7th Ed. lizardmen in 8ed, what do you think?

[Arli]

I agree. GW has two goals: 1. Profit
2. Customer satisfaction

They will do what makes them the most profit first, then follow it with customer satisfaction. It would make more sense for them to incorporate the LOTR rules with Fantasy so that they cut the amount of money that they have to put into developing those rule sets. That would also allow a FB player to effortlessly jump to the other system. I would even go so far as to say that they may move both LOTR and FB closer to the 40k rules for the same reason.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kurlin]

I agree. GW has two goals: 1. Profit
2. Customer satisfaction

They will do what makes them the most profit first, then follow it with customer satisfaction. It would make more sense for them to incorporate the LOTR rules with Fantasy so that they cut the amount of money that they have to put into developing those rule sets. That would also allow a FB player to effortlessly jump to the other system. I would even go so far as to say that they may move both LOTR and FB closer to the 40k rules for the same reason.


Just my 2 cents.

Honestly the different rule sets differentiate the games. If the rules are so similar I wouldn't have a reason to play one over the other, besides models/fluff (which would attract me whether the rules were similar or not). Is learning new rule set really that intimidating? I find it fun personally.

I just can't imagine that similar rule sets would attract players to other games. Maybe that is just me though.

 

[serbianwolf]

do you think that there will be new models of cold ones in the new edition? something like the new DE cold ones?

 

[Kurlin]

do you think that there will be new models of cold ones in the new edition? something like the new DE cold ones?

This is a revamp of the core rules, not the lizardmen. We likely wont get any new models till our new book is released, which will be a long wait.

 

[Walgis]

i quote like our colde one, they are more junglely look. DE coldones look more agresive. but theres no harm to take some DE cold one and swap them with our coldone

 

[Arli]

Honestly the different rule sets differentiate the games. If the rules are so similar I wouldn't have a reason to play one over the other, besides models/fluff (which would attract me whether the rules were similar or not). Is learning new rule set really that intimidating? I find it fun personally.

I just can't imagine that similar rule sets would attract players to other games. Maybe that is just me though.

I agree with you. The corporate level guys that make decisions regarding profit are the ones that make this type of decision. I hope it does not go that way myself, I am looking forward to learning 40k soon (both of my kids have 40k armies).

 

[Caneghem]

My own speculation is they are trying to soften the rules to speed up/simplify gameplay. This sort of move says to me they are trying to draw in more of the 40K crowd into also playing fantasy. I really hope the true line of sight thing is tossed in the garbage where it belongs... shooting works just fine the way it is and doesn't need to get any better.

I will probably not read the rumors for another couple weeks, because it seems like they need to do a little housecleaning with all the things on there. I think creating controversy is part of the marketing tactics, they don't want people to know exactly what's in the book before it comes out... Why? So that you have to buy it to find out!

 

[Kurlin]

My own speculation is they are trying to soften the rules to speed up/simplify gameplay. This sort of move says to me they are trying to draw in more of the 40K crowd into also playing fantasy. I really hope the true line of sight thing is tossed in the garbage where it belongs... shooting works just fine the way it is and doesn't need to get any better.

I will probably not read the rumors for another couple weeks, because it seems like they need to do a little housecleaning with all the things on there. I think creating controversy is part of the marketing tactics, they don't want people to know exactly what's in the book before it comes out... Why? So that you have to buy it to find out!

Well I think we are all pretty much gonna buy it anyway, regardless of the rumors. It is kind of a must have anyway. And like I said if the fluff and models don't already draw you in then I don't see new rules making someone take the plunge.


Well the latest 25% heros and 25% lord rumor I just can't see, I mean does that change anything? At 2250 who used more than 560 on a lord(not counting named chars)? I was actually looking forward to the 25% limit on characters Yes we lost Slann + EOTG but it opened up so many points for me to play with.

The stupid rulebook just needs to come out already. I am tired of all this speculation and people panicking.

 

[Caneghem]

Well I think we are all pretty much gonna buy it anyway, regardless of the rumors. It is kind of a must have anyway. And like I said if the fluff and models don't already draw you in then I don't see new rules making someone take the plunge.


Well the latest 25% heros and 25% lord rumor I just can't see, I mean does that change anything? At 2250 who used more than 560 on a lord(not counting named chars)? I was actually looking forward to the 25% limit on characters Yes we lost Slann + EOTG but it opened up so many points for me to play with.

The stupid rulebook just needs to come out already. I am tired of all this speculation and people panicking.

What? Only 1125 points for characters!? I really hope that one is wrong too, I was starting to like the idea of getting away from hero hammer. With the magic phase limited to 12 power dice and choosing spells though, I can see a standard setup being Slann, flying skink priest, and a couple scar-vets. I think with the way magic is changing you won't need to have more magic power than that, though Slann/EotG would still be viable. All speculation upon speculation of course.

 

[Xlcontiqu]

I have just begun ignoring all the rumours now. There are soooo many out there, I really do not believe even 10% of them are true. We still have a while until the rulebook comes out and there is way too much speculation right now.

I remember reading a ton of rumour for Lizardmen, when our new army book was coming out and really none of them were that correct.

 

[walach]

I have just begun ignoring all the rumours now. There are soooo many out there, I really do not believe even 10% of them are true. We still have a while until the rulebook comes out and there is way too much speculation right now.

I remember reading a ton of rumour for Lizardmen, when our new army book was coming out and really none of them were that correct.

can we get this bolded in massive text at the front of the post...?


i remember reading that lizardmen were loosing the cold-blooded rule, and i commented at the time, '... but that's the lizardman rule!'

 

[Kurlin]

I have just begun ignoring all the rumours now. There are soooo many out there, I really do not believe even 10% of them are true. We still have a while until the rulebook comes out and there is way too much speculation right now.

I remember reading a ton of rumour for Lizardmen, when our new army book was coming out and really none of them were that correct.

can we get this bolded in massive text at the front of the post...?


i remember reading that lizardmen were loosing the cold-blooded rule, and i commented at the time, '... but that's the lizardman rule!'

If only it were that easy to ignore them

 

[Kurlin]

So something I haven't really seen mentioned is the changes to breath weapons. Where as before everyone wanted the salamanders fire to be a breath weapon to march and shoot, now I am sure as hell glad it is not a breath weapon.

Monsters with a breath weapon may use it once per battle in either the shooting phase (no partials under the template) OR once in combat, with 2D6 hits with the breath weapons strength in combat. This is in initiative order. At the moment it looks like it will be in addition to regular attacks, not instead of.

It would have seriously hurt salamanders if their attack was a breath weapon, so perhaps they were aware of this change back when 7th edition lizardmen came out.

 

[OmegaRed]

I think you're giving GW too much credit. No partials will be nice though, lots of chances to cause panic tests.

I'm looking forward to Saurus combat effectiveness, more massed units. I've already got 2 plus temple guard and that may just increase.

I've heard this bad rumour about leadership tests to fly, wouldn't this screw up terradons?

 

[Kurlin]

I've heard this bad rumour about leadership tests to fly, wouldn't this screw up terradons?

I have not heard that one, and I highly doubt that will happen. The rumors I heard that might hurt terradons effectiveness a little is the LD test to march if you are being march blocked. That way we cant just fly behind the enemy lines and march block everyone. And of course units can reform faster apparently now too(free with musician according to rumors) so you will have to be a bit more careful anyway.

And Also the movement 10 march 20 for fliers.

 

[The Lybithian]

I doubt they would nerf our Cold-Blooded rule, that's our armies unique trait different from all other races. Just like DE have eternal hatred, HE have ASF, Beastmen have Primal fury, etc.

 

[strewart]

So I have just thought about the stepping up rule, ie. that 2 ranks will fight back regardless of casualties. How does this effect our stegadon? Now, it barrels in with impact hits, skinks, and steg attacks, leaving nothing to fight back. In 8th, it will do that then two ranks will strike back at the t2 skinks and eat them. Coupled with that, if US as a rule is gone and stegadons can no longer negate ranks when they flank charge.. They are going to have a very hard time busting a unit when facing 3 ranks, standard and some kills.
Then in subsequent turns without the impact hits, they are even worse off and will probably lose more often than win.

Investing that many points is a bit too much for just a support unit that basically needs something else to help it win combat, and thats just against standard infantry not the elite stuff.

 

[Caneghem]

So I have just thought about the stepping up rule, ie. that 2 ranks will fight back regardless of casualties. How does this effect our stegadon? Now, it barrels in with impact hits, skinks, and steg attacks, leaving nothing to fight back. In 8th, it will do that then two ranks will strike back at the t2 skinks and eat them. Coupled with that, if US as a rule is gone and stegadons can no longer negate ranks when they flank charge.. They are going to have a very hard time busting a unit when facing 3 ranks, standard and some kills.
Then in subsequent turns without the impact hits, they are even worse off and will probably lose more often than win.

Investing that many points is a bit too much for just a support unit that basically needs something else to help it win combat, and thats just against standard infantry not the elite stuff.

There are a couple other things that will somewhat mitigate these new disadvantages. First, infantry only get to fight in two ranks when fighting to the front, otherwise infantry only get to attack in one rank back. So keep your stegadon as a flanker primarily, or use it to attack smaller units. Second, there is now the "crush them" and "destroy them" rules. So the stegadon will get an extra D6 attacks with the "always strike last" rule. As long as you don't plow him into the front of ranked infantry you should be alright. Also remember... stubborn units can now test using the general's leadership! Imagine the stubborn steg with Ld9. It makes the ancient stegadon more appealing than the normal steg, for its extra armor and base strength 6 for those extra D6 attacks.

On the other hand this is bad news for skink characters riding on top of stegadons, since there is really no way to cut down on the number of attacks directed at them from counterattacks.

 

[strewart]

Yeah it becomes even more dangerous for the engine to be anywhere near combat, and while you don't want to becharging it headlong in I definitely think it must see combat to justify its very high point cost. Maybe when combined with burning alignment and a flank charge it will be enough to reduce a few attacks coming back by getting rid of a rank or two.

 

[Scarecrow]

Especially with the point Stewart brought up it seems, through the rumors, that the Lizards are taking a big nerf. With skirmishers having to deploy in a block formation with 1" spacing between models and only getting 90º LOS, that, in it's self, nullifies half our list. We really should have fast cav because of this. Magic being nerfed and High Elves still being able to "ignore" the worst parts means EOTGs really aren't worth it with the % limitations and slanns...lose allot of effectiveness, while Elves still get to prance around and be prissy. Really our only benefits are saurus with spears attacking with full attacks from 3 ranks and the free 90º wheel with a musician.

Again this is all based off of the rumors (can't remember when the book comes out so my apologies if it already has) so hopefully some of these won't come true. But from a hoards perspective, O&G got boosted and Skaven are going to love the new charge rules.

One rumor I do like, very much, is that artillery can shoot over units. Makes allot of historical and physical sense and makes a hoardy skaven artillery army so awesome!!!