7th Ed. TG vs SW for slann

[skinkyone]

temple guard vs saurus


for protecting you slann what would you use?

my reasoning behind this is that in 7th ED you can make your slann immune to mundane weapons,
so is there a real point to taking TG with him,

i mean normal saurus are good enough deterant to stop fast cav and skirm trying to swarm him. i know he goes in the front rank in a normal unit but in all honestly if you get your slann in combat it deserves to lose anyway.

 

[Aparach]

I'd say get him in a unit of 16 TGs and your pack up and ready to go!

Alternatively you field a slann without a unit to protect him and use the pts elsevere. Field a bunch of skik priests to be the slanns eyes and to get in range. Finaly you can field a few razordons in front of him to deal with enemy flankers or flying threts

But normally I deffinetly would go for the strong TG/Slann unit to give you a rockstrong center

 

[Vagrant Benthos]

temple guard vs saurus
so is there a real point to taking TG with him,

Sure, besides having a dependable center unit that will weather quite a storm, the Slaan counts as a large target for LOS purposes which allows him to see over intervening units. Additionally when the TG are engages the Slaan is still able to cast his magic missile spells, where as a Slaan in a Saurus unit who is engages wouldn't be able to cast them. Finally if the worst should happen and your Slaan bearing unit is engaged the Slaan isn't at risk of being hit and is not occupying the place where two more models could be adding their attacks to the fight. Now I admit those aren't such huge reasons to declare the TG to be the be all and end all, but they are worth considering.

 

[DonkeyHotep]

Hmm, I mostly used the etherealness ability to protect against cannons. I suppose if you gave him the battle standard and made it a war banner he could beat off things like carrion with just that. Causing terror might also be a deterrent to flank charges, but honestly, just as much as a skink chief is also an upgrade to the stegadon, the slann is an upgrade to the temple guard. Without the slann they are pretty.... underwhelming? With him they are the mega tarpit from hell, and the slann gets buff from pewing over them? Yes please! not to mention, he takes up a whopping 4 saurus spaces, this is quite damaging to the units effectiveness, even with spears.

One game I actually had success putting a slann into a group of Cold one riders. (in 6th mind you) The plan was that as soon as anything did come near them the slann chunked the COs at it and hoped they took it out, then debuffed or the like. First game, the chaos knights broke the unit and pursued into the slann and took him out. Second game, COs beat the Knights and caught them, then the slann Lore of Metal sixed another squad of knights and killed.... like 11 of them, it was nuts, especially since that squad had 4 heroes in it and the damage slopped over, talk about game breaking spells. Irresistible force too... all the heroes were Tzeench sorcerers, it was real, real, stupid.

 

[strewart]

is not occupying the place where two more models could be adding their attacks to the fight. Now I admit those aren't such huge reasons to declare the TG to be the be all and end all, but they are worth considering.

Four models if you consider that most Saurus will have spears now.. You are losing 8 s4 attacks by putting him in the front of a saurus unit, and exposing him to attack from enemy characters which will potentially be packing magic weapons to pull from their trench coats.

The Slann also gives the Temple Guard unit boosted ability, is it unbreakable or stubborn? I don't remember and am at uni so can't check. And finally, to give the Slann ethereal you are spending a whopping 50 points and a slot of his abilities that could go into magic.

Don't send a Slann to battle on its own.. Against some armies it would be safe, but there are just way too many things that could wax it, or if not kill it then beat it in combat and make it flee. You really don't want your expensive magic user and general to be nullified by cheap arse hunters. Even shooting could get him if he was on his own, or any number of fast cavalry/fliers/scouts.

 

[Vagrant Benthos]

is not occupying the place where two more models could be adding their attacks to the fight. Now I admit those aren't such huge reasons to declare the TG to be the be all and end all, but they are worth considering.

Four models if you consider that most Saurus will have spears now.

Good call, I completely spaced that.

 

[Dalkarius]

is not occupying the place where two more models could be adding their attacks to the fight. Now I admit those aren't such huge reasons to declare the TG to be the be all and end all, but they are worth considering.

Four models if you consider that most Saurus will have spears now.. You are losing 8 s4 attacks by putting him in the front of a saurus unit, and exposing him to attack from enemy characters which will potentially be packing magic weapons to pull from their trench coats.

The Slann also gives the Temple Guard unit boosted ability, is it unbreakable or stubborn? I don't remember and am at uni so can't check. And finally, to give the Slann ethereal you are spending a whopping 50 points and a slot of his abilities that could go into magic.

Don't send a Slann to battle on its own.. Against some armies it would be safe, but there are just way too many things that could wax it, or if not kill it then beat it in combat and make it flee. You really don't want your expensive magic user and general to be nullified by cheap arse hunters. Even shooting could get him if he was on his own, or any number of fast cavalry/fliers/scouts.

I recently played a game against a Shooty HE army with a Star Dragon Rider wielding magic weapons. So what did I do? I lone Slann with Regen and only touchable by magic attacks. Give em a 2+ Ward save against ranged attacks (to protect from magic) and BSB with War banner, that way je probably won't be wounded and will win Combat Rez by 1, hopefully breaking Hunter characters.

 

[strewart]

I don't get it.. The US of a dragon and lord is higher than of a lone Slann, so he would get combat res for that. And while the dragon won't hurt you (though it may, there is a very cheap item making all mundane stuff magical which I believe extends to the dragon), the rider still will pretty easily in combat. And dragons cause terror, so if you lose by just 1 you are beaten and outnumbered by fear and flee vs his 3d6 chase. Not good odds...

Best possible case, the Slann wins by 1 from the warbanner. His leadership 10 means he isn't going anywhere, and next turn you lose a wound and flee. In the meantime, you aren't shooting any magic missiles.

 

[didleoman]

TG w/ Slann gives ItP and stubborn ld 9

saurus give nothing other then spear attacks if upgaded

 

[DonkeyHotep]

Just play mazdamundi and have a stegadon, then you can be US 10 and have 2+ armor and cause terror.

 

[skinkyone]

I don't get it.. The US of a dragon and lord is higher than of a lone Slann, so he would get combat res for that. And while the dragon won't hurt you (though it may, there is a very cheap item making all mundane stuff magical which I believe extends to the dragon), the rider still will pretty easily in combat. And dragons cause terror, so if you lose by just 1 you are beaten and outnumbered by fear and flee vs his 3d6 chase. Not good odds...

Best possible case, the Slann wins by 1 from the warbanner. His leadership 10 means he isn't going anywhere, and next turn you lose a wound and flee. In the meantime, you aren't shooting any magic missiles.

magic items never transfer to mounts unless it SAY percifically that it does

 

[strewart]

Now that I am home I have had a chance to look at the book and read the wording to confirm, it extends to the unit he is with. Without doubt if it can extend to other models standing next to him, it can extend to the model he is sitting on. It always extends to dragon prince horses, since that is usually the best place to put the item IMO. So yeah I am fairly sure for 15 points he can make himself and the dragon have magic attacks.

 

[Dalkarius]

But keep in mind most HE players, unless they know they're going up against a Slann of that type, usually bring a lance and not the Amulet of Light or a magic weapon, because with a Star Dragon they're almost guranteed the Charge and those items wouldn't provide them with the strong enough kick. Plus, the Regen outta hold off the Prince.

 

[HERO]

But keep in mind most HE players, unless they know they're going up against a Slann of that type, usually bring a lance and not the Amulet of Light or a magic weapon, because with a Star Dragon they're almost guranteed the Charge and those items wouldn't provide them with the strong enough kick. Plus, the Regen outta hold off the Prince.

I play High Elves and there's 2 common setups for the Prince on Star Dragon:

Prince with Star Lance, Vambraces of Defense, Shield, Dragon Armor.
(3+ re-rollable, 4+ Ward, S7 on the charge with no Armor saves)

or you'll have:

Prince with Halberd, Armor of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, Amulet of Light.
2+ re-rollable, 4+ Ward, S5 on the charge, all attacks including Dragons' are magical)

Either way, both of these will be magical, except the second one gives the Star Dragon magical attacks as well. The latter is the most common because it offers the Prince the most protection.

 

[strewart]

I don't often use dragons in my HE armies, but those two setups both look pretty good.

Few HE all round armies will leave home without the amulet of light somewhere in their list, whether it be on a prince on dragon or in a unit (on their unit champs, since it is less than 20 points), to ward off the increasing amounts of ethereal creatures and things that get ward saves against mundane attacks but not magic.

I guess to sum up the last few posts, I'm not really sure how Dalkarius got away with running a lone Slann and not having it killed, won't work against most opponents. Even if the hunter isn't a lord and is fast cavalry or something, you are still only going to win by 1 which won't force most things to flee, and anyone would happily hold your Slann in combat where its magic is reduced using only 100 points or so of fast cav. Against the lord you described, it will beat the Slann and has plenty of leadership to stick around even if it does manage to fluff all its attacks in the first round.

We should stear the thread back on topic a bit now. TG vs SW. I think it has been summed fairly well though.

 

[Dalkarius]

My final word on the subject, lol, would be that I've fought the new High Elves a thousand times over and have yet to face a single Amulet of Light and the only Star Lance I've seen was in a 1250 list.

As for the Lone Slann living, my opponent didn't have time to kill him because I had 4 Stegadons blow his Dragon to Hell with shooting by Turn 2. Skinks rule, lol. (Plus the Bolt Throwers couldn't hit him and I had the Lore of Life so I could heal all and any wounds he could place on me)

As for SW vs. TG, TG, hands down!

 

[skinkyone]

perfectly honest if my oponant took a high elf dragon i wouldnt take a slann,

oldblood on carny FTW you might strike first but i hurt more

 

[JohnBoo]

magic items never transfer to mounts unless it SAY percifically that it does

Amulet of light says all close combat attacks by model and unit are magical. Sounds like magic dragon attacks to me!

 

[fer]

I need some clarification here...at some point I thought that Temple Guard were a core choice when they were taken with a slann but for the life of me I can't find that in the new rule book..

am I misremembering or just not seeing the rule anywhere?

I need to sort this out cause otherwise I have to majorly rework my list for a tourny tomorrow

 

[Nosreme]

There is a huge difference between warriors and TG. TG are miles ahead of Saurus. For starters, they have a better armor save, so they can weather more. Second, they are stubborn. The ethereal power is for when the Slann is NOT in a unit of TG, and floating around by himself. It won't really be needed if he's placed in a unit, as they most likely won't be able to attack him anyway. No, the real danger (and only way i've ever lost a Slann) comes from losing combat and running away, only to be run down by the enemy. This is why the TG with stubborn are essential! It significantly reduces that prospect.