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Tutorial Seraphon List for Battletome 2.o

anyone noticed that bastilodon on save 1 ignore all rends?
 
Ustyk said:
anyone noticed that bastilodon on save 1 ignore all rends?
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I have heard this interpretation. Admittedly I am not very familiar with all the nuances of AoS ruleset, so can you explain this to me?

Why is it ignore all rend, vs just an extra pip of rend control?

i.e. if bastiladon at full health has to roll for a wound from a -3 rend weapon, why is it’s save characteristic not 4+?
 
The modificators are lowering results on dices in this case rend. The rules says that you can't lower it less then one so if you got save one modificators dont apply. There is still risk you can roll one (becouse 1 on save allways fail) but with mistic shield you can allways chance for reroll + heal of engine of the gods, spell and thunderquake battalion.... Just Damn
 
once you got dmg (mortals or just ones) you are geting save 2+ witch is taking rend
 
Ustyk said:
The modificators are lowering results on dices in this case rend. The rules says that you can't lower it less then one so if you got save one modificators dont apply. There is still risk you can roll one (becouse 1 on save allways fail) but with mistic shield you can allways chance for reroll + heal of engine of the gods, spell and thunderquake battalion.... Just Damn
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totally get it now. 1+ is significant
 
LizardWizard said:
Equilibrium, Tempest, and Apotheosis are all useful.
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Yes, but there's a problem of limited slots and urgency of casts.

For example, Slann can cast 3 spells but in my games I often find him casting arcane bolt because he has nothing else to do. Skinks, on the other hand, can cast only one spell, but may carry two useful ones. For example, I want to cast Hand of Glory, Celestial Harmony and Control fate in the same hero phase, but I have only Starpriest and Starseer. Slann, meanwhile, has apotheosis, but no units are damaged yet, so the potential is wasted. And if my large blobs die, I have no need in Harmony anymore. I'd gladly shift it for Extend Astromatrix, for example, but Skinks cannot do such tricks. That's what I mean.
 
NecridHydra said:
I think you need to redo the list. Knights are 100points instead of 80.
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Good catch.

The list actually adds up to 2k and requires no adjustment. I just brainfarted and wrote the old points in due to habbit. They now show correctly.
 
Nart said:
Yes, but there's a problem of limited slots and urgency of casts.

For example, Slann can cast 3 spells but in my games I often find him casting arcane bolt because he has nothing else to do. Skinks, on the other hand, can cast only one spell, but may carry two useful ones. For example, I want to cast Hand of Glory, Celestial Harmony and Control fate in the same hero phase, but I have only Starpriest and Starseer. Slann, meanwhile, has apotheosis, but no units are damaged yet, so the potential is wasted. And if my large blobs die, I have no need in Harmony anymore. I'd gladly shift it for Extend Astromatrix, for example, but Skinks cannot do such tricks. That's what I mean.
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This is at least minimized by the ability for the Slann to swap spells at the end of your hero phase. So, starting with Stellar Tempest or Equilibrium for the early turns and then switching to Apotheosis when you think you will need to heal makes it at least usable.
 
I think my lists will always try to have 2 skink casters when possible. One with hand of glory and one with battleshock immunity. I just need to buy a starseer now, rather than have to fish out 260 pts for my oracle each game (please bring his cost down at some point, GW)
 
Alladin the Paladin said:
I think my lists will always try to have 2 skink casters when possible. One with hand of glory and one with battleshock immunity. I just need to buy a starseer now, rather than have to fish out 260 pts for my oracle each game (please bring his cost down at some point, GW)
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I know right. I would consider the Trog at 200 points.
 
Yeah. His damage output is a bit low for the price, one cast really hurts him, and he has no unique command ability. The one thing going for him is that his warscroll spell is the same as Slann/Kroak, so at least you can use his cast for the Battletome spells... o_O
 
Alladin the Paladin said:
I have heard this interpretation. Admittedly I am not very familiar with all the nuances of AoS ruleset, so can you explain this to me?

Why is it ignore all rend, vs just an extra pip of rend control?

i.e. if bastiladon at full health has to roll for a wound from a -3 rend weapon, why is it’s save characteristic not 4+?
Click to expand...

Ustyk said:
The modificators are lowering results on dices in this case rend. The rules says that you can't lower it less then one so if you got save one modificators dont apply. There is still risk you can roll one (becouse 1 on save allways fail) but with mistic shield you can allways chance for reroll + heal of engine of the gods, spell and thunderquake battalion.... Just Damn
Click to expand...
Actually a 1 does not always fail in the bastis case. The rule that ones always fail actually says and "unmodified roll of 1 fails". Because of this if the attack has rend it will not fail since although the rend has no effect it is still technically modifying it. And since the basti chart says saves on a 1+ it saves. So units with rend cannot hurt the bastiladon right now, yet units without rend can.
 
Unmodifyed 1 allways fail. Modificators apply after throw so you will allways fail at one, but with save 1 you wont lower result to get 0 or - 1 to make it fail thanks to rules. So if first stages of bastilodon he ignores rend.
 
Ustyk said:
Unmodifyed 1 allways fail. Modificators apply after throw so you will allways fail at one, but with save 1 you wont lower result to get 0 or - 1 to make it fail thanks to rules. So if first stages of bastilodon he ignores rend.
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Is there anywhere in the rules says that rend can't reduce save to 0? Because some people in my chat saying that if we can have save of 7+, then save of 0 is possible.
 
Dreamkeeper said:
Is there anywhere in the rules says that rend can't reduce save to 0? Because some people in my chat saying that if we can have save of 7+, then save of 0 is possible.
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Okay. There is no Such a thing as save 7.you can boost save up to 6 which allways save.
 
Okay let me explain this way

Save 1+ is autopass save so no rend can touch it, but you still need to roll becouse any unmodifyed 1 o save allways fail. Same as 6 on hit allways hit
 
Ustyk said:
Okay. There is no Such a thing as save 7.you can boost save up to 6 which allways save.
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This is not true. Only rolls of hit and wound always succeed on unmodified 6. You also can rise roll results above 6 and reduce characteristics to 0 or below.
 
Ustyk said:
Okay. There is no Such a thing as save 7.you can boost save up to 6 which allways save.
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There are 7+ saves.

The Lord Castellant's Lanterns ability specifically mentions a save roll of 7 or more.

Not sure this impacts the argument about Bastiladons though. A one would fail because of the rule of one. The argument though is that the rule of one is ignored because warscroll rules over ride the rule of one. Point in case, Lord Kroak's Celestial Deliverance. I still land on the side that the 1 succeeds as a roll, but fails as a save.
 
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