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Tutorial The 8e Lizardmen Handbook (Updated November 2nd 2014)
- Thread starter VampTeddy
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Cold One
sorrowquin
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Skavenpelt banner:
You only get Hatred against the bearer. If you put it on the Slann and in his TG he can't be attacked and the Skaven don't get hatred against the TG.
At least this is how I read the rules...
Talisman of Preservation:
I'd definetly make this a blue item, here's why:
It lets you build a second Saurus Hero with a 1+ and 4++
It can be combined with charmed shield to protect your carnosaur riders, while Armor of Destiny can't
Sifejir's Hex Scroll:
I'd make this a green item:
You don't want to use this against a lvl 3 or 4 since it's too chancy and most of the time they will be in a bunker anyways. Use this against Deamon Princes and Vampires with lvl 1/2 ! It has a far better chance succeeding and thos Casters are fighting character which means they will most likely be very near you making it much easier to actually take advantage and very likely to take them out.
I think this is a very underrated and underused item because it has the potential to be awesome!
Skavenpelt banner:
You only get Hatred against the bearer. If you put it on the Slann and in his TG he can't be attacked and the Skaven don't get hatred against the TG.
At least this is how I read the rules...
Talisman of Preservation:
I'd definetly make this a blue item, here's why:
It lets you build a second Saurus Hero with a 1+ and 4++
It can be combined with charmed shield to protect your carnosaur riders, while Armor of Destiny can't
Sifejir's Hex Scroll:
I'd make this a green item:
You don't want to use this against a lvl 3 or 4 since it's too chancy and most of the time they will be in a bunker anyways. Use this against Deamon Princes and Vampires with lvl 1/2 ! It has a far better chance succeeding and thos Casters are fighting character which means they will most likely be very near you making it much easier to actually take advantage and very likely to take them out.
I think this is a very underrated and underused item because it has the potential to be awesome!
Terradon
VampTeddy
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Sifejir's is the very essence of a conditional item.
it could do awesome, or it could be 25 slaves out the window.
I'm not facing vampire lords or daemon princes every single game - and every review is based on the prospect of an all-comers list (#2).
I agree on the talisman of Preservation however, and i'll probably the edit the explanation as well.
sorrowquin said:
Sifejir's is the very essence of a conditional item.
it could do awesome, or it could be 25 slaves out the window.
I'm not facing vampire lords or daemon princes every single game - and every review is based on the prospect of an all-comers list (#2).
I agree on the talisman of Preservation however, and i'll probably the edit the explanation as well.
Saurus
A Steaming Kroak
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
I would like to point out a couple of relatively small things, specifically as how they relate to equipment for Cowboys.
1. You state most things will only hit the Fencer's blades with glittering scales on 6's. This is only true if the enemy has WS 4 or lower. With Elf's and Chaos Warriors being the top tier these days I would say that in many cases this combination will be hit on 5', which is the same as if he only had glittering scales. It's still a good combination against many armies, but I think that "most things" is overstating the usefulness of the combo.
2. The Dawnstone is better or equal to a 4+ ward for protecting our Cowboys from anything that has less than str7. I believe this item should be Purple as I think it is as important as the Armour of Destiny (also purple) for our Cowboy builds. It is used in almost all builds with two cowboys, and in many or most with one.
3. The Trickster's Helm will actually give better protection than the glittering scales against str 5 or lower, and the same at str 6. In games with a secondary Old Blood cowboy, I would put it with the talisman of preservation to give you the second most defensible setup. The Armour of Destiny and Dawnstone being on the first Old Blood. It is also much more survivable than the Stegadon Helm at less than str7 (although it doesn't have the impact hits). I'm not saying the item should be upgraded to blue, but I think you dismissed the usefulness of the item a little bit in your description.
I like your work so far, keep it up.
I would like to point out a couple of relatively small things, specifically as how they relate to equipment for Cowboys.
1. You state most things will only hit the Fencer's blades with glittering scales on 6's. This is only true if the enemy has WS 4 or lower. With Elf's and Chaos Warriors being the top tier these days I would say that in many cases this combination will be hit on 5', which is the same as if he only had glittering scales. It's still a good combination against many armies, but I think that "most things" is overstating the usefulness of the combo.
2. The Dawnstone is better or equal to a 4+ ward for protecting our Cowboys from anything that has less than str7. I believe this item should be Purple as I think it is as important as the Armour of Destiny (also purple) for our Cowboy builds. It is used in almost all builds with two cowboys, and in many or most with one.
3. The Trickster's Helm will actually give better protection than the glittering scales against str 5 or lower, and the same at str 6. In games with a secondary Old Blood cowboy, I would put it with the talisman of preservation to give you the second most defensible setup. The Armour of Destiny and Dawnstone being on the first Old Blood. It is also much more survivable than the Stegadon Helm at less than str7 (although it doesn't have the impact hits). I'm not saying the item should be upgraded to blue, but I think you dismissed the usefulness of the item a little bit in your description.
I like your work so far, keep it up.
Cold One
sorrowquin
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Well, you DO meet Deamon Princes and Vampires and Firebellies and other lvl 1/2 casters on flying mounts in every tournament. For a tournament List I'd definately consider those 25slaves.
I do agree that in terms of an allcomers list for single games this is very conditional. Maybe make it green for tournament lists?
Keep up the good work and thanks for the effort you put into this! =)
I agree with steaming Kroak btw, that's good research.
VampTeddy said:
Well, you DO meet Deamon Princes and Vampires and Firebellies and other lvl 1/2 casters on flying mounts in every tournament. For a tournament List I'd definately consider those 25slaves.
I do agree that in terms of an allcomers list for single games this is very conditional. Maybe make it green for tournament lists?
Keep up the good work and thanks for the effort you put into this! =)
I agree with steaming Kroak btw, that's good research.
Terradon
VampTeddy
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Changed the wording of fencer's blade to state "some enemies will even..."
Upped the Dawnstone to Purple, i agree that it was underrated, heck i usually visit it before my Armor of Destiny.
Added comments on trickster's stating it's usefull against most regular infantry "up to str 6".
A Steaming Kroak said:
Changed the wording of fencer's blade to state "some enemies will even..."
Upped the Dawnstone to Purple, i agree that it was underrated, heck i usually visit it before my Armor of Destiny.
Added comments on trickster's stating it's usefull against most regular infantry "up to str 6".
Terradon
VampTeddy
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Awesome ^^
I really like the style for the HB, the colouring is nice, and cartoonish without getting dull and SoB's drawings (i allmost wrote spawnings
) are amusing as always.
n810 said:How are you likeing the Illuistrations so far Vamp Teddy ?
Awesome ^^
I really like the style for the HB, the colouring is nice, and cartoonish without getting dull and SoB's drawings (i allmost wrote spawnings
) are amusing as always.
Terradon
VampTeddy
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
I agree but i disagree.
It is a "decent" item, it won't go a long way towards doing anywhting if you don't run into the right enemy.
And still hits your own Characters if you wanted them close.
I've rated it green instead and removed the additional comment - but i do agree somewhat with scalenex.
Ty for the comment though!
Jema said:
I agree but i disagree.
It is a "decent" item, it won't go a long way towards doing anywhting if you don't run into the right enemy.
And still hits your own Characters if you wanted them close.
I've rated it green instead and removed the additional comment - but i do agree somewhat with scalenex.
Ty for the comment though!
Slann
NIGHTBRINGER
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Thanks for this excellent review!
I was looking over some of the spells you rated, and I'd say that Hand of Glory should be rated purple. This spell is immensely useful for us, easy to cast, can be boosted and very versatile. It is one of the best spells in the High Lore, probably right after walk between worlds. It's one spell that I would NEVER trade away.
It's good for just about all of our units, but the boosted version becomes godly when casted on a large unit of Razordons.
Thanks for this excellent review!
I was looking over some of the spells you rated, and I'd say that Hand of Glory should be rated purple. This spell is immensely useful for us, easy to cast, can be boosted and very versatile. It is one of the best spells in the High Lore, probably right after walk between worlds. It's one spell that I would NEVER trade away.
It's good for just about all of our units, but the boosted version becomes godly when casted on a large unit of Razordons.
Terradon
VampTeddy
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
HoG IS good, but it has an error that to me costed it the Purple rating - It does not confer additional hitting power.
It provides a decent offensive, and defensive boost - but nothing gamebreaking - the chance to get I4 saurus isn't higher than I2 saurus, and it's the same for the rest of the buffs.
if i want all of the effects, yeah sure it's more useful - but it still doesn't help me kill stuff so well that it's a must-have.
Besides, even though the army book is quite new, and it hasn't really gone through finding a meta yet, i don't think fielding large units of razordon's is ever going to be the most popular choice. It's costly and i get something that's mediocre in all of the roles it fills, and even though it fills several roles i don't get to disrupt units on flank charges - i won't win versus dedicated combat units in a frontal charge, i won't have more shots than an equal points amount of skinks and so on. - They aren't subpar, since they're pretty ok - but i won't rate a spell on a unit that is not an auto include in any list.
That said, i friggin love Razordon's myself and recently bought my fifth. Can't wait to get them assembled painted and tested some more ^^
NIGHTBRINGER said:
HoG IS good, but it has an error that to me costed it the Purple rating - It does not confer additional hitting power.
It provides a decent offensive, and defensive boost - but nothing gamebreaking - the chance to get I4 saurus isn't higher than I2 saurus, and it's the same for the rest of the buffs.
if i want all of the effects, yeah sure it's more useful - but it still doesn't help me kill stuff so well that it's a must-have.
Besides, even though the army book is quite new, and it hasn't really gone through finding a meta yet, i don't think fielding large units of razordon's is ever going to be the most popular choice. It's costly and i get something that's mediocre in all of the roles it fills, and even though it fills several roles i don't get to disrupt units on flank charges - i won't win versus dedicated combat units in a frontal charge, i won't have more shots than an equal points amount of skinks and so on. - They aren't subpar, since they're pretty ok - but i won't rate a spell on a unit that is not an auto include in any list.
That said, i friggin love Razordon's myself and recently bought my fifth. Can't wait to get them assembled painted and tested some more ^^
Razordon
Ondjage
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
I may be wrong but I do believe that skaven does not get hatred Vs a unit of TGs containing a slann with the shaven pelt banner. It states that rats gets hatred when attacking the bearer, which is the Slann in the middle of the unit.
I may be wrong but I do believe that skaven does not get hatred Vs a unit of TGs containing a slann with the shaven pelt banner. It states that rats gets hatred when attacking the bearer, which is the Slann in the middle of the unit.
Skink
Ratlizardelfguy
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Hurry up! I've got a game next Tuesday!
Hurry up! I've got a game next Tuesday!
Saurus
Necromancy Black
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Re: The 8e Lizardmen Handbook
Definitely agree with people about eh Skavenpelt banner, skaven models only get hatred against the banner bearer, so on a TG bunker it might be nice as you can't target attacks against the Slann.
One thing with the magic items, you say the Scroll of Shielding can be used even when a spell is cast with IR. Infact you can't use the scroll, because the scroll can be used instead of attempting to dispel and you can not attempt to dispel a spell cast with IR. This is the same thing that prevents a wizard who has failed to dispel a spell from using a dispel scroll in the same magic phase.
Definitely agree with people about eh Skavenpelt banner, skaven models only get hatred against the banner bearer, so on a TG bunker it might be nice as you can't target attacks against the Slann.
One thing with the magic items, you say the Scroll of Shielding can be used even when a spell is cast with IR. Infact you can't use the scroll, because the scroll can be used instead of attempting to dispel and you can not attempt to dispel a spell cast with IR. This is the same thing that prevents a wizard who has failed to dispel a spell from using a dispel scroll in the same magic phase.
