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8th Ed. The BEST close combat units in all of Warhammer.

NIGHTBRINGER said:
Pretty quiet on this thread... seems like I'm the only one around... the show goes on...

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The Arachnarok Spider puts on a classic Arachnarok Spider performance in its grand finale!

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The Chaos Warriors have now officially "earned" sole possession of 15th place. A shameful showing.

The White Lions end up tied with the Hammerers at -8 points.
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Sorry buddy, have some stuff to deal with IRL (see Dogs & Cats thread)

I'll respond with my full enthusiasm as soon as I can!
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Time for some Chaos on Chaos violence!

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The Chaos Warriors finish the tournament in second last place. Only the White Lions have a mathematical chance to join them at second from the bottom, but in order for that to happen, the White Lions would have to lose massively to the Arachnarok Spider of all things! :p Pretty sure that isn't going to happen.
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Well truly this is a surprise to me. It’s everyone knows, I entered these guys as a unit I genuinely thought could win.

As discussed a lot on this thread, doesn’t take away from the fact that they are a pretty fantastic core choice and are very dangerous, but can be mulched in certain match-ups.

But still, SECOND LAST!?!? Definitely didn’t see that coming.

NIGHTBRINGER said:
As for the Trolls, their bid for second place stays alive as they currently sit tied for the position with the Skullcrushers and Demigryph Knights. It all comes down to who will perform the best in their final matchup:
  • Skullcrushers face the K'daai Destroyer
  • Demigryphs face the Savage Orc Big'uns
  • Chaos Trolls face the Witch Elves
If any of these three win their final matchup, it will mean that the Witch Elves and HPA have no mathematical chance to attain third place (which while highly improbable is still mathematically possible at this point).
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You mean the Trolls bid for Third right?

As I said earlier, my guesstimate is that the K’Daai will win (not massive), the Demigryphs will win (only just, the Savage Orcs will make them work for it) and the Trolls Regen will mean they will just barely beat the girls.

We’ll see if I’m right!

NIGHTBRINGER said:
Pretty quiet on this thread... seems like I'm the only one around... the show goes on...

View attachment 92243

The Arachnarok Spider puts on a classic Arachnarok Spider performance in its grand finale!

View attachment 92244

View attachment 92245

The Chaos Warriors have now officially "earned" sole possession of 15th place. A shameful showing.

The White Lions end up tied with the Hammerers at -8 points.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I called this one earlier... (White Lions BOOOOO!!!)
 
Lizards of Renown said:
You mean the Trolls bid for Third right?
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Yup... you're correct. I'll go back and fix that. Good catch.

Lizards of Renown said:
But still, SECOND LAST!?!? Definitely didn’t see that coming.
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I didn't think they would do particularly well in the tournament, but I never would have guessed second last. They are a good unit, but I think many people overestimate their abilities. People see their solid stat line and sometimes forget about the extremely steep points cost associated with those fancy stats.

Those MoN Halberd Chaos Warriors are weighing in at 19 points a wound (model). Trolls for instance come in at 11.7 points/wound. Beasts of Nurgle cost 15 points/wound. Skullcrushers come in at 26 points/wound, but that wound is sitting behind a 1+ armour save on a M7 + swiftstride model.

Lizards of Renown said:
You mean the Trolls bid for Third right?

As I said earlier, my guesstimate is that the K’Daai will win (not massive), the Demigryphs will win (only just, the Savage Orcs will make them work for it) and the Trolls Regen will mean they will just barely beat the girls.

We’ll see if I’m right!
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Some solid predictions.

The toughest one to call is the Witch Elves vs. Trolls. Whoever loses the first round loses the matchup.
 
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Sorry @Lizards of Renown , the Mournfang officially finish the tournament in sole possession of 14th place. They did have a few memorable moments at points throughout the tourney, and they always have their impact hits to fall back on.

5 Matches left to go!
 
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With that, the entire bottom half of the standings has been finalized. The Savage Orcs still have one match left, but regardless of the outcome, they will end up in 9th.

Any surprises?


Only 4 matches remain, which will finalize positions 2 through 7. The Beasts are guaranteed second place, but could still tied for the position mathematically (although extremely unlikely).
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
With that, the entire bottom half of the standings has been finalized. The Savage Orcs still have one match left, but regardless of the outcome, they will end up in 9th. Any surprises?
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The only surprise in looking over the list (for me) is the position of the WoC as I said above. Really wasn't expecting that.

NIGHTBRINGER said:
Only 4 matches remain, which will finalize positions 2 through 7. The Beasts are guaranteed second place, but could still tied for the position mathematically (although extremely unlikely).
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I think that third place will be a tie between the Chaos Trolls and the Demigryph Knights. I'm predicting a win for both of them (not massive) so equal footing on the podium.

I don't think that the K'Daai will lose to the Skullcrushers so they're not in the running IMHO.
 
Lizards of Renown said:
The only surprise in looking over the list (for me) is the position of the WoC as I said above. Really wasn't expecting that.
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The Black Guard finishing in 11th is surprising for me (I picked them to lose the tourney). I would not have predicted them to beat the CW, Mournfang or Hammerers.

At the very start of the contest, I would thought that the Mournfang would have fared quite a bit better. Even now seeing the huge separation between them and the the Demigryphs / Skullcrushers feels strange.
 
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We all knew it would happen, but it is now official, the Beasts of Nurgle finish the contest in second place... and with an extremely impressive 15 points. The HPA got really unlucky not to reach the regular loss threshold in this match. It ended up with 0.4 wounds left, and was assumed slain. At 0.5 wounds it would have been around for another round of combat, in which it would have dropped the Beasts to 7.9/16 wounds left, for a regular loss instead of a massive one. The HPA now waits on the Witch Elves matchup. It will most likely end the tournament in 7th place, but in the highly unlikely event that the Witch Elves were to loss massively, they would share joint custody of 6th place.
 
I'll say this as well, I definitely never expected the Beasts of Nurgle to come so high in the rankings, let alone 2nd place.

I had them crossed out as winners due to their measly S4. Obviously, they will grind/get stuck/lose in a match-up with 2+ or 1+ armour saves, but even then they'll keep the unit tied up for ages.

The normal weakness of Regen troops is countered by their daemonic 5+ save that they can fall back on if there are flaming attacks. Stomps, -1 to hit from MoN, monstruous infantry so they get to do up to 3 attacks from second rank...

I'm definitely seieng them in a new light now and they might just become a must-include option for my DoC army.

Awesome competition here @NIGHTBRINGER ! :D
 
Lizards of Renown said:
I'll say this as well, I definitely never expected the Beasts of Nurgle to come so high in the rankings, let alone 2nd place.

I had them crossed out as winners due to their measly S4. Obviously, they will grind/get stuck/lose in a match-up with 2+ or 1+ armour saves, but even then they'll keep the unit tied up for ages.

The normal weakness of Regen troops is countered by their daemonic 5+ save that they can fall back on if there are flaming attacks. Stomps, -1 to hit from MoN, monstruous infantry so they get to do up to 3 attacks from second rank...

I'm definitely seieng them in a new light now and they might just become a must-include option for my DoC army.

Awesome competition here @NIGHTBRINGER ! :D
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After seeing the results from the tournament, I think the Beasts of Nurgle are one of the single hardest units to counter on the table top. The Destroyer may be more destructive, but it is also far more easily neutralized.

Ask yourself this, what are the specific counters available to each army in order to bring down the Beasts? Artillery isn't especially effective against them. Most units can't contend with the CC defensive abilities. A Purple Sun would mess them up pretty badly. How would one defeat them with:
  • Chaos Dwarfs?
  • Bretonnia?
  • Lizardmen?
  • etc.

From the tournament we have seen at least three counters: WoC have Skullcrushers, Empire have Demigryphs and High Elves have the BotWD. I suppose a character with a 1+ re-rollable save would do the trick nicely (although not every army has access to that).


Killer Angel said:
Very interesting machup, mostly because the Soul Grinder and the Black Guards were running against each other, and with this the SG ends 1 points ahead of the BG.
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A fitting way to decide who finishes above the other. A classic final round head-to-head contest.
 
What a lot has been going on in the last 4 days... I had a long weekend and a lot of stuff to do ;)

I agree on the made choice for the Soul Grinder vs Mournfang episode mainly because of this argument:

NIGHTBRINGER said:
purposefully not including the champion in this matchup feels like list building in favour of the Mournfang for this specific match (which would be similar to removing ensorcelled weapons from the Skullcrushers to bypass the White Lions BotWD). This is something we decided against at the onset of the tournament.
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Pretty hurt by the Massive victory of the Demigryph Knights and the Black Guards, for the Witch Elves fall below the third place and are only to fall even more...

Grrr, Imrahil
 
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The Demigryph Knights put all doubt to rest and claim third place. Mathematically, they could still end up tied for third, but looking at the matchups, it seems extremely unlikely that either the K'daai Destroyer or the Witch Elves lose massively. So while not yet official, I think we can all feel pretty confident in assuming that the Demigryphs will have sole possession of the bronze medal. The battle for forth place is a different matter entirely.


I'm sure @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl will be unhappy to see the Empire claim third spot, but then again he also hates the Warriors of Chaos and the Witch Elves, so this was never going to turn out well for him. Sorry @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ! ;)


2 more matches left to go!
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
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The Demigryph Knights put all doubt to rest and claim third place. Mathematically, they could still end up tied for third, but looking at the matchups, it seems extremely unlikely that either the K'daai Destroyer or the Witch Elves lose massively. So while not yet official, I think we can all feel pretty confident in assuming that the Demigryphs will have sole possession of the bronze medal. The battle for forth place is a different matter entirely.


I'm sure @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl will be unhappy to see the Empire claim third spot, but then again he also hates the Warriors of Chaos and the Witch Elves, so this was never going to turn out well for him. Sorry @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ! ;)


2 more matches left to go!
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That went as I thought, but a little bit worse. Even S5 in a 1+ armour save combat isn't going to help you that much.

And another surprise! I would never have thought when they were entered the DK's had any chance and here they are in 3rd place!

I'm glad the Empire has a showing on the podium.

I think my earlier predictions still stand on the final matches.
 
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