AoS Fixing Serephon

[Erta Wanderer]

@Erta Wanderer that is some good stuff! I agree with most of it and I do have some alternatives for thought

So carnosaur Mount traits;
Raging frenzy: when in a blood frenzy, the carnosaur’s clawed forelimbs and jaws generate an extra attack on a 6+ to hit. These attacks cannot generate additional attacks.

ill run the math eny ideas what this should replace?

Blood chilling roar: d6 models flee in battleshock

the mane problem with this is it would also work on eleat units like storm fiends and kurnoths which makes this insanely powerful

And for the stegadon
Earth Shaker: Enemy models within 12” have -1 to hit in the shooting phase

most things have way more then 12" range for shooting or they are in melee our guard do this better

Two additional alliegence abilities;

Old one’s blessing:A unit or model can ignore mortal wounds or wounds on a 6+

all the heroes and most of the foot troops have this already

Cold blooded: when rolling for battle shock roll 3 dice and take the lowest 2 values

do you mean roll 2 dice and take the lowest? as is this is strictly worse then standered battle shock

And for alternative warscrolls, namely a few saurus
Saurus Oldblood on carnosaur

300

move*

bravery 10

wounds 12

save 3+


sunbolt gauntlet 4 18" 4/3/-1/1

Sunstone spear 3 2" 3/3/-1/d3

clawed forelimbs * 2" 3/3/-1/2

carnosaur’s bite * 2" 3/3/-2/3


Damage table

wounds 0-3,4-5,6-7,8-9,10+
move12” 12” 10” 8” 6”
claws4,4,3,3,2
jaws 5,4,4,3,2

abilities

pinned down: 2 claw hits, reroll failed jaw hits

blood frenzy: this model can run and charge in the same turn

blood roar: contest of dice roll, you win or draw d3 models flee

Hand of the Gods: on a 6+ to hit the attack instead inflicts a mortal wound.


Command Ability: 20 inch range seraphon heroes can make 2 extra attacks with a weapon of their choosing

so im all for the rend on the claws but im trying to avouide a role of on blood roar battle shock is realy hard to abuse and a ability that only wourks 55% of the time just feels bad to play with, rerolling bights with a 3+ is 50% better then what it was but with the next one it's acualy worse a 33% drop

The scar veteran

Saurus Scar-Veteran on carnosaur

280

move*

bravery 10

wounds 12

save4 +


Warblade. 6 1”. 3+/3+/-1/1

War Spear. 6. 2” 4+/3+/-1/1

Great Blade 3. 1” 4+/4+/-1/d3

clawed forelimbs * 2" 3+/3+/-1/2

carnosaur’s bite * 2"4+/3+/-2/3


Damage table

wounds0-3,4-5,6-7,8-9,10+
move12”,12”,10”,8”,6”
claws4,4,3,3,2
jaws5,4,4,3,2
abilities

pinned down: 2 claw hits, reroll failed jaw hits

blood frenzy: this model can run and charge in the same turn

blood roar: contest of dice roll, you win or draw d3 models flee

Stardrake Shield: ignore rend -1


Command Ability: select a seraphon unit within 18”. That unit can make an extra attack with a weapon of their choosing.

same as above but we already ignore rend -1 also im not suten what the comand ability does is it +1 to the atack profile or do they get to pile in again?

 

[Putzfrau]

And then we have the warriors
Saurus Warriors

120/450

Move 5”

Bravery 8

Wounds 1

Save 4+


Celestine club. 1, 1”, 3+/ 3+/ -1/ 1

Celestine spear 1, 2”, 4+/3+/ -1 / 1

Jaws and shield 1, 1”, 4+/4+/ -/ 1


Champion: +1 Celestine weapon attack

Shield: ignore rend -1

Drum: the unit may march at double move, no run or charge

Banner: -1 to enemy bravery in 8”

Celestial Cohort: If the unit has 20 or more models add one to the number of attacks for their Celestine weapons

This seems to make warriors strictly worse.

I'd rather have 40 at 330 with a 5+ save then 40 at 450 with a 4+.

Sure they maintain their +1 to hit buff even if they drop below 20 and have a rend (which you have anyway in sunclaw) but i dont know if thats worth the point increase.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

And then we have the warriors
Saurus Warriors

120/450

Move 5”

Bravery 8

Wounds 1

Save 4+


Celestine club. 1, 1”, 3+/ 3+/ -1/ 1

Celestine spear 1, 2”, 4+/3+/ -1 / 1

Jaws and shield 1, 1”, 4+/4+/ -/ 1


Champion: +1 Celestine weapon attack

Shield: ignore rend -1

Drum: the unit may march at double move, no run or charge

Banner: -1 to enemy bravery in 8”

Celestial Cohort: If the unit has 20 or more models add one to the number of attacks for their Celestine weapons

And finally saurus knights

Saurus Knights

120

Move 10”

Bravery 8

Wounds 2

Save +4


Celestine Lance 1, 2”. 4+/3+/-1/1

Celestine Blade 1, 1”. 3+/3+/-1/1

Coldone’s jaws 2, 1”. 4+/3+/-/1

Jaws and shield 1, 1”. 4+/4+/-/1


Champion: the unit champion makes an extra attack with their Celestine weapon.

Blazing Charge: when saurus knights equipped with lances attack after a successful charge, on 4+ to hit the attack inflicts a mortal wound.

Drum: The unit can add 1 to run and charge rolls

Banner: -1 to enemy bravery in 8”

why did you drop the breavery to 8? i replaced the bravery icon due to every one being imune do you have a plan for this one id love to hear your thoughts. the way you have blazing charge is ridiculously powerful a unit of 10 would be doing 5.5 mortals on top of everything else.

 

[Lizerd]

Yes the battle shock thing was a mistake/typo. The idea was you would roll 2 dice and discard the highest. Saurus warriors having 8 bravery and a better battleshock buff was designed to be somewhat of a balance, but I do get have a 10 bravery being a better idea. Now looking over your stuff for blood roar it is strictly more balanced.

With the scar vet it just means one more attack on the profile, but an additional round would be cool (although maybe unbalanced)

@Putzfrau noted, decreased to 100/360

 

[Lizerd]

As for banners, This is an idea here, so you roll a die if the unit in question is in Melee combat, on a 4+ it inflicts d3 mortal wounds?


We also could do some work on the artifacts

 

[Erta Wanderer]

As for banners, This is an idea here, so you roll a die if the unit in question is in Melee combat, on a 4+ it inflicts d3 mortal wounds?


We also could do some work on the artifacts

oh so like tzaangors that mite work although i like the movement shenanigans i have now we do a lot of positioning tricks as an army and having an irregular pile in is a much better buff then people think.

crap i forgot artifacts give me a moment ill fix that

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Artifacts

• Zoetic Dial Roll a d6 at the start of the battle. On the turn that corresponds to the number you rolled, this unit can attack in the charge phase If you roll a 6 you can choose which turn to use it.

• Incandescent Rectrices Roll a dice the first time this model is slain. On a roll of 1, it is slain as normal. On a 2+ or more it heals d6 wounds on a 6+ 2d6

• Blade of Realities Adds -2 to the rend of a weapon your hero uses.

• Light of Dracothion gives +1 to casts and unbinds

• Coronal Shield At the start of the combat phase, roll a d6 for every enemy unit within 6". On a 4 or higher, that unit gets a -1 to hit for the rest of the combat phase.

• Prism of Amyntok at the start of your movement phase, you can target an enemy unit within 8". On a roll of 1 it is struck with 1 mortal wound. A roll of 3-5 inflicts d3 mortal wounds and on a roll of 6 strikes d6 mortal wounds.

 

[Canas]

because teleportation is very powerful and should not be free it was one of my inishal worries it gives our current army the ability to stand up to things much stronger then us and we have bad warscrolls what ruin would we reak if we had things that could throw a punch.

Yeah, but now you have 2 costs. Which is a bit odd.

Teleport should be free for our army. It is Seraphon's whole shtick. I feel like LoSaT is at a good place after the GHB2019.

Meh, teleports/deepstrikes/whatever are weird in general with the 9" requirement. Half the time it's irrelevant cuz the thing you teleport shoots, or has a 50" charge due to the sheer amount of modifiers people stack on it, or it leaves the unit stranded in the middle nowhere, just sorta standing there for a turn. Really wish they'd change that so the disadvantage is actually consistently relevant for any unit/faction.

Yeah, I think all the buffs shouldn't be cheaply possible. I am still under the opinion that we need minor improvement to the units we already have. If units are buffed to the point that Allegiance abilites and the core of the army's identity has to be remedied to balance the army then the warscroll changes are too strong.

I think some minor mechanical changes to the allegiance abilities are probably going to be unavoidable. The core idea & identity shouldn't need changing. But especially summoning is going to need tweaks if our units actually get vaguely decent statlines. Spamming skinks with a decent statline would quickly become problematic. And if our update involves more than simple number changes it's all but a guarantee. Imagine what'd happen if we got some charge modifiers for our carnosaurs. Would be funny to have giant dinosauruses teleporting around eating what's in front of them only to poof out of existance and appear somewhere else before the enemy can counterattack.

 

[Canas]

Also @Erta Wanderer I'd suggest making seperate artifacts for skinks, saurus & slann. It'd allow you to make them fit their roles a bit more and opens up some fun options without leading to balance issues. Plus, it'd mean that there'd be more than 1-2 viable artifact for each...

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Also @Erta Wanderer I'd suggest making seperate artifacts for skinks, saurus & slann. It'd allow you to make them fit their roles a bit more and opens up some fun options without leading to balance issues. Plus, it'd mean that there'd be more than 1-2 viable artifact for each...

fair i threw those together in like 2 minuts before work ill put more thought into them when i have time. that sead i don't think skinks and slann need sepret ones they do the same thing for the most part.

 

[Canas]

Skink heroes also contains the Troglodon and EoTG. Those are fairly different from a slann Besides it makes balancing easier. They might be similar, but not the exact same. As an example, the general trait for a slann to be able to cast the skink spells wouldn't work on skinks. You can make up similar artifacts.

Plus, it's nice and fluffy.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Skink heroes also contains the Troglodon and EoTG. Those are fairly different from a slann Besides it makes balancing easier. They might be similar, but not the exact same. As an example, the general trait for a slann to be able to cast the skink spells wouldn't work on skinks. You can make up similar artifacts.

Plus, it's nice and fluffy.

alright give me a day or so ill have a sloe of them for you to look over and we can pick 18 (3 sets of 6) for others reading this feel free to make suggestions i would love to go over your ideas

 

[Lizerd]

I can get the saurus artifacts, I have a few ideas

 

[Erta Wanderer]

I can get the saurus artifacts, I have a few ideas

go for it im hoping for a bunch of options that we have to pair down

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Also @Erta Wanderer I'd suggest making seperate artifacts for skinks, saurus & slann. It'd allow you to make them fit their roles a bit more and opens up some fun options without leading to balance issues. Plus, it'd mean that there'd be more than 1-2 viable artifact for each...

There's quite the list of artifacts in the 6th Edition Lizardmen Army book for WFB that would work well as inspiration here, including adaptations of the sacred plaques the Slann could take.

These are most of them as presented in that army book.

Sacred Plaques (Slann only)
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones: grants accompanying units 5+ ward save against ranged attacks.
Divine Plaque of Protection: grants +2 bonus to ward save against ranged attacks
Plaque of Dominion: grants +1 dice for the old magic system (could be reworked into a casting bonus)
Plaque of Tepok: grants additional spell for the slann to use.

Magic Weapons:
Blade of Revered Tzunki: +1 Strength, no armour saves allowed
Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent: +2 attacks
Staff of the Lost Sun: 3 ranged attacks at Strength 5
Piranha Blade: unsaved wounds deal twice as much damage
Blade of Realities: (already in AoS), denied the use of ward saves, dealt twice as much damage to daemons
Dagger of Sotek: (skink only) Killing Blow ability, causes fear in Skaven
Sword of the Hornet: user strikes first
Burning Blade of Chotec: -2 AP, flaming attacks

Magic Armour
Sacred Stegadon Helm: (skink only) +1 armour save, +1 leadership (bear in mind that this was from well before seraphon were made into daemons with 10 bravery)
Shield of the Mirrored Pool: deflects back magic missile attacks on 4+
Maiming Shield: +1 attack to bites and shields

Enchanted Items
Gleaming Pendant of Chotec: (one use only) enemy units in base contact strike last in combat phase
Blood Statuette of Spite: (one use only) May freely cast a spell, must immediately make toughness tests until pass or slain.
Cloak of Feathers (already in AoS as one of the skink priest's options, allows user to FLY)
Charm of the Jaguar Warrior: increased movement to 9"
Curse-Charm of Tepok: (one use only) forces opposing spellcaster to re-roll miscast result.
Bane Head: nominates enemy character at start of battle to inflict twice as much damage.
Dragonfly of Quicksilver: +1 on Dice roll to determine who gets to deploy their scouts first.
Venom of the Firefly Frog: poisoned, magical attacks.

Arcane Items:
Rod of the Storm: magic missile 2d6 Strength 3 hits (4 if target has 4+ armour or better) within 18", unit that suffers wounds from rod must take an immediate bravery check.
Cube of Darkness: (one use only) up-scaled dispel scroll that affects all spells in play, ends magic phase on 4+.
Diadem of Power: Bearer can save up to 2 power dice for use in the following turn.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

There's quite the list of artifacts in the 6th Edition Lizardmen Army book for WFB that would work well as inspiration here, including adaptations of the sacred plaques the Slann could take.

These are most of them as presented in that army book.

Sacred Plaques (Slann only)
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones: grants accompanying units 5+ ward save against ranged attacks.
Divine Plaque of Protection: grants +2 bonus to ward save against ranged attacks
Plaque of Dominion: grants +1 dice for the old magic system (could be reworked into a casting bonus)
Plaque of Tepok: grants additional spell for the slann to use.

Magic Weapons:
Blade of Revered Tzunki: +1 Strength, no armour saves allowed
Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent: +2 attacks
Staff of the Lost Sun: 3 ranged attacks at Strength 5
Piranha Blade: unsaved wounds deal twice as much damage
Blade of Realities: (already in AoS), denied the use of ward saves, dealt twice as much damage to daemons
Dagger of Sotek: (skink only) Killing Blow ability, causes fear in Skaven
Sword of the Hornet: user strikes first
Burning Blade of Chotec: -2 AP, flaming attacks

Magic Armour
Sacred Stegadon Helm: (skink only) +1 armour save, +1 leadership (bear in mind that this was from well before seraphon were made into daemons with 10 bravery)
Shield of the Mirrored Pool: deflects back magic missile attacks on 4+
Maiming Shield: +1 attack to bites and shields

Enchanted Items
Gleaming Pendant of Chotec: (one use only) enemy units in base contact strike last in combat phase
Blood Statuette of Spite: (one use only) May freely cast a spell, must immediately make toughness tests until pass or slain.
Cloak of Feathers (already in AoS as one of the skink priest's options, allows user to FLY)
Charm of the Jaguar Warrior: increased movement
Curse-Charm of Tepok: (one use only) forces opposing spellcaster to re-roll result of magic.
Bane Head: nominates enemy character at start of battle to inflict twice as much damage.
Dragonfly of Quicksilver: +1 on Dice roll to determine who gets to deploy their scouts first.
Venom of the Firefly Frog: poisoned, magical attacks.

Arcane Items:
Rod of the Storm: magic missile 2d6 Strength 3 hits (4 if target has 4+ armour or better) within 18", unit that suffers wounds from rod must take an immediate bravery check.
Cube of Darkness: (one use only) up-scaled dispel scroll that affects all spells in play, ends magic phase on 4+.
Diadem of Power: Bearer can save up to 2 power dice for use in the following turn.

woo this is a great start ill have to translate them but thanks for finding this i have no acses to fantasy stuff

 

[ChapterAquila92]

woo this is a great start ill have to translate them but thanks for finding this i have no acses to fantasy stuff

Cool!

There's also a few more magic items listed in the book, including 4 banners. Unfortunately, I can't recall them straight off the top of my head, and I won't be able to access my copy of the book until the end of the week.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Cool!

There's also a few more magic items listed in the book, including 4 banners. Unfortunately, I can't recall them straight off the top of my head, and I won't be able to access my copy of the book until the end of the week.

don't worry this is a marathon not a sprint we have until the next book comes out to work on this so by my guess about 14 months

 

[Erta Wanderer]

ok lets see what i can do


Sacred Plaques (Slann only)
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones: grants accompanying units within 3" a 5+ shrug against ranged attacks.
Plaque of Dominion: (could be reworked into a casting bonus) can do +1 to cast and unbinds
Plaque of Tepok: a slann holding this artifact knows the following spell
Ruination of cities: cv8 pick a terrain piece withing 16" all units within 3" take d3 mortal wounds and the terrain piece is removed

Magic Weapons:
Blade of Revered Tzunki: damage done with this weapon are mortal wounds
Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent: +2 attacks
Staff of the Lost Sun: 3 ranged attacks at 3/4/-/1
Piranha Blade: unsaved wounds deal twice as much damage
Blade of Realities: make weapon rend -3
Dagger of Sotek: (skink only) natural wound rolls of 6 remove a non hero or behemoth model
Sword of the Hornet: user strikes first
Burning Blade of Chotec: rend becomes -2 and if a unit takes damage from this attack it can not heal until your next hero phase

Magic Armour
Sacred Stegadon Helm: (skink only) units within 6" have the following on a battle shock roll of 1 return d3 models
Shield of the Mirrored Pool: deflects back mortal wounds on a 4+
Maiming Shield: +1 attack to bites and shields to units within 3"

Enchanted Items
Gleaming Pendant of Chotec: (one use only) enemy units in base contact strike last in combat phase
Blood Statuette of Spite: you can make a choise to make 1 spell a turn immune to unbind attempts if you do the wizard takes a d3 mortal wounds this damage can't be shrugged
Charm of the Jaguar Warrior:increased movement by 3"
Curse-Charm of Tepok: (one use only) forces opposing spellcaster to reroll a spell cast roll
Bane Head: inflict twice as much damage. wow this is strong how to balance this ok it can only be equipped by foot heroes there you go canas your heroes can kill stuff
Dragonfly of Quicksilver: no they alredy removed this from age of sigmar we are not putting it back in.
Venom of the Firefly Frog: if a unit takes damage from this weapon reduse there save by 1 for the rest of the combat phase

Arcane Items:
Rod of the Storm: arcane bolt does d3 mortals and d6 on a 10 to cast.
Cube of Darkness: this is a stormcast void scroll
Diadem of Power: +1 spell cast a turn

and a few i made my self sorry no names yet
saurus
resplendent banner ad 2" to to all ranged effects granted by abilities such as command abilities or auras
+1 to hit
every time a command point is spent roll a dice on a 5+ you get it back
slann
reroll 1 cast attempt per turn
if this unit would be killed by an attack roll a dice on a 5+ it teleports away with 1 health remaining
this unit is ethereal
skink
this unit activates at the start of combat
gain the use of the chameleons ambush ability
units within 3 of this modle bring back a model at the start of your hero phase

 

[Canas]

For ruination of cities, I wouldn't remove the terrain piece. also possibly consider making it more powerfull, the SCE hero with a trumpet can do the same thing, which seem a bit lame Other than that cool.

To be honest, I'm curious why we lost so many interesting artifacts compared to WHFB. You'd think it'd have been relativly easy to translate some more of those into AoS.