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Star Trek vs. Star Wars (and a collection of memes)

Star Trek or Star Wars; which do you like better?

  • Star Trek

    Votes: 19 23.8%

  • Star Wars

    Votes: 61 76.3%
  • Total voters
    80
Killer Angel said:
Gungans are not bad... Their main problem is jar jar as protagonist.
Ewoks are just bad, full stop.
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Both films (Episodes I & VI) would have greatly benefited from their respective removal. Yes, Jar Jar is by far the worst of the Gungans, but the Gungan's didn't really add anything great to the franchise. The Gungans essentially functioned as an updated and more capable version of the Ewoks.

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Killer Angel said:
yes, pretty much. As a race, they are a more believable force to deal with.
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This is exactly what I was saying here:
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
As much as many of you dislike the Gungans, at least they have a decent level of technological understanding (with many of their weapons producing a biostatic charge that is especially effective at short-circuiting Droids), as well as especially flexible physiques that would make them athletic fighters. Ewoks have none of that.
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The main problem with the Gungans is their poor choice of poster-boy, because Jar Jar was not a good representative of the whole Gungan race (indeed he was an outcast and was going to be executed upon the order of Boss Nass when he took Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to Otoh Gunga before Qui-Gon intervened to save his life a third time).

Captain Tarpals is a much better representative, but he sadly has less screen time.

Even so, if you look beyond their biggest flaw, the Gungans are pretty cool, with their ability to grow buildings and so on.
 
Originally in Return of the Jedi, the Rebels were going to be aided by Wookies.

George Lucas really liked Wookies, but he was afraid he would only get the greenlight for one Star Wars movie, so he put Chewbacca into A New Hope. Then when they got to George Lucas direct quote here "Let's cut 'em half and call them Ewoks."

George Lucas fondness for Wookies and his George Lucas really ideas about interpersonal relationships is probably where 90% of the cringe from the Star Wars holiday special comes from.

Wookies would have made more sense and been cooler.

For all of George Lucas' good traits he had a weird love of slapstick. Even when Jar Jar was minimized there was a lot of silly slapstick breaking up serious moments in episodes 2 and 3.

That's why he overestimated how appealing Jar Jar was going to be. Apparently in real life, Jar Jar's actor, Ahmed Best is a really awesome guy and he was beloved by all his co-stars and the film crew. This seemed to give George and all the others a bias, so when they were editing shots of Phantom Menace they didn't see "annoying side character" they say "my good friend Ahmed giving his all to this scene."
 
Scalenex said:
George Lucas fondness for Wookies and his George Lucas really ideas about interpersonal relationships is probably where 90% of the cringe from the Star Wars holiday special comes from.
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His fondness for Wookies pales in comparison to his utter disdain of the Holiday Special! :D
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
His fondness for Wookies pales in comparison to his utter disdain of the Holiday Special! :D
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Scalenex said:
That's the problem. SJWs are becoming parodies of themselves so fast that satire cannot keep up. I keep thinking, at some point they have to reach a tipping point "This is crazy, we need to dial this back" but the crazy train has no brakes. I fully expect to see something within a year that is more ridiculous than the new warriors.
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NIGHTBRINGER said:
I don't think that is the way it will happen. Their rabbit hole is infinite. It is with the rest society, normal people, that I place my faith. Eventually, they'll come to a realization that this stuff is completely insane and say that enough is enough. The strength lies with the majority. Once that happens, the SJWs will become powerless. I'm sure that some will desperately cling to their delusions, but it won't matter as they'll become social/political version of flat earthers.
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debatable, although possible on some of the most radical groups. I’m fairly confident in saying that women's rights have improved significantly, and it’s highly unlikely that feminism is going to get snuffed out any time soon. Although if your looking for a really crazy group, there is always the alt-right

On a lighter note @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ewoks beating storm troopers the way they did would be pretty possible. It would be a similar Vietnam, when a technologically inferior group defeated an objectively stringer force through guerrilla tactics, knowledge of the land, and being overall more suited for their environment
 
Lizerd said:
On a lighter note @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ewoks beating storm troopers the way they did would be pretty possible. It would be a similar Vietnam, when a technologically inferior group defeated an objectively stringer force through guerrilla tactics, knowledge of the land, and being overall more suited for their environment
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i don't mind uphill battles / warfare, but:
- there's a limit to the difference in tech. Vietnam was not stones vs mech.
- the fighters must be credible. Ewoks are just too clumsy and slow to be a significant threat.

Endor should have been the SW version of Black Hawk Down. But plush soft toys are not up to the task.
 
Lizerd said:
debatable, although possible on some of the most radical groups. I’m fairly confident in saying that women's rights have improved significantly, and it’s highly unlikely that feminism is going to get snuffed out any time soon. Although if your looking for a really crazy group, there is always the alt-right

On a lighter note @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ewoks beating storm troopers the way they did would be pretty possible. It would be a similar Vietnam, when a technologically inferior group defeated an objectively stringer force through guerrilla tactics, knowledge of the land, and being overall more suited for their environment
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Killer Angel said:
i don't mind uphill battles / warfare, but:
- there's a limit to the difference in tech. Vietnam was not stones vs mech.
- the fighters must be credible. Ewoks are just too clumsy and slow to be a significant threat.

Endor should have been the SW version of Black Hawk Down. But plush soft toys are not up to the task.
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Agreed with @Killer Angel - in the case of the Vietnam War the Vietcong at least had firearms and were human like the Americans. Not only are the Ewoks using technology around 12-15,000 years more antiquated than the Empire, but they are also teddy bears around a third of the size of a Stormtrooper. Even in sci-fi, that’s stretching reality too much - it would be like having the modern SAS being beaten by cavemen just because of plot armour and that they were in the caveman territory.
 
@Killer Angel and @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl, I know I'm in the minority, but I never minded Ewoks. Naturally, I think most of this goes back to seeing the OT movies in my youth. Watching Return as an adult, I realize that Ewoks winning against stormtroopers does stretch credulity. Obviously, I think it plays to one of the major themes of Star Wars, which is the natural world, the spirit and/or the underdog being greater than machines (or "the machine"), oppression and tyranny. But, it is played a bit heavy-handed to pit simple Ewoks against the Empire.

To over analyze it, there are some things to consider. I never got the vibe that the Imperial presence physically ON Endor was "overwhelming". The Ewoks were never even factored in as a threat by the Empire, thus they were overlooked. There were a lot of Ewoks. The Ewok surprise attack threw the battle into a chaos that allowed the Rebel strike team to start the battle in earnest. In some ways, the Ewoks were more of a distraction force to allow the fewer, but superior (for the sake of the story) Rebels to fight back. I don't know when the Ewoks had time to set up all of those traps, but you could assume that they had been preparing to fight back for some time. And... apparently, stormtroopers are generic fighters at best and their armor is primarily decorative.

Gungans on the other hand I don't like, and I'm sure it IS because I'm not a fan of JarJar. Plus, it's also likely due to seeing the PT as an adult, with my own opinions about what the Star Wars universe should be like. However, Gungans just come across as slapstick for slapstick's sake, and they have an odd vibe of being primitive yet with advanced technology. Conveniently, that technology is perfect for killing droids. Regardless, once again, it is part of the Star Wars theme of the natural world overcoming the machine world.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
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This is going to sound so goofy, but I think the story of Tai Lung (from Kung Fu Panda) is a strong (maybe stronger?) model for what the fall of Anakin could have been. Obviously, there are some similarities in the story already.

But, Anakin being trained by Obi-wan as "The Chosen One" (since Lucas introduced that concept), only to be denied by the council (or maybe just Master Yoda), could really push Anakin over the edge. Anakin feels he's entitled to his status and will take any path to ensure his ascension, even choosing the "quick and easy path" of the Dark Side. "When I left you I was but the learner. Now, *I* am the master."
 
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