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AoS The losing warscrolls of the new tome?

Acehilator said:
Problem is you are feeding resources into it that would better be spend elsewhere. We are absolutely spoiled for options for Serpent Staff, Saurus Warriors, Saurus Knights, Rippers, Terradons and Skinks are all way better recipients. Same goes for command points. The footprint is small, and it's not killy enough. It's durability does not really help, because any opponent with half a clue will just leave it alone.

Bastiladon is still viable for casual play, but I suspect it will already run of of steam if you are playing in a harder local meta.
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Thunder lizard bastiladon is probably the only viable build.
 
Don't discount range. Like I said, first turn, charge up your basties and unload. 29" threat right out of the gate, and a pile of heavy wounds on the first turn is rough. while it's up there, it still blocks charge lanes, behemoth base+ 3" in all directions. More importantly, ranged damage is free damage, the more resources you take away from your opponent, the less he has to strike you back with.

Bastilidons may not be the hammer unit, but if you can peel off a unit of heavy infantry or a few bases of bloodcrushers before the actual combat begins, your knights and warriors will love you.

I'm going to be experimenting with a pair of these in my firelance list, I'll be happy to report back how good/bad they end up being
 
Killer Angel said:
Thunder lizard bastiladon is probably the only viable build.
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Thunderquake? Thunderlizard does allow it to shoot twice, but toying with the idea of using an Ark Basti as an anvil to occupy something (Thunderquake Starhost, so innately healing a little) while hitting other units. Might need some Lifeswarm and other healing like an EotG, but I think it has merit as such.
 
The problem with basties is that they want CP to deal any decent damage (Herald of the Old ones + Trove of the Old On'es Technology+Hand of Glory/Burning Head). If you have 2 of them, you want 4 CP dedicated to them every turn. The range is really good, however, especially in TQTH, so, maybe, they will be good character snipers?
 
And that's the problem. If you feed those 4 CP into something more powerful, you just remove huge chunks of your opponent's army. Who cares if some support characters are still alive ;)

Not hating on Basti, love the model, but it's just a case for beer & pretzels games. In those it will still be pretty awesome.
 
Asamu said:
Real loser of the book is the troglodon. It wasn't great before (though at 140, it wasn't too bad as far as monsters go, but it didn't have rend or synergies, and there were better options), and it's even worse now. 1 spell and regeneration aren't worth a 120 point increase, especially considering it's weaker in melee than it was before. It'd need to be at least 60 or 80 points less to be maybe decent.
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After giving this another go I tend to agree, I did not put it in the original list because of how different it is now and my limited experience with it, but it just has no real redeeming qualities to justify the cost.

The cost being exactly the same as a Slann is way out there, Slann generating CP in a CP hungry army is so important, while also having 3 spell casts. The Troglodon could have had a place if it was either cheaper or stronger. I would like to have had it stronger really, to give a wizard option for an aggressive fast moving list.

Right now though it has pitiful damage, by far the worst monster in the game. Spit should be at least just 3 attacks flat, no random shots. Jaws should have double the damage. The MW rule should be to deal x weapon dmg and end sequence, so jawz hits on 6 would be 4 MW for example.

In melee right now as coalesced even with +1 jaw attack, the average damage of a Troglodon against a 4+ save is 3 damage, that is the same as a 5 man liberator unit... Obviously it should not out damage the oldblood on carno, as it is a regenerating wizard with +1 cast and boardwide unbinds, but it needs something to set it apart from either the carno or slann.
 
Loser of the New Battletome According to LizardWizard:
  • Eternity Warden
  • Ark of Sotek
  • Engine of the Gods
  • Chameleon Skinks
  • Saurus Guard
  • Troglodon (due to point cost)
On a more positive note

Winners:
  • SALAMANDERS
  • Lord Kroak
  • Terradons
  • Starseer
  • Kroxigor
 
LizardWizard said:
Loser of the New Battletome According to LizardWizard:
  • Eternity Warden
  • Ark of Sotek
  • Engine of the Gods
  • Chameleon Skinks
  • Saurus Guard
  • Troglodon (due to point cost)
On a more positive note

Winners:
  • SALAMANDERS
  • Lord Kroak
  • Terradons
  • Starseer
  • Kroxigor
Click to expand...


Chameleon skinks could see some use in a coalesced army (especially shadowstrike, as you only need 1 unit of buffed skinks), just because the mobility granted by chama gives some small board control to a sub-faction that doesn't have LoSaT or deep strikes.
But it's not a buff received by the unit… it's more a weakness of a sub-faction, which the ability of said unit happens to mitigate somehow.
 
WizardinWinter said:
Me, any time lizardwizard celebrates a previously unpopular unit:
- squints eyes
- runs a math hammer
"Well damn..."
Coalesced gave kroxies some literal bite
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Yes people talk about all other stuff and synergies and CP spending etc. Kroxigors want to be near any skink keyword unit sure, but if they are, they can dish out damage way above their point cost. I like them in thunderquakes too now, as they benefit a lot from both run/charge and from +1 attack to both mauls and bites. As coalesced they have 5 attacks with mauls and 3 bites, brining their damage average to the same as a 4 man ironguts unit (already one of the highest damaging units per point in game).

Doubt I'd take their moonhammer anymore though, you need to face some real hordes on a regular basis as it no longer hits any harder than a maul which already got 4-5 attacks.
 
One thing to think about with kroxigors, they could be a really solid counter to ogors. They don’t cost much more and are notably more durable then them.

as for saurus guard, one image can summarize them pretty well
upload_2020-3-22_9-22-55.png
 
Lizerd said:
as for saurus guard, one image can summarize them pretty well
View attachment 68310
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Well they are 5 for 100, still head and shoulders above liberators ;) Warriors in large units will bring more offensive power for the cost no doubt, although both units are on 32mm bases with 1" reach. The saurus guards should at least have had 2" reach on those polearms... Anyway, as coalesced they got 2 polearm attacks and 2 bites regardless of model count and they are still battleine. I will still use them along with a Slann to protect it.

If only they had that reach, or the warden was a bit better with at least some passive bonus to the guards, then they could easily have been a winner, now they are just ok, but outdone in a min/max setting. Still playable and better than what some lower tier armies got (yes I also play warrior chamber stormcast with the worst battleline in the game).
 
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