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8th Ed. THE OLD WORLD - Things you want, things you don't want, must haves and deal breakers!

Lizards of Renown said:
For me, Warhammer has always been about mocking up being that general, marshalling your forces in the correct way to deal with the enemy that you are going to face and then using tactics to overcome this.
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This, in combination with random chance through dice rolls. To me, Warhammer has done a decent (not 'good') job at balancing the effects that dice rolling can determine games. Some of my most memorable moments playing (both casually and competitively) include one unlikely dice roll on a spell, combat round, leadership roll, etc. that determined the outcome of the game (in both wins a losses). If you make things too mechanical and predictable, it loses that fun factor that makes you want to participate in each game turn/phase (this is especially true at the competitive scene). If you make things too random, the general feels like their tactics didn't determine the outcome and they'll lose interest. I've been at both ends of that spectrum while playing Warhammer, at both casual and competitive locations; give me most of the former, with a good mix-in of the latter and you got a balance in my opinion.
 
hardyworld said:
This, in combination with random chance through dice rolls. To me, Warhammer has done a decent (not 'good') job at balancing the effects that dice rolling can determine games. Some of my most memorable moments playing (both casually and competitively) include one unlikely dice roll on a spell, combat round, leadership roll, etc. that determined the outcome of the game (in both wins a losses). If you make things too mechanical and predictable, it loses that fun factor that makes you want to participate in each game turn/phase (this is especially true at the competitive scene). If you make things too random, the general feels like their tactics didn't determine the outcome and they'll lose interest. I've been at both ends of that spectrum while playing Warhammer, at both casual and competitive locations; give me most of the former, with a good mix-in of the latter and you got a balance in my opinion.
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Well said.

You want that randomity factor that has plagued generals for time immemorial.

I agree completely with the above, but with the small addition that I forgot to say earlier:

It has to be fun for both sides. That's the whole f*****g point.

Like has been said on other threads, it is important not to abuse rule sets or create "power" lists that means that you win, but at the expense of the other player's fun.

This is stressed throughout the 8th edition and was one of the original hooks in it for me. @NIGHTBRINGER any thoughts or contributions on this?
 
Are there any MUST NOT HAVES ??

I suppose this is a subset of Dealbreakers but more focused on models...or maybe whole races. Like maybe Zoats and those Club-Tailed things (forgetting the name of them).
 
pendrake said:
Are there any MUST NOT HAVES ??

I suppose this is a subset of Dealbreakers but more focused on models...or maybe whole races. Like maybe Zoats and Fimir
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Hmm, Stormcast would certainly wreck the whole point of the setting. Can’t think of anyone else I really don’t want to see without removing factions that are the favourites of lots of other players (Warriors of Chaos for the purposes of making the game balanced and Vampire Counts because I just don’t like them at all).

Fimir were returned to Warhammer Fantasy as part of Norsca for Warhammer: Total War, so they may well show up again. I don’t know where Zoats would fit into all of this as a faction - they did return as part of Storm of Magic in 8th Edition, but only as a single model you could take as an allied Wizard as part of your Monsters and Magic allowance, and even then there was no faction to which they could easily be aligned. I’d be interested to see if GW do anything with them this time round, but given that they’re most likely going to be Forge World I wouldn’t buy any even if GW did make them an entirely new faction.
 
pendrake said:
Are there any MUST NOT HAVES ??

I suppose this is a subset of Dealbreakers but more focused on models...or maybe whole races. Like maybe Zoats and those Club-Tailed things (forgetting the name of them).
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Deal breakers would be the opposites of what I said:

1. Unable to use 8th edition models
2. Unbalanced armies
3. Some "simplified" ruleset which doesn't allow for any strategy or "generaling" to occur

I guess I would add if they killed off any of 8th edition factions would be the other thing. There's literally NO reason why they'd have to do that and they could easily add more factions.
 
Another idea I’ve thought of is that maybe GW will give TOW the Middle Earth treatment and bring back all the plastic kits that were ditched during AoS for existing factions, so players can get started with any of the main factions as soon as possible, and it’s only new units for existing factions and new factions, such as Kislev, that are going to be made in Forge World resin? Certainly that’s what they’ve done for Middle Earth, and it would give me something to hang onto in the desperate hope that they bring the Tomb Guard, Sphinx and Necropolis Knights kits back.
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
Another idea I’ve thought of is that maybe GW will give TOW the Middle Earth treatment and bring back all the plastic kits that were ditched during AoS for existing factions, so players can get started with any of the main factions as soon as possible, and it’s only new units for existing factions and new factions, such as Kislev, that are going to be made in Forge World resin? Certainly that’s what they’ve done for Middle Earth, and it would give me something to hang onto in the desperate hope that they bring the Tomb Guard, Sphinx and Necropolis Knights kits back.
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Seems like wishful thinking (though I can't blame you for that). Fingers crossed!
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
Another idea I’ve thought of is that maybe GW will give TOW the Middle Earth treatment and bring back all the plastic kits that were ditched during AoS for existing factions, so players can get started with any of the main factions as soon as possible, and it’s only new units for existing factions and new factions, such as Kislev, that are going to be made in Forge World resin? Certainly that’s what they’ve done for Middle Earth, and it would give me something to hang onto in the desperate hope that they bring the Tomb Guard, Sphinx and Necropolis Knights kits back.
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YES!

Tomb Kings look amazing and you can't get them right now for love or money (well... you can for a LOT of money)
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
They could have made the new stuff for TOW in plastic, let's be honest, because it is not only more affordable and easily obtainable for players, but also give a lot more options for customisability on the sprues.

Forge World's original purpose was to make huge models that were just too big to be made in plastic or metal, which I'm fine with. I wouldn't have anything against a resin Thunder Lizard or Khemric Titan. However, you'd think that because GW's sculpting ability in plastic is so much better now, they could easily make most of the infantry, cavalry and small to medium-size monsters (the stuff that players would be buying most of) in plastic as they've done for AoS to make it affordable for new players to start.
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If they released a Khemric Titan I would buy it. I would buy it if I had to eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a month.
 
I started fantasy with Tomb Kings so I'm heavily invested in returning them to play and if they just so happen to give us a centerpiece model of the Titan...
 
BrotherSutek said:
I started fantasy with Tomb Kings so I'm heavily invested in returning them to play and if they just so happen to give us a centerpiece model of the Titan...
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I am with you on this. It's very irritating that the only model I am able to use as a Hierotitan or Necrolith Colossus is the Bone Titan model. It's a skeleton body versus the whole animated-construct thing and annoys the piss out of me as someone who enjoys to play with all correct models.
 
I've wanted to build that for a while, the just got the part back in stock. I don't have the parts for the arms and scales/staff...I'll figure something out. This is another annoying case of a model that would have sold like hotcakes if GW had ever made it! I really hope they make the Titan that being said.
 
Just because I'm thinking about it... I think the biggest dealbreaker for me would be completely new armies which would make my existing 8th edition armies "redundant".

If they did an ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING, GOD-LIKE job of working over the rules I would probably play using my models as proxies in open defiance of all convention. ;)
 
I would love to have amazing rules. The models tend to be hot or cold for me now adays and as I have so many...so, so many, I don't need to impulse buy as I used to. GW pricing helped that deal along as even character models are 30-40 and that isn't an impulse buy for me. They release a Titan or new Dogs of War(hahahahahahaha) that aren't even worse on the heroic scale they will not just tempt me but compel me o buy!
 
Lizards of Renown said:
Just because I'm thinking about it... I think the biggest dealbreaker for me would be completely new armies which would make my existing 8th edition armies "redundant".

If they did an ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING, GOD-LIKE job of working over the rules I would probably play using my models as proxies in open defiance of all convention. ;)
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I don't care how good the rules are, if my armies aren't playable, I'm not interested.
 
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