skullcrushers having the better WS, but the Beasts being -1 to hit) and both wound on 4's (S5 vs. T5 and S4 vs. T4). The Beasts benefit from having poison, but ultimately this contest was decided on saves. The Beasts' regeneration save is great, but the Skullcrusher's 1+ armour was proof against the S4 of the Beasts. Five sixths of the Beasts' offense simply evaporated on the mighty armour of the Skullcrushers. After that point, the Beasts just bleed away wounds due to Daemonic Instability.



That completes round 5. Each competitor has now fought 5 of their 15 matches.

Any shifting thoughts on the Beasts of Nurgle or the Skullcrushers?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Here are the standings precisely one third of the way through the tournament:



For you White Lion haters (p.s. I don't like them either), they're just one bad matchup away from falling out of the top eight.

I must say that based on the current standings, the Beasts of Nurgle have had the toughest schedule to date. They have faced 4 out of top 5 leading units (K'daai Destroyer, Witch Elves, Chaos Trolls and Skullcrushers).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Fun Facts!


Here is a table of the peak Strength values (including weapon bonuses) of each unit in the tournament:




So out of the sixteen units in the tournament, eleven have an effective strength value of 5 or 6. Only five units fall outside of this range!

 

[Imrahil]

Who's ready for another match? Demigryph Knights vs. Hell Pit Abomination!

Key rules in play:

HPA: Stubborn, Regeneration, Special Close Combat Attacks


View attachment 82104
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Talk about a close fight. The HPA survives the fight with 0.9 wounds remaining. The Demigryphs were able to put up a just slightly better fight than the Skullcrushers had, but in the end it wasn't enough.

The HPA is doing quite well for itself in the tournament. It currently sits at 4 wins and 1 loss. Only the mighty Witch Elves have been able to humble it up until now. The HPA currently sits in a three way tie for third place. It would seem that the Skaven can build themselves a pretty good monster too. As for the Demigryphs, they slip into the bottom 8 of the tourney. I'm curious to see if they can turn it around.

Our table now looks like this...
View attachment 82106

Only two matchups remain in round 5!

Please share your thoughts!

Well fought and interesting fight!
This shows once again that even 1 wound dealt by shooting or magic is from great importance on the outcome of the battle.

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Killer Angel]

The mournfang cav. starts to feel the incoming presence of the arachnarok. Will they be able to keep it at bay?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Well fought and interesting fight!
This shows once again that even 1 wound dealt by shooting or magic is from great importance on the outcome of the battle.

Grrr, Imrahil

That's a good point. Many contests are quite close, and small changes can have a big influence on the eventual outcome. It also shows the power of Hex and Augment spells, as it often doesn't take that much to alter the end result.

The mournfang cav. starts to feel the incoming presence of the arachnarok. Will they be able to keep it at bay?

I think so. Your pick seems destined to hold last place.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Let us being round #6. To start us off, we've got a couple of units from the bottom 8, the Arachnarok Spider versus the Hammerers.

Key rules in play:

• Arachnarok Spider: Natural Armour (4+), Poisoned Attacks (Spider only), Stubborn, Venom Surge
• Hammerers: ASL, Hatred (Orcs & Goblins), Stubborn

Let @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl rejoice... the Dwarfs have picked up a much needed Massive Victory. Not only that, but it was pure domination as they actually wiped out the Spider completely (doing an extra 1.3 wounds for good measure), no break tests required.

The S6 from the Hammerers was golden; allowing them to wound effectively and completely bypass the Spider's armour save. 21 attacks, with hatred and at S6 was simply too much for the struggling Spider.

The Spider goes back to its losing ways, and the Hammerers get a solid boost in the standings!




How are we feeling about the Hammerer's triumphant massive victory? Do you think they can start to rise in the rankings or was simply a matter of their opposition in this particular matchup?

 

[Killer Angel]

How are we feeling about the Hammerer's triumphant massive victory? Do you think they can start to rise in the rankings or was simply a matter of their opposition in this particular matchup?

the match-up helped them a lot. But on the other side, they are build for such a fight so we cannot say it was mere luck. i expect them to rule this kind of confrontation.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Let us being round #6. To start us off, we've got a couple of units from the bottom 8, the Arachnarok Spider versus the Hammerers.

Key rules in play:

• Arachnarok Spider: Natural Armour (4+), Poisoned Attacks (Spider only), Stubborn, Venom Surge
• Hammerers: ASL, Hatred (Orcs & Goblins), Stubborn

View attachment 82203

Let @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl rejoice... the Dwarfs have picked up a much needed Massive Victory. Not only that, but it was pure domination as they actually wiped out the Spider completely (doing an extra 1.3 wounds for good measure), no break tests required.

The S6 from the Hammerers was golden; allowing them to wound effectively and completely bypass the Spider's armour save. 21 attacks, with hatred and at S6 was simply too much for the struggling Spider.

The Spider goes back to its losing ways, and the Hammerers get a solid boost in the standings!

View attachment 82204


How are we feeling about the Hammerer's triumphant massive victory? Do you think they can start to rise in the rankings or was simply a matter of their opposition in this particular matchup?

First off, I rejoice with @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl in the win for the Dwarves! Huzzah!

Yes, this is definitely a fight that they were built to rule. And rule they did. I like the fact that they only took (basically) 25% casualties which means in the real world they would be up for another hard-pressed fight in this fictional O&Gs battle.

I definitely did not see the Arachnarok being last when I suggested the name for the competition. It's funny that when I read over the rules, it is an impressive monster, not the least of which is it's movement and ability to get to the right place and the right time which (lets face it) is probably the most important part of any combat match-up: You want to choose your fight, when you want it and where you want it.

Or as my friend says, "Battles are won in the movement phase". In all the games I've ever done, there is nothing that makes me doubt this piece of data. As long as you include the deployment phase as part of the movement as that is a key pivotal moment when you either set yourself up for a good fight, or mess up your own plans by placing incompatible units together (or those that will hamper the other's movement).

To answer @NIGHTBRINGER's question, I don't see them moving up in the rankings. The striking last point of the heavy weapons (despite their medium level armour) is a critical point in a match-up where so many units either have a high initiative or ASF.

As much as I love the Dwarves, I don't see them moving up very much.

As we've said about others (and as I've mourned about the Mournfang [sniff, sniff]), there's no shame in being last on this list since it is the best of the best.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

the match-up helped them a lot. But on the other side, they are build for such a fight so we cannot say it was mere luck. i expect them to rule this kind of confrontation.

Agreed. This is the ideal type of matchup for them. They are designed to dominate such confrontations.

Yes, this is definitely a fight that they were built to rule. And rule they did. I like the fact that they only took (basically) 25% casualties which means in the real world they would be up for another hard-pressed fight in this fictional O&Gs battle.

Very true, that unit of Hammerers is still very much combat effective, especially as they are also stubborn + leadership 9.

I definitely did not see the Arachnarok being last when I suggested the name for the competition.

It's probably pretty safe to assume that they will end up at the bottom of the barrel (albeit the best of the best barrel)

Or as my friend says, "Battles are won in the movement phase". In all the games I've ever done, there is nothing that makes me doubt this piece of data. As long as you include the deployment phase as part of the movement as that is a key pivotal moment when you either set yourself up for a good fight, or mess up your own plans by placing incompatible units together (or those that will hamper the other's movement).

Outside of a few rare exceptions, this pretty much sums it up!

To answer @NIGHTBRINGER's question, I don't see them moving up in the rankings. The striking last point of the heavy weapons (despite their medium level armour) is a critical point in a match-up where so many units either have a high initiative or ASF.

Striking last with only T4 and 5+ armour to keep you in the game is a tough position to be in, especially with such elite level competition.

As much as I love the Dwarves, I don't see them moving up very much.

Not to worry, the "better" Dwarfs (a.k.a. the Chaotic kind) are representing themselves far more successfully in the tourney!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

After the Hammerer's dominant win, I was expecting some kind of celebratory post by @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl . Alas, as they say the show must go on. Next up we have two monsters that are both on 4 fight win streaks.

K'daai Destroyer versus Hell Pit Abomination!

Key rules in play:

• K'daai Destroyer: Unstable, Unbreakable, Flaming Attacks, Blazing Body, Bound Fire Daemon, Frenzy (D3 Attacks)
• Hell Pit Abomination: Regeneration, Stubborn, Special Close Combat Attacks

Well that was... decisive! The HPA's four fight win streak comes to an end and the Destroyer picks up its fifth Massive Victory in a row!

The Destroyer is the hard counter to the HPA in every possible way. Its S7 is perfect for wounding the HPA's T5. Its flaming attacks are the perfect counter to the HPA's regeneration. Defensively, the Destroyer's ability to force the HPA to re-roll successful wounds and its 4+ ward save makes it all but impervious to the HPA's attacks. And to top it off, the Destroyer has the better initiative so it gets to go first.

But NIGHTBRINGER I hear you say, "the HPA is at a 90 point disadvantage". Not wanting to leave any room for doubt, the Chaos Dwarves tip the scales in the other direction...

Spoiler: Now it's time to show off!

What's better than a single Destroyer taking on two HPAs?... THREE HPAs! Not in succession, but simultaneously! 3 HPAs weighing in at a combined 705 points versus a single K'daai Destroyer at 325 points....



(note, rather than alter the HPA's attacks column, I just tripled its special attacks probability, which has the exact same effect)

I think the point is made. Don't bring a HPA to a K'daai fight!



On the plus side for the HPA, its only two losses thus far are to the current top two contenders.


Is there a worst mismatch than this one? Do you see a future combination of contenders that may be more lopsided? Other thoughts?

 

[Wyvernaarch]

Ahh, it's always great to see a proper adversary squashed by fine dwarven gromril! Yet I would not raise my hopes in case of Hammerers, competition there is really tough. They still have good match-ups against expensive armored opponents, but I expect them to slightly shift near their current position.
I would also like to suggest running calculations of the last match with Abomination having Warpstone Spikes upgrade, giving it Magic Resistance and magical attacks. Not much, but it can change Massive Victory to Victory, I think. Or at least satisfy our curiosity.