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8th Ed. New Lizardman army book and info

So the two best models, the Troglodon and High Priest, become somewhat defunct via a notably poor point sink and a deceptive name.

Part of me is still holding onto the hope that they somehow got it wrong and there is a Lord level mage, that was the main thing that inspired me to rethink my army lists.

The swarm news is interesting however! I just hope they turn out to be less expensive than the current iteration.
 
sigh... i'll never field carnosaurs nor troglodons. Maybe the basti...
i think the only very good new thing we have are the rippers. Situational but good for their role. If GW wants to sell these monsters we need scout saturation, vanguard spam and TOUGH MONSTERS. Not big, squishy and overpriced useless ovesized lizards -.-
 
Tough monsters ey...welp, looks like stegadons for me!

And to a lesser extent Bastiladons. I mean, making jungle swarms is super easy, just get a bunch of 40mm bases, make a bunch of green stuff sausages, plug 'em on there, then paint them. You don't even need to add eyes or anything, maybe a tongue? Super easy.
 
What on earth are you going to use jungle swarms for when they are competing for special points?
 
Assuming you wnat an ark of sotek surely you only need to buy just 1 base of jungle swarms inorder to start them ticking over even 2 one off bases is quite usefull

this all assumes you wnat the ark of sotek whch proberly means a themed army
 
GCPD said:
What on earth are you going to use jungle swarms for when they are competing for special points?
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Buy one base, use ol' Bastie to buff it up to a few more bases, then just have it in CC with whatever unit I want to die, and all my units have poisoned attacks!
 
I have been staying pretty positive about all of this until now but there are some things really pissing me off, mainly, all of the new units seem to be a complete let down in terms of playability. Seriously going to tell me a lizard as big as a house has the same S value as a saurus warrior...wtf GW? The balls they have to release a "skink high priest" and it not be a lvl 3 or 4 caster. I dare say they were purposely getting our hopes up just to dash them on that one. Eotg got nerfed hard. And back to the bastiladon, only 4W??!! I really wanted that model to be the saving grace of all the new stuff. Rant complete....for now. Someone respond with a bunch of positive stuff to make me feel better.
 
Because it's always the same thing when an AB comes out. People only see bad changes and not the good, because what they used to play won't be as powerful as it was.
BUT there are many powerful things in the new AB. Much balanced.
 
Demelain said:
This just in from warseer

Kroxigor are back to S5. 25 Skaven Slaves.

Skink cohorts can be upgraded to have poison close combat attacks

Skinks can now channel Direct Damage as well as magic missiles

Slann still infantry, but can't be thunderstomped.

Ancient steg gives units within 6 6+ ward with the engine. Also choose a Lore and it's 1 easier to cast. This stacks.

Stegs - one of the upgrades gives it's impact hits D3 W's special rule.. That is good with D6+ 1 impact hits monstrous cav/infantry killer

Bastilodon - S4 T5 4W's 3 attacks 2+ Save
Beam of Chotex is a bound spell 3 range 24 - roll a D6 1 D3 S3 hits, 2-3 D6S4 4-5 2D6 S5 roll a 6 2D6 S6 & -1WS & BS till next magic phase
75 Skaven Slaves for a Bastilodon.
Inititative bonus doesn't stack. Saaad face.
For the Snakes, the ranged bit is range D6". every unit with D6" gets 2D6 st2 hits. Also work in combat. All swarms with 6" get a new base on a 4+

Wandering Deliberations 15 Skaven Slaves - Slann knows all 8 sig spells from rule book lores
Soul of stone 12.5 Skaven Slaves - allows the Slann to add or subtract 1 from the miscast result instead of original
Slann 12.5 Skaven Slaves more basic and doesn't come with any Disciplines.
Slann can only go in second rank in temple guard unit. Always passes LOS.


Some magic items -

Egg of Quayno - roll a D6 one use on a 4+ does 2D6 S5 hits on a unit in combat with bearer 1-3 not as good
Stegadon helm +1 save +1 T D3 impact hits

Razordon - Grapeshot @ st4. reroll arty dice on stand and shoot

Cold One Cav area few points cheaper and Cold Ones themselves have 2 attacks.

A mate has the book. Just answered a few of the first question that came to my mind.
Last edited by Rosstifer; 31-07-2013 at 05:16.

Edit : also seems like no lord level skink caster
Nice new info
Click to expand...


Everithing sounds good! I LIKE it!
 
stormtruperTK41 said:
I have been staying pretty positive about all of this until now but there are some things really pissing me off, mainly, all of the new units seem to be a complete let down in terms of playability. Seriously going to tell me a lizard as big as a house has the same S value as a saurus warrior...wtf GW? The balls they have to release a "skink high priest" and it not be a lvl 3 or 4 caster. I dare say they were purposely getting our hopes up just to dash them on that one. Eotg got nerfed hard. And back to the bastiladon, only 4W??!! I really wanted that model to be the saving grace of all the new stuff. Rant complete....for now. Someone respond with a bunch of positive stuff to make me feel better.
Click to expand...

Sorry to say it but there isn't really any positive stuff. It's a balls-up of epic proportions. Hmmm, let's see:

The Good:
Predatory Fighter. Nice little buff.
D3 wounds option on Stegadon.
Bastilodon not too pricey.
The Horn of Kygor.
Salamanders S4 weapon.

The Bad:
Kroxigor got much needed S buff, but remain overcosted.
EotG RUINED.
Laser cannon is rubbish.
CoC pay 4 pts for spear WHAAAAAAT?!
CoC are STILL too expensive
No unbidden Carnosaur
Carnosaur is GARBAGE
Troglodon is GARBAGE
1 use only Trog roar LOL
Ripperdons are GARBAGE
Bastilodon T5 and 4 wounds LOL
SLANN RUINED BEYOND ALL HOPE
No casting bonuses for Slann LOL
No other lvl 4 option so you still have to take the overpriced Slann anyway LOL
NO EXTRA CORE OPTIONS WHAAAAAAT?!
Lacklustre magic items, nothing powerful like the other books
Temple Guard still too expensive
SKINKS RUINED WITH LD5
Skinks have to pay 2ppm for poison WTF

CRUDAAAAAAAAAAAACE! I WILL KILL YOU!

(yes I know Vetock wrote it but Cruddace helped him and blatantly ruined it cos they're not WoC)
 
the poison is for cc attacks, they have poisoned javs for free.
 
Knackaz said:
Also the Bastilidon when charged gives no rear or flank, also you allocate 1 of its attack to be S10 + 1 hit if on the rear (mind blank on the name)
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Sorry to be dim, but does this mean that when an enemy unit charges a Bastilodon in the flank/rear it does not get the CR bonus for a flank/rear charge? That is pretty nice.

I've got to say it feels like everything about this book was determined entirely randomly, the stats and rules seem bizarre and illogical and the points costs don't seem to reflect the effectiveness of the units they represent at all.
 
I just finished reading the warseer threads, and good lord they are all doom and gloom over there. They make it sound like the books author went over to each of their houses individually and killed their puppies and crapped in their cornflakes.

Everyone is ignoring the fact that we are getting this second hand and in peices and jumping to conclusions.

Sounds like our army is getting net weaker, yes, but I doubt we will be completely unviable. I will pass judgement after I play a couple games.
 
So, you think the 6+ ward from EotG works all the time for all units within 6" and also works in combat? That's not a terrible trade-off especially since it doesn't require a Skink Priest. Would be nice if it is worded that it stacks with Parry.....but I bet it doesn't.

But it looks like the EotG may have lost it's damage ability, or the guy leaking it just didn't notice it.
 
skillfull_dan said:
I just finished reading the warseer threads, and good lord they are all doom and gloom over there. They make it sound like the books author went over to each of their houses individually and killed their puppies and crapped in their cornflakes.

Everyone is ignoring the fact that we are getting this second hand and in peices and jumping to conclusions.

Sounds like our army is getting net weaker, yes, but I doubt we will be completely unviable. I will pass judgement after I play a couple games.
Click to expand...

That's is how it always is when a new book comes out it seems. The Internet collectively makes a snap judgment without having played any games with the new book. Some of the stuff that was just leaked on Warseer looks great to me. I'm more excited than ever to get this book.
 
A quick rebuttal for toubled_joe:

"The Bad":
Kroxigor got much needed S buff, but remain overcosted.---25 skaven slaves is not overcosted at all
EotG RUINED.---Not ruined, only different mechanics, it IS a rare unit.
Laser cannon is rubbish.---Looks pretty fun to me.
CoC pay 4 pts for spear WHAAAAAAT?!---yeah, you're right, 3 points would have been better
CoC are STILL too expensive---maybe, PF may save the day
No unbidden Carnosaur---so what? You get heros to ride it too!
Carnosaur is GARBAGE---slightly overcosted, maybe, garbage, no
Troglodon is GARBAGE---we'll see how it synergies with the list
1 use only Trog roar LOL--it's not a bound spell so it automatically occurs the turn you need it
Ripperdons are GARBAGE---maybe
Bastilodon T5 and 4 wounds LOL---2+ save though!
SLANN RUINED BEYOND ALL HOPE---maybe with the point increase, he may be unrecognizable
No casting bonuses for Slann LOL---ugh, really bad for a high point cost model that needs to buy a large unit to protect him
No other lvl 4 option so you still have to take the overpriced Slann anyway LOL---surprising a lvl 3 option wasn't available at least
NO EXTRA CORE OPTIONS WHAAAAAAT?!---yeah! WTF!
Lacklustre magic items, nothing powerful like the other books---we'll have to wait and see
Temple Guard still too expensive---TG are takeable now, don't forget PF
SKINKS RUINED WITH LD5---this was coming, they never should have been Ld6 last edition
Skinks have to pay 2ppm for poison WTF---spot on
 
troubled_joe said:
The Good:
Predatory Fighter. Nice little buff.
D3 wounds option on Stegadon.
Bastilodon not too pricey.
The Horn of Kygor.
Salamanders S4 weapon.

The Bad:
Kroxigor got much needed S buff, but remain overcosted.
EotG RUINED.
Laser cannon is rubbish.
CoC pay 4 pts for spear WHAAAAAAT?!
CoC are STILL too expensive
No unbidden Carnosaur
Carnosaur is GARBAGE
Troglodon is GARBAGE
1 use only Trog roar LOL
Ripperdons are GARBAGE
Bastilodon T5 and 4 wounds LOL
SLANN RUINED BEYOND ALL HOPE
No casting bonuses for Slann LOL
No other lvl 4 option so you still have to take the overpriced Slann anyway LOL
NO EXTRA CORE OPTIONS WHAAAAAAT?!
Lacklustre magic items, nothing powerful like the other books
Temple Guard still too expensive
SKINKS RUINED WITH LD5
Skinks have to pay 2ppm for poison WTF
Click to expand...
Doom and gloom

here is what I am seeing:
The Kroxigors went up in strength, and down in cost, I dont see that as a negative

Engine of the gods is cheaper, weaker, doesnt require a character, and the priest cannot be killed seperately rendering it useless. Also it looks like these may be an important part of improving our magic phase since they give stack in giving a slann +1 caster level (from what warseer said)

Laser cannon is S5 small template, dont know point cost for it.

CoC are definitely still too expensive

Carnosaur and trog, i'm still waiting to see the army book, but the rumors are bad. :beaver:

ripperdons actually sound good, 5 attacks each, killing blow, immune to panic

I dont see how bastilodons are bad at t5 4w and 2/3 the price of a stegadon and have a laser beam.

Skinks leadership 5 sucks, 6+ scaly skin is good, I will still take them

Skinks have to pay 2 points to get melee poison attacks

Additionally skink chiefs dropped in price a LOT, making them viable, and swarms how have the ability that they grant poison to other units that in in the same melee with them, which is absurdely good in my opinion. Scar vets dropped in price too, temple guard dropped in price too, saurus get a tiny buff too, razordons get a big buff too, razordons get a price drop too.
 
Whats really depressing is that Hardyworld comes in to say "looks its not that bad" and about half way down the list it turns into either "we will have to wait and see" or "yea that pretty bad". I should just sell everything and play WoC to make my life easy.
 
hardyworld said:
A quick rebuttal for toubled_joe:

"The Bad":
Kroxigor got much needed S buff, but remain overcosted.---25 skaven slaves is not overcosted at all agreed
EotG RUINED.---Not ruined, only different mechanics, it IS a rare unit.
disagree, if the rumoured points cost is true you're paying points to trade away some weapons that you might use for a ward save bonus that is too short range to be of much use and will never make any appreciable difference to units that do manage to get in range
Laser cannon is rubbish.---Looks pretty fun to me. its a bound spell, and so can therefore se safely ignored on the grounds that if you do deign to waste PD on it it will definitely be dispelled and you will have the thanks of your opponent for not casting a spell from your L4 which might actually have gone through
CoC pay 4 pts for spear WHAAAAAAT?!---yeah, you're right, 3 points would have been better 3 would still have been too much, 2 would have been acceptable and in line with every other comparable unit in the game
CoC are STILL too expensive---maybe, PF may save the day not really, I think they may be viable as long as you convert them to hand weapons and don't bring spears
No unbidden Carnosaur---so what? You get heros to ride it too!
Carnosaur is GARBAGE---slightly overcosted, maybe, garbage, no read that as even more overcosted than last edition, and didn't get any better, what is especially odd is that from the leaked Krok Gar profile it looks like the carno doesn't even have pred fighter, which is somewhat ironic as it is probably the one model in the army that most deserves that rule
Troglodon is GARBAGE---we'll see how it synergies with the list
1 use only Trog roar LOL--it's not a bound spell so it automatically occurs the turn you need it agreed, something not being a bound spell is a very good thing indeed
Ripperdons are GARBAGE---maybe
Bastilodon T5 and 4 wounds LOL---2+ save though! and fairly cheap for a monster, the stats are somewhat illogical when compared to the Stegadon though
SLANN RUINED BEYOND ALL HOPE---maybe with the point increase, he may be unrecognizable
No casting bonuses for Slann LOL---ugh, really bad for a high point cost model that needs to buy a large unit to protect him
No other lvl 4 option so you still have to take the overpriced Slann anyway LOL---surprising a lvl 3 option wasn't available at least
NO EXTRA CORE OPTIONS WHAAAAAAT?!---yeah! WTF! actually I think the more appropriate response is LESS CORE OPTIONS THAN LAST EDITION WTF!!!
Lacklustre magic items, nothing powerful like the other books---we'll have to wait and see
Temple Guard still too expensive---TG are takeable now, don't forget PF people need to stopping lauding predatory fighter like it solves all the armies issues, it gives you+1 attack 16% of the time and most of the units that have it have deplorably low WS, at the very best its an amusing gimmick, its not going to win combats for you
SKINKS RUINED WITH LD5---this was coming, they never should have been Ld6 last edition
Skinks have to pay 2ppm for poison WTF---spot on no, 1pt would be spot on, they are still WS2, S3, this upgrade is just an invitation to waste points, but on the oth hand you don't lose anything by not taking it
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you.

I think LM's days of playing in the top tier are well and truly over, we should be able to compete on fairly even terms with armies like Tomb Kings, vampires and O&G though.
 
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