7th Ed. lizardmen in 8ed, what do you think?

[Walgis]

i intepretate the rumored rule of braing ranks only with two ranks like this:
you need to have 2 ranks of infantry (US10) for cavlary one ranks of 5 (US10) and in this way steg could negate ranks becouse US10. this should be the way it works, othervise i dont see using cavlary any more becouse theyre dead meat with no purpose, infantry will be better in all ways, charge almost the same, costs less, more atacks. then again its just my interpreted rules.

with the new rumors skink skirmishers are back on track. no -1 for moving for shooting thats a great thing, we can march and shoot that makes unreal gunline for us. the other rule that boosts up sirmishers is that enemy witch charged skirmisher shall be pooted in line with them not vise versa. so with skinks is everything good. but i still would prefer non skirmishing skinks with blowpipes.

Magic is going to be awsome!!! just we will need to take 4 power stones just incase we roll double 1 for power dice. but +4 for level and plus dice for casting will maka an unstopable casting. with just one dice from slann we can cast a 11+spell with no problem.

still waiting for something good to come up for stegs and eotg. becouse now eotg is just a total suport againts high armour but with a very high cost.

 

[Scarecrow]

We really don't need a gun line. and with only 12" range, that isn't a very effective one. March and shoot? Never seen that before, doesn't make much sense to me, but...if it's there I'll use it. Does that mean salamanders can move 12" and still fire their breath weapons? A 14-22" panic causing template of doom!

And maybe I stand corrected on magic. Have to try it out for myself.

and what does this mean. I don't understand what you're trying to say:
"the other rule that boosts up sirmishers is that enemy witch charged skirmisher shall be pooted in line with them not vise versa."

 

[strewart]

i intepretate the rumored rule of braing ranks only with two ranks like this:
you need to have 2 ranks of infantry (US10) for cavlary one ranks of 5 (US10) and in this way steg could negate ranks becouse US10. this should be the way it works, othervise i dont see using cavlary any more becouse theyre dead meat with no purpose, infantry will be better in all ways, charge almost the same, costs less, more atacks. then again its just my interpreted rules.

Don't think so. GW is completely removing the unit strength rule in general, so there will be no bonus combat res for outnumbering and no autobreaking from fear when outnumbered. Yep, heavy cavalry take a big hit not being able to negate ranks. As will stegadons.

Really our only benefits are saurus with spears attacking with full attacks from 3 ranks and the free 90º wheel with a musician.

Might have changed in the last day or two, but rumours said spears in subsequent ranks will only ever get 1 attack maximum.. The only multi-attack spear infantry in the entire game I believe is saurus, so thanks GW. I'm not sure how the second rank for everyone is working out, whether that is all attacks or just one, so we could get 2.5 ranks attacking or essentially just 2 and the same as now except we need that third rank to get the same number of attacks.

 

[Scarecrow]

Don't think so. GW is completely removing the unit strength rule in general, so there will be no bonus combat res for outnumbering and no autobreaking from fear when outnumbered. Yep, heavy cavalry take a big hit not being able to negate ranks. As will stegadons.

So what are Skaven supposed to do if their greatest advantage is stripped? They can't fight, that's for sure, but now they can't outnumber either? This does not compute.

And I some how missed the rule where Heavy Cav and Stegs can't negate ranks. The more rumors (or facts, don't know which) I hear the less I like this new edition.

Might have changed in the last day or two, but rumours said spears in subsequent ranks will only ever get 1 attack maximum.. The only multi-attack spear infantry in the entire game I believe is saurus, so thanks GW. I'm not sure how the second rank for everyone is working out, whether that is all attacks or just one, so we could get 2.5 ranks attacking or essentially just 2 and the same as now except we need that third rank to get the same number of attacks.

Too bad. I was looking forward to 26-31 attacks with a 15 block of saurus. Sad.

 

[strewart]

So what are Skaven supposed to do if their greatest advantage is stripped? They can't fight, that's for sure, but now they can't outnumber either? This does not compute.

And I some how missed the rule where Heavy Cav and Stegs can't negate ranks. The more rumors (or facts, don't know which) I hear the less I like this new edition.

How is a +1 bonus for outnumbering the biggest advantage of Skaven? So they won't get that anymore, no loss. Their leadership comes from ranks, which are staying, you still get rank bonuses. Also, there is a horde rule for units that are 10 wide, this will be easy for Skaven. I don't know what it does for sure, either an extra rank attacking or extra combat res. There are enough extra bonuses for Skaven.

Technically heavy cavalry can still negate ranks, just they need one of their own which means you need at minimum a unit of 10 (5x2) which is simply not worth it in small games. They might be ok in huge battles, but (and this is the main problem I see with GW trying to favour more numbers in armies and bigger units) in small battles (well... Up to 3k so not small) you simply can't justify the points to make heavy cavalry 2 ranks. In a 2k game you will never be able to afford to make saurus 10 wide, it is extremely unweildy. Nor will we have the points to buy more than 2 maybe 3 units at all, unless MSU, so it doesn't really do much in general despite GW's aims.

 

[n810]

Here's some good news...

Hey guys I have actually read the rule book and held it. Here are some things I got out of it with the 15 minutes I could read it. The rules are very sparse and random because I was looking for rules that would help my Lizardmen army build. So here is what I have got. You guys can take this however you want it, I know these are official rules. Hope you guys enjoy.

Heavens magic is just awesome.

Heavens perk is any flyer hit by heavens magic is damaged and then takes an additional D6 strength 4 hit.

1: Blizzard spell didnt really get a good read on what it does but I got the others.

2ortent of Far is back but it is called something different

It casts on a 6 any friendly unit within 24 can re roll all 1s to hit wound and armour save. Or the buffed one casts on a 12 and any unit within the 12 inch radius gets the benefit.

3:Is a Wind spell:

This spell casts on a 7

It pushes a enemy unit back D3+1 inch directly away from the wizard if the unit hits any terrain it takes D6 S 3 hits. If the unit hits another unit both units take D6 S 3 hits. The stronger version casts on a 14 but pushes units back D6+2 Inchs away.

4: This spell is like portent of far but is a curse.

Can be cast on a enemy unit within 24 the unit must re roll any 6's to hit, wound, or armour save. This spell can be beefed up to effect any enemy unit within 12 inch radius.

5: Urions Thunderbolt is still there it is D6 strength 6 hits.

6: Is Comet which casts on a 12

The comet hasnt changed much. Once cast it cannot be dispelled. The Range is 2D6" plus an additional inch for every counter on it. The Damage caused by it is 2D6 strength is 4 but is plus 1 stronger for every counter on it. It comes down on a 4+. If it does not come down place a marker.

The Stronger Version is cast on 24+ Same as before but it automatically starts with 2 markers on it. And everyturn it does not come down an additional 2 markers are put on it.

7: Chain Lightening

It casts on a 15+ does D6 strength 6 hits on a unit within 24 of the mage. After you determine the results roll a dice on a 3+ you may choose a unit within 12 of the previous unit hit and then that unit is hit by D6 strength 6 hits. This continues until you roll a 1 or 2.

Random Rules:

Skinks can move and shoot blow pipes without taking a penalty of -1 due to they have quick shot.

Stegadons are awesome now. They have the Chariot rule as well as Thunderous Stomp. So they get impact hits for being a chariot. Then the Stegadons attacks. Then Thunderous Stomp which is always strike last but automatically hitting D6 attacks at the monsters strength. This can only be done to infantry sized creatures.

Kroxigors can use the ability Stomp which is the same as Thunderous stomp but only 1 auto hit instead of D6.

Magic levels only determine how many spells you can use thats it. Everyone generates the same amount of dice no matter what level.

Javilines and blow pipes can always stand and shoot.

Parrying can only be used against other Infantry Type models.



You may not parry Impact Hits, Stomped, Thunderous Stomp.

Oh and there is no blow pipe entry in the book I really dont know why. They have every other weapon in the book but no blow pipes.

Skirmishers do not see 360 anymore but have to face the direction they want to shoot. The easiest way for this is to put a small arrow beside the unit portraying which way they are all looking. So you dont have to individually turn each model to face the proper direction.

Magic Items:

Bane Blade 5 Points

- Any monster or character that takes an unsaved wound from this weapon perminantly loses 1 attack to a minimum of 1

I cant remember the names

- 60 point sword gives you plus 3 attacks

- 70 point sword gives you plus 3 strength it does not count as a great weapon.

There are now paired magic items. I got a glance but nothing concrete. This allow you the benefit of two hand weapons but count as magical.

Everyone knows this magic item already.

It is a 100 point magical Enchanted item. WatchTower

It is a actual watch tower that must be constructed by the player using it. If the player does not have an adequate Tower or Building the item may not be used. After deploying terrain and armies. The Player may activate the magic item and may place the watch tower anywhere in his deployment zone. It counts as a Defended building.

And again you dont have to believe me I really dont care. But I have read and touch the book. My buddy does have it. He will not put it online because he does work for the company.

Thanks for reading it and I will sned you more as soon as I read more.

 

[strewart]

Awesome, thanks for posting! Good to see some further confirmations. I look forward to hearing more as you read it.

 

[Walgis]

how about skirmishers? they have a fixed formation?

Everyone generates the same amount of dice no matter what level.

how much is that? 2d6 for all?

how about %? 25% lord +25% hero or only 25% for charecters? can you take 2 slanns for 2000pt?

how about negating ranks? (this is very important)
and how about spear saurus? gets 2A or only 1A?

please look for this next time you get to read please!!!!

 

[Caneghem]

Magic seems like it is getting super-powerful, I can see the Slann with the Cupped Hands becoming a horrifying sight on the battlefield. I'm thinking you roll 6 or 7 dice at the big comet and hope for a double 6. The comet comes down and can wipe out a significant chunk of an enemy army, THEN you transfer the miscast onto an enemy mage. The rest of the battle you just roll 2 or 3 dice at spells and come out ahead.

Pack your dispel scrolls!

Alternatively, you can just take a handful of skink priests and use them as kamikazees, keep them away from the rest of the troops where they won't harm them when they blow up. Go for broke casting comet, and if they blow up, who cares? Obviously we'll have to get all the details, but for now magic seems to be getting really really powerful.

 

[asianavatar]

how much is that? 2d6 for all?

New poster but been lurking for a while. Used to hang out at the pyramid vault forum.

From seeing the rulebook quickly, magic works like this.

2D6 for power dice. Highest dice is the opponents dispell dice.
For each wizard in the army, on a 6 one extra power dice is generated. This goes the same for the opposing army and dispell dice.

Wizard level adds to the casting result. So level 4 wizard adds +4.

Miscast happens on irresistible force (double 6's) but don't remember if there is some other criteria for it or if its automatically.

Also each lore has a special action that happens for each spell cast. Example I think life allows the caster to regain one wound for each successful spell cast.

 

[serbianwolf]

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259481

some explanations

 

[Scarecrow]

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259481

some explanations

Thanks for the link. Cleared up some questions.

 

[Walgis]

Lore of Light - The Wind of Hysh

Special Bonus: If targeted on a undead or daemonic unit, spells from the lore of light deal an additional D6 hits.

* Basic Spell: Ray of Light: Magic Missile. D6 S4 hits to a unit within 24", causing flaming attacks. The scaled up version has an increased range and strength.

1: Blinding Light: Unit Buff. Affects one friendly unit within 12", all to hit rolls against this unit have a -1 modifier. All auto-attacks or auto-hits have to roll a 4+ or are wasted. May be extended to all units in 12"

2: As fast as Light: Unit Buff. Choose one unit within 24". It has Weapon Skill 10 and Initiative 10.

3: Beacon of Hope: Unit Buff. Rally 1 fleeing unit. Targeted unit automatically passes all Leadership tests until casters next magic phase.

4: Amynotoks Web: Hex. Targeted enemy unit has to pass a Strength test for each action they want to take (move, shoot, cast spells, pursue, flee, strike in cc, etc.) If they fail they may not perform the intended action and suffer D6 S4 hits instead. Lasts until casters next magic phase.

5: Exorcism: Direct Damage. Deals 2D6 S4 hits, against which all successful Ward saves must be re-rolled. For each wizard other than the caster using the lore of light within 12", the strength is increased by 1.

6: Temporal Warp: Unit Buff. Targeted friendly unit doubles its movement characteristic, increases its Attacks by 1 and gains the ASF special rule until casters next magic phase. The scaled up version is for all friendly units within 12"



Lore of Life - The Wind of Ghyran

Special Bonus: Every time the caster successfully casts a spell from the Lore of Life he can restore a wound to one model within 12”

* Basic spell: (name). Shooting -1 to hit modifier and -1 leadership. If the enemy didn’t use BS they are 4+ to shoot.

1: Forest Lord: Magic missile. Magic missile attack to any enemy unit within 18" of a forest. Or D6 strength 5 hits or 2d6 strength 5 hits to a unit in the forest.

2: Regeneration (name?): Unit Buff. Regeneration (6+) to one unit within 12”

3: Master of Stone: Unit Buff. +2 Toughness to one unit.

4: Regrowth (name?). Unit Buff. One unit regains D3+1 wounds/models, just like invocation (champ first, then musician/standard, then rank and file. Characters are selected separately)

5: Throne of Vines: Caster Buff. If this is successfully cast it increases the effect of other lore of life spells made by the caster: Regeneration becomes 5+, Master of Stone becomes +4 Toughness!!!, Forest Lord all hits become Strength 6, Regrowth regains D6+1 wounds. Something for the 6th spell as well.

I heard something about an immunity to miscast on a 2+ for the lore of life, but I don’t know if this is their 6th spell, a remains in play caster buff.

well i think slann will ove these two lores i like the idea of having horde saurus with ASF +1A and WS10 I 10 a killer unit, but also i like the idea of having+2/+4T and revive wounded saurus d3+1 or d6+1 that will be amazing

i will definetly going to have 2x slanns with these lores theyre going to rock and meiby some skink priests for urannos thunderblot which is awsome aswel

what do you think?

 

[Caneghem]

well i think slann will ove these two lores i like the idea of having horde saurus with ASF +1A and WS10 I 10 a killer unit, but also i like the idea of having+2/+4T and revive wounded saurus d3+1 or d6+1 that will be amazing

i will definetly going to have 2x slanns with these lores theyre going to rock and meiby some skink priests for urannos thunderblot which is awsome aswel

what do you think?

Yeah, those look like some cool lores. Lore of Life is going to be crazy... imagine bringing back Temple Guard? So far though, I think Heavens is one of the most diverse. Being able to push units with the wind spell is massive... depending on the angle you could potentially obstruct the enemy movement phase. Blast a screening unit backward into the unit it is screening, and cause damage to both! Not to mention, an extra D6 str 4 for any flyers damaged by any heavens spell. Of course if my Slann took heavens, the skink priest would probably take just uranon's thunderbolt, which seems pretty dang good in itself. I could also save 35 points on the skink priest without losing all that much. The level 1 spell is Blizzard, which is going to be great vs. shooty armies. -1 to hit for ranged weapons and warmachines only shoot on a 4+ is massively good, and won't hurt the Lizardmen too bad at all. After all, our shooting only ever really needs to hit on 6 for that poison.

 

[Walgis]

i definetly love the new lores, but some rules makes me worry, but oh well have to wait for the book to actualy come out and we will see how good they playtested this time

 

[Wolf]

well i think slann will ove these two lores i like the idea of having horde saurus with ASF +1A and WS10 I 10 a killer unit, but also i like the idea of having+2/+4T and revive wounded saurus d3+1 or d6+1 that will be amazing

i will definetly going to have 2x slanns with these lores theyre going to rock and meiby some skink priests for urannos thunderblot which is awsome aswel

what do you think?

Yeah, those look like some cool lores. Lore of Life is going to be crazy... imagine bringing back Temple Guard? So far though, I think Heavens is one of the most diverse. Being able to push units with the wind spell is massive... depending on the angle you could potentially obstruct the enemy movement phase. Blast a screening unit backward into the unit it is screening, and cause damage to both! Not to mention, an extra D6 str 4 for any flyers damaged by any heavens spell. Of course if my Slann took heavens, the skink priest would probably take just uranon's thunderbolt, which seems pretty dang good in itself. I could also save 35 points on the skink priest without losing all that much. The level 1 spell is Blizzard, which is going to be great vs. shooty armies. -1 to hit for ranged weapons and warmachines only shoot on a 4+ is massively good, and won't hurt the Lizardmen too bad at all. After all, our shooting only ever really needs to hit on 6 for that poison.

Bringing back TG would be awesome, but they're going to go down more easily as well I'm afraid. Read on warseer yesterday that if you have a weapon other than a hand weapon, you have to use it So no more 2+ armour save (or 3+ and 6+ ward save)

 

[strewart]

Wow I haven't heard that one... Seriously messes with the versatility of some units. What if you have two weapons that aren't hand weapons? Then you pick between them I guess?

 

[Walgis]

something is wrong with that. we should get to choose what wep we like to take to the battle. it would be logical if you buy something you have to use it but not if you have 2 options.
or meiby in erreta they will corect TG and now we could buy halebards. it would be coul becouse they should get cheaper.

 

[Caneghem]

Yeah, the whole thing of not being able to choose weapons per combat is a bit limiting. But the good news is, it seems like the rules for spears will be "fight in two ranks". The third rank gets a single attack because of the new supporting attacks rule. Spearmen seem like they're going to be pretty sweet after all! 5 wide block of 20 gets 25 attacks. They get 25% more attacks, compared to HW+SH getting 50% more attacks. Imagine casting a strength boost on those spear saurus...or putting in a scar-vet BSB with the reroll attacks banner... or both!

I had a friend glancing through the new book today, he confirmed that fear is now going to be tested before every round of combat, and if you fail you don't get to attack at all! Put kroxigors in those skink blocks folks!

 

[Dan Heelan]

I thought that ref spears fighting in two ranks but someone has pointed out that apparently the "fight in 2 ranks" rules allows for extra "supporting attacks", making it still 1 attack per man :-( Next time I am in shop I will have a look!

D