I HAVE THE POWER!!! (in terms of forum milestones)

[Canas]

A jack of all trades... but a master of nothing.

A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one ^^

If we are to use the WWE analogy, I see myself more like The Rock!

So way past your prime?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one ^^

But more often it is not. The human race is pushed forward by people that are extreme masters in a particular field. Like Newton or Einstein in science.

So way past your prime?

If being past my prime means that I look like the Rock... I think I'm okay with that.

 

[Canas]

But more often it is not. The human race is pushed forward by people that are extreme masters in a particular field. Like Newton or Einstein in science.

Newton worked on mathematics, optics, mechanics & alchemy. That's not exactly a master of 1 field

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Newton worked on mathematics, optics, mechanics & alchemy. That's not exactly a master of 1 field

It's all encompassed under the field of physics. Physics would also include mathematics, which is one of its primary tools.

It would be similar as saying Messi is a master of soccer. The field is soccer, but that field includes running, shooting, passing, defending, dribbling, etc. The same would be true for a master in the Dark Side of the force. They would possess a group of skills & abilities shared by Sith Lords.

 

[Canas]

It's all encompassed under the field of physics. Physics would also include mathematics, which is one of its primary tools.

It would be similar as saying Messi is a master of soccer. The field is soccer, but that field includes running, shooting, passing, defending, dribbling, etc. The same would be true for a master in the Dark Side of the force. They would possess a group of skills & abilities shared by Sith Lords.

Physics is slightly larger than soccer, plus you can literally get a PhD in any of the fields I mentioned (bar alchemy...). Calling physics as a whole 1 field is rather a stretch. It's messing with the laws of physics

Also, physics does not include mathematics. Mathematics include physics.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

A jack of all trades... but a master of nothing.

A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one ^

Specialists thrive only while their environment stays the same, because they have adapted specially to live in that environment. If the environment changes, specialists are the first to perish. A prime example is the Woolly Mammoth - it evolved thick fur and small ears to help it thrive in the ice age, but as soon as the ice receded, trees spread across the land and the temperature became warm again, the mammoth died out. Hunting by early peoples did contribute to its demise, but the loss of the environment it had specialised in was the main cause of its downfall.

Humans have advanced through specialists, but the reason we’re here at all is because of the majority being jacks of all trades - our ability to adapt has allowed us to survive almost anything nature has thrown at us, which then paves the way for a specialist to advance us every so often.

Funny pic, but I agree with @NIGHTBRINGER here - why am I being likened to Trump? I am nothing like him!

It's all encompassed under the field of physics. Physics would also include mathematics, which is one of its primary tools.

It would be similar as saying Messi is a master of soccer. The field is soccer, but that field includes running, shooting, passing, defending, dribbling, etc. The same would be true for a master in the Dark Side of the force. They would possess a group of skills & abilities shared by Sith Lords.

Ah but some parts of physics don’t involve maths at all, while some parts of maths don’t involve physics at all. It’s like a Venn Diagram - maths and physics are the two circles with a section in the middle relating to the common parts of both, e.g. mechanics, and the sections outside represent the unique aspects, such as algebra and statistics in maths and particle physics. This means that they are two different subjects as they don’t share all their features, so Newton wasn’t a complete specialist. Maths is a much broader field than physics as it applies to nearly everything in the world, while physics is more specialised. Trust me, I did A-Levels in both, I know what I’m talking about.

Physics is slightly larger than soccer, plus you can literally get a PhD in any of the fields I mentioned (bar alchemy...). Calling physics as a whole 1 field is rather a stretch. It's messing with the laws of physics

Also, physics does not include mathematics. Mathematics include physics.

Agreed, the aspects of maths used in physics are just one aspect of maths. Others include geometry, algebra, statistics and calculus. Maths is a much more general field.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

By the way, the lost @Bowser returned briefly last night. He’s still alive!

 

[Lord-Marcus]

By the way, the lost @Bowser returned briefly last night. He’s still alive!

Unconfirmed report is unconfirmed.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Also, physics does not include mathematics. Mathematics include physics

Mathematics is a tool. Just as a blacksmith wields a hammer, a physicist wields mathematics to do his/her work. So while math does exist outside of physics, it is also an integral part of physics because you can't be a physicist without a deep understanding of mathematics. A lot of what physicists do is mathematics, mathematics with a specific purpose.

Physics is slightly larger than soccer, plus you can literally get a PhD in any of the fields I mentioned (bar alchemy...). Calling physics as a whole 1 field is rather a stretch. It's messing with the laws of physics

You are correct that under the field of physics there are many types of much more focused specializations (i.e. astrophysicist, theoretical physicist, etc.). In a more limited sense, soccer also has specializations: forward, midfield, defender & goalie.

Humans have advanced through specialists, but the reason we’re here at all is because of the majority being jacks of all trades - our ability to adapt has allowed us to survive almost anything nature has thrown at us, which then paves the way for a specialist to advance us every so often.

I would say yes and no. While I agree that our ability to adapt is key to our survival, I would argue that this ability arises from a very specific specialization, namely intelligence (alongside of opposable thumbs). This intelligence provides us with such a great advantage, that as a species we no longer have to adapt to the environment but instead we adapt our environment to serve us. Make no mistake, intelligence is very much our specialization, and we posses it to a level that isn't even closely approximated by any other living thing on our entire planet. Now if you don't consider that a specialization, then I don't know what is.

Agreed, the aspects of maths used in physics are just one aspect of maths. Others include geometry, algebra, statistics and calculus. Maths is a much more general field.

Math is a much more general field and obviously exists outside of physics, but mind you, all the maths you mentioned are used within physics as well. In fact, calculus was invented by physicist Sir Isaac Newton.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

This is the most patriotic post I've ever made in my life, and it's my 1776th post on this forum:

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

This is the most patriotic post I've ever made in my life, and it's my 1776th post on this forum:

View attachment 40197

Well now we are completely off topic (not that we were on topic earlier).

 

[Canas]

Mathematics is a tool. Just as a blacksmith wields a hammer, a physicist wields mathematics to do his/her work. So while math does exist outside of physics, it is also an integral part of physics because you can't be a physicist without a deep understanding of mathematics. A lot of what physicists do is mathematics, mathematics with a specific purpose.

Physics is just applied mathematics hence math is better

You are correct

I'm glad you've finally seen the light.

I would say yes and no. While I agree that our ability to adapt is key to our survival, I would argue that this ability arises from a very specific specialization, namely intelligence (alongside of opposable thumbs). This intelligence provides us with such a great advantage, that as a species we no longer have to adapt to the environment but instead we adapt our environment to serve us. Make no mistake, intelligence is very much our specialization, and we posses it to a level that isn't even closely approximated by any other living thing on our entire planet. Now if you don't consider that a specialization, then I don't know what is.

Two things; one it's not our only special ability, there's several other aspects in which we absolutly dominate the animal kingdom (we're terribly resilient, we're the asbolute masters of just walking long distances, we're amazing at persistence hunting). And two, our intelligence combined with these other traits makes us really good generalists. Intelligence's main advantage is that it can be applied to figure out pretty much anything. And that you can make use of transfer learning to not be completly helpless in a new situation. Our natural resilience and other abilities then ensured we stayed alive long enough to figure out the solutin to what was troubling us this time. If anything we're specialized to be generalists.

Well now we are completely off topic (not that we were on topic earlier).

Wait there was a topic?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Physics is just applied mathematics hence math is better

Physics is the apex predator of the academic world. It encompasses the largest of things (the universe or perhaps a multiverse) to the very smallest things (quantum mechanics, sub atomic particles and string theory). It gave engineers the tools to used create the computer/phone you are using to interact with this forum, the planes and cars we travel in, the microwave you use to heat up your food, etc. etc. etc. Physics asks the most fundamental of questions, how did the universe begin?, how will the universe end?, how did we come into being?, are we alone in the universe? etc. You are right that physics is just applied mathematics, or another way to phrase it is that physics is mathematics with a purpose. That makes physics the kingpin.

Two things; one it's not our only special ability, there's several other aspects in which we absolutly dominate the animal kingdom (we're terribly resilient, we're the asbolute masters of just walking long distances, we're amazing at persistence hunting). And two, our intelligence combined with these other traits makes us really good generalists. Intelligence's main advantage is that it can be applied to figure out pretty much anything. And that you can make use of transfer learning to not be completly helpless in a new situation. Our natural resilience and other abilities then ensured we stayed alive long enough to figure out the solutin to what was troubling us this time. If anything we're specialized to be generalists.

Of course I was using a generalization. There are other important traits that helped us evolve into the dominant species on the planet. However, none are more important or more pronounced than our intelligence. If we had to give up one of the traits you listed (even though they are all important), I can most definitely tell you we'd want to hang onto intelligence. When you compare us to all the different living creatures on the planet, it becomes apparent that intelligence is our one true specialization.

Wait there was a topic?

Apparently there was!

 

[n810]

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I would say yes and no. While I agree that our ability to adapt is key to our survival, I would argue that this ability arises from a very specific specialization, namely intelligence (alongside of opposable thumbs). This intelligence provides us with such a great advantage, that as a species we no longer have to adapt to the environment but instead we adapt our environment to serve us. Make no mistake, intelligence is very much our specialization, and we posses it to a level that isn't even closely approximated by any other living thing on our entire planet. Now if you don't consider that a specialization, then I don't know what is.

Incorrect, sir. It is such a common mistake so many people make to think that we are by far the most intelligent of all. Several animals are as intelligent as we are - elephants, dolphins and crows to name three. The only reasons people don’t take this into account are their arrogance and that these creatures don’t speak our languages, so we can’t understand them? Intelligence is not our specialisation. Our true specialisation is IMAGINATION. Imagination is the reason we have become so good at adapting - it allows us to conjure up ‘what if’ scenarios in our minds without us visually seeing things, that allow us to prepare for future events. For example, very early African Homo Sapiens used ostrich eggs with holes in them as primitive water bottles, that they would hide underneath the desert sand so that if they, or another person, was walking past that spot and felt really thirsty, they could remove the egg from the sand, remove the grass plugging up the hole and drink from it. An invention that was created by what-if Scenarios, produced by the imagination. While other animals have shown inklings of imagination, we are the only species to have such a complex one. The reason we outcompeted Neanderthals was not because Neanderthals were stupid, far from it, they were specialists at hunting in the Ice Age, but that they had very little imagination, because their environment didn’t need it. Meanwhile Homo Sapiens had much greater imaginations, so they were able to adapt hunting techniques to suit different environments and prey, and were thus able to survive when the Ice Age ended, while the Neanderthals largely died out because they weren’t able to adapt their hunting strategies to the new prey that evolved after the Ice Age.

Therefore, it is imagination that separates us from all others, not intelligence.

And please read ALL of this before you try to post another feeble argument.

This is the most patriotic post I've ever made in my life, and it's my 1776th post on this forum:

View attachment 40197

Zeus wins. Always.

 

[n810]

https://imgur.com/gallery/WPJGG

 

[Canas]

Physics is the apex predator of the academic world. It encompasses the largest of things (the universe or perhaps a multiverse) to the very smallest things (quantum mechanics, sub atomic particles and string theory). It gave engineers the tools to used create the computer/phone you are using to interact with this forum, the planes and cars we travel in, the microwave you use to heat up your food, etc. etc. etc. Physics asks the most fundamental of questions, how did the universe begin?, how will the universe end?, how did we come into being?, are we alone in the universe? etc. You are right that physics is just applied mathematics, or another way to phrase it is that physics is mathematics with a purpose. That makes physics the kingpin.

Mathematics can describe a universe (or well, any universe really as long as it's consistent...). Physics is just 1 possible description of such a universe.
Physics asks "how does this universe work". Math asks "how would any universe work". Physics only encompasses reality, Math includes the imaginary. And no the multiverse-theory does not include the imaginary as by definition it'd not be imaginary anymore .

Anyways, math wins

Also, since when does physic ask "are we alone in the universe"? That's not a question I'd give to physics (nor is how did we come into being for that matter, as from a physics point of view that's basicly just "some atoms colided and shit happened". Plus, the scale at which physics operates is of no interests for how we came around. Atoms colliding or tectonic plates moving say very little of how say culture and intelligence came into being. And no electric currents in the brain aren't a particularly good model for the creation of culture as those lack a clear way to interact with external forces which is rather relevant here .

Of course I was using a generalization. There are other important traits that helped us evolve into the dominant species on the planet. However, none are more important or more pronounced than our intelligence. If we had to give up one of the traits you listed (even though they are all important), I can most definitely tell you we'd want to hang onto intelligence. When you compare us to all the different living creatures on the planet, it becomes apparent that intelligence is our one true specialization.

Those other traits are what allowed us to develop our intelligence. If you'd just immeadiatly pick intelligence I think you'd quickly find yourself quite dead. Whereas if the other traits remain there is the oppertunity for intelligence to reappear.

Also another big trait is our ability to get bored and go wander of to the other side of the hill to look if something interesting is there. Or to stick a stick and stone together and see if it magically becomes an axe. It's quite wonderfull.

Incorrect, sir. It is such a common mistake so many people make to think that we are by far the most intelligent of all. Several animals are as intelligent as we are - elephants, dolphins and crows to name three. The only reasons people don’t take this into account are their arrogance and that these creatures don’t speak our languages, so we can’t understand them? Intelligence is not our specialisation. Our true specialisation is IMAGINATION. Imagination is the reason we have become so good at adapting - it allows us to conjure up ‘what if’ scenarios in our minds without us visually seeing things, that allow us to prepare for future events. For example, very early African Homo Sapiens used ostrich eggs with holes in them as primitive water bottles, that they would hide underneath the desert sand so that if they, or another person, was walking past that spot and felt really thirsty, they could remove the egg from the sand, remove the grass plugging up the hole and drink from it. An invention that was created by what-if Scenarios, produced by the imagination. While other animals have shown inklings of imagination, we are the only species to have such a complex one. The reason we outcompeted Neanderthals was not because Neanderthals were stupid, far from it, they were specialists at hunting in the Ice Age, but that they had very little imagination, because their environment didn’t need it. Meanwhile Homo Sapiens had much greater imaginations, so they were able to adapt hunting techniques to suit different environments and prey, and were thus able to survive when the Ice Age ended, while the Neanderthals largely died out because they weren’t able to adapt their hunting strategies to the new prey that evolved after the Ice Age.

Therefore, it is imagination that separates us from all others, not intelligence.

And please read ALL of this before you try to post another feeble argument.

Wasn't the most recent theory with respect to Neaderthals just that there were a load more homo sapiens so they just sorta got overrun and absorbed them into their branch. I remember a theory that it could partially explain the existence of certain variations of autism. People that have those have specific variations have stronger Neaderthal heritage in their DNA and certain behaviours do correspond to what would make sense in their groups (e.g. Neaderthals mostly lived in smaller groups in quieter places hence a dislike for "loud" noises as these noises would indicate a bear charging at you, whereas homo sapiens lived in bigger groups hence "loud" noises correspond to the safety of the village)

also how exactly are crows our equals? They're smart sure, but what standard puts em on equal ground? (or Dolphins, or any of the others you mentioned)

 

[Lord-Marcus]

https://imgur.com/gallery/WPJGG

Risky click of the day.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Incorrect, sir. It is such a common mistake so many people make to think that we are by far the most intelligent of all. Several animals are as intelligent as we are - elephants, dolphins and crows to name three. The only reasons people don’t take this into account are their arrogance and that these creatures don’t speak our languages, so we can’t understand them?

Are you really proposing that the intelligence of elephants, dolphins and crows are on par with that of humans? Those animals you named are among the most intelligent in the animal kingdom, but they are a VERY long ways from achieving human level intelligence.

There are many ways to tackle this:

• Achievements - humans have advanced mathematics & science, we have created art & music, we have built cities, wrote books, landed on the moon, created medicine, harnessed the power of the atom, interconnected the world via the web, etc.
• Biology - we simply have more neural connections than any other animal on the planet. Our brains are literally and undeniably more advanced.
• Dominance - the cream rises to the top. Our advancements have helped us rise as the most dominant species on the planet. The animals you listed are completely at our mercy (which is a power we sadly abuse). If they are so smart, why haven't then thought up any countermeasures against us?
• Common Sense - I really can't stress this enough, the evidence is so overwhelmingly in our favor, that it is blatantly obvious that we are more intelligent than elephants, dolphins and crows. Don't believe me, tell a few random people about your theory and see their reaction. I've given you a basis for why we are more intelligent as a species, now please provide me with some intellectual feats that your animals can do that we can not.

Intelligence is not our specialisation. Our true specialisation is IMAGINATION.

Imagination arises from intelligence; imagination is a type of intelligence or at the very least a direct product of it. Mind you that does not mean that all intelligent people are imaginative, because there are many different types of "intelligences" (the specific breakdown of which is still highly studied in psychology). However, if you were to split all the people in the world into two groups, with all the most intelligent people in one group and the least intelligent in another, I'd bet you everything I own that the more intelligent group would demonstrate greater overall imagination.

And please read ALL of this before you try to post another feeble argument.

You liken your intelligence to that of a crow, elephant or dolphin and you have the nerve to call my arguments feeble? Maybe you would fare better debating them?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Mathematics can describe a universe (or well, any universe really as long as it's consistent...). Physics is just 1 possible description of such a universe.
Physics asks "how does this universe work". Math asks "how would any universe work". Physics only encompasses reality, Math includes the imaginary. And no the multiverse-theory does not include the imaginary as by definition it'd not be imaginary anymore .

Anyways, math wins

Math is a tool (probably the most important tool we have), but not much more on its own. It needs to be applied through something; given focus and purpose. Math is the hammer, while physics is the blacksmith.

Physics also includes the imaginary, theoretical physicists deal with a great number of ideas that have yet to have any observational or experimental backing. Listen to a few physics lectures and you'll see.

Also, since when does physic ask "are we alone in the universe"?

In the search for extraterrestrial life. We have satellite dishes being used for this. We have rovers on mars that are working towards this. There is a constant search for "Goldilocks planets" as well as other places such as moons that orbit around gas giants (Jupiter and Saturn) which might be able to produce and sustain life.

Those other traits are what allowed us to develop our intelligence. If you'd just immeadiatly pick intelligence I think you'd quickly find yourself quite dead. Whereas if the other traits remain there is the oppertunity for intelligence to reappear.

Those other traits are definitely essential to our early existence. Integral Calculus is not all that important on the fields of Africa when a Lion is looking to make a meal out of you. As you said, those traits helped us survive and provided the opportunity for intelligence to evolve, but it was essentially that intelligence that became our ultimate specialization allowing us to dominate the planet. I don't trivialize the importance of those other traits, but they are traits that are shared by other creatures to various degrees or another. Intelligence is the one glaring difference between us and the rest of the animals that share the earth with us.

Also another big trait is our ability to get bored and go wander of to the other side of the hill to look if something interesting is there. Or to stick a stick and stone together and see if it magically becomes an axe. It's quite wonderfull.

Curiosity stems from intelligence. Trying to discover things and to try things out. More intelligent creatures are always more curious than less intelligent ones. Look at Chimps, Cats and Dolphins compared to a snail for instance.