Star Trek vs. Star Wars (and a collection of memes)

[Scalenex]

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[- Q -]

 

[Killer Angel]

 

[- Q -]

I did not know this about my namesake

 

[- Q -]

 

[- Q -]

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

An curious relic of Star Wars history... a letter from the editor of a fanzine called Against the Sith (interesting that the concept of the Sith as the polar opposite of the Jedi was around in the Original Trilogy era, despite their existence never being mentioned in Episodes IV-VI and certainly Episode IV suggesting Vader was a Dark Jedi rather than a Sith), announcing their decision to openly cease production of the fanzine in early 1981 because they (and a good few other people) didn't like Episode V when it came out the previous year:

Interesting that the word 'fandom' is used here even in the early 80s - I thought it was a much more modern term.

Looking at this serves as a nice little time capsule from that era when Star Wars was just getting to its feet, and it is most amusing to see that where today, the Original Trilogy is hero-worshipped by nostalgic 70s and 80s kids everywhere, it is seen as a flawless benchmark of sci-fi filmmaking and it is deemed sacrilege to tarnish its reputation (particularly, funnily enough, Episode V), back in the day opinions were very different - even then the fandom was divided between the original films, and disputing what sort of storylines and tones the franchise should have. One of the supposedly greatest films of all time, in the eyes of many today, is described here as "a dead thing with no life" and "a peeled zero" with "so little to recommend", that "fractured individual fans' emotions" and the fandom as a whole, and that "no one ha[d] any clear idea of what the film [wa]s really all about", even to the point of conjecturing that the film's creators allegedly also didn't know what they were doing. Some people at that time already considered giving up on the trilogy, and Star Wars as a whole, after having their expectations tarnished - the creators of the fanzine included. At the time, many viewers must have very clearly viewed Episode V as having its own set of flaws, flaws that people these days have either forgotten, or are willing to look past for the sake of 'nostalgia'.

I can also imagine that the Ewoks would have caused as much, or even more, division when Episode VI came out - with different groups of fans either seeing them as too silly and childish (as I certainly have come to view them) or just another part of the family-friendly themes intended for the OT - and of course, we all know the Tragedy of the Star Wars 'Holiday' Special, which still probably remains even more hated than the Sequel Trilogy is.

And in general, it just goes to show that, even in the Original Trilogy era, before the Prequels were considered, people have very often set especially strict expectations for Star Wars content, and that if those expectations are dashed by anything, even if the offending content changes relatively little in the saga's formula as Episode V did (certainly in comparison to the Prequel Trilogy or the 'gotcha' moments of Episode VIII), many people consider themselves disappointed. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I certainly have my own regarding the different Star Wars films as everyone knows, but it wouldn't surprise me if, even in the 80s, different individuals handled that disappointment with varying levels of maturity... and though I certainly agree with Drinker and the others that Kathleen Kennedy's resignation speech was mean-spirited, and very much deflected the blame away from her own poor and Wokism-influenced decisions with regards to many of her substandard Star Wars creations, she did make one small point I'd agree with - that not everyone will be satisfied with any Star Wars content produced, regardless of whether it makes some genuinely bad mistakes (as per the Sequel Trilogy), or if it simply set out to do something very different to the original themes that some fans of the OT didn't like (like the Prequel Trilogy, Rogue One and Andor... and even Episode V to a much smaller extent). Of course... just how many people will be satisfied with the content depends whether it was made with the genuine intention of enriching the franchise (as most people recognise the Prequels for now) or purely for a cash-grab or to push a woke agenda (as most people will continue to dislike the Sequels for and Kennedy shamelessly tried to avoid acknowledging), but the point stands.

With Dave Filoni heading the next era of Star Wars content and teasing a new Darth Maul series that at least doesn't look woke, it will be interesting to see the fan reaction towards this said new era's creations, and whether people will consider coming back to the franchise. No doubt there will still be discontent and indifference (especially as I'm waiting for anything non-Mandalorian-oriented to come to the pictures as I will never subscribe to the evil of streaming), but maybe now that Kennedy is gone, there may be hope that something might earn some fan approval. And at the end of the day, everyone has their own opinions, and, as Qui-Gon Jinn himself once said in a deleted scene of Episode I, it is best to just accept those of others, even if they very much disagree with yours in ways you'll never understand (as I'll never understand with OT fans, or the one man and his dog that like the Sequels ).

 

[Killer Angel]

"To us, TESB is a dead thing with no life".

Well, that aged poorly

 

[Scalenex]

I did not know this about my namesake

I like you as a L-O member.

I'm not a fan of Q as a character. I feel like he was lazy writing. More importantly, Q was an interesting concept at first, but every time Q shows up, his character is less cool than it was before.

He is 8 episodes of TNG, 3 episodes of Voyager, 1 episode of DS9, and 1 episode of Lower Decks (I am not a huge fan of Lower Decks, but I really like how they treated Q). I will will not speak of the Picard series for it does it not exist.

In my perfect world, Q would have not been in Voyager at all, those episodes were super cringy to me. Q would have been 4 episodes of TNG and the two one-offs.

Along similar lines. I really like the Star Trek Mirror Universe as a concept BUT there are way too many Mirror Universe episodes in DS9. Mirror Universes should be a Sometimes Food. There were 5 Mirror universe episodes in DS9 and maybe two of them were good.

Deep Space Nine did introduce a few extremely powerful alien entities that were vaguely Q-like. They had the opposite problem, not enough screen time. In the DS9 Season 1 episode "If Wishes Were Horses" they encountered aliens who could literally bring imaginations to life. They told Sisko they would visit again later and they never did.

 

[- Q -]

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I'm not a fan of Q as a character.

From what I've gathered he is a polarizing character. People either love him or hate him. I obviously love the character, but I'm only too happy to accept that others do not.

More importantly, Q was an interesting concept at first, but every time Q shows up, his character is less cool than it was before.

I would say that depends. If we look at his appearances across the seven seasons of TNG, I think one could argue that he actually gets better. Two of his very best episodes, "Tapestry" and "All Good Things..." aired as part of the last two seasons of series.

If we consider his appearances in other Star Trek series, then I see your point. He was clearly the best in TNG. His interactions with Picard are really what makes the character so great, and none of the other Star Trek shows could match that. They simply didn't have a compatible dance partner for him. I still liked him in those series, but I can see where you are coming from.

As I said though, I respect that others may feel differently.

Q would have been 4 episodes of TNG

Which four would you select to keep?

 

[Scalenex]

Which four would you select to keep?

I watched through Deep Space Nine five or six times.

I watched TNG through once plus a few episodes watched randomly. My knowledge of TNG is not enclyopedic. I just remember "Oh, cool another Q episode!" gradually became "Ugh, another Q episode!"

I only have second-hand information to go on, so I can't name the episodes, but apparently some of the Q episodes were fan submitted scripts and they were of purportedly of lower quality.

 

[BrotherSutek]

I watched through Deep Space Nine five or six times.

I watched TNG through once plus a few episodes watched randomly. My knowledge of TNG is not enclyopedic. I just remember "Oh, cool another Q episode!" gradually became "Ugh, another Q episode!"

I only have second-hand information to go on, so I can't name the episodes, but apparently some of the Q episodes were fan submitted scripts and they were of purportedly of lower quality.

I feel this way about Data as well. At first he was interesting and I enjoyed his episodes. I also think the episode The making of a man, I think it was called that, was my favorite Riker and Data episode. However they stopped being interesting and just tread the same water as earlier ideas. IMO. Q started off interesting and the actor is fantastic but the special feel of him wasn't in all the episodes and I hated him in other shows. Even though Sisco is my second favorite Captain I didn't like their interaction.

 

[- Q -]

I watched through Deep Space Nine five or six times.

I watched TNG through once plus a few episodes watched randomly.

I'm probably a bit more of the opposite, though I can't say that I've watched TNG as many times as you have watched DS9.

My knowledge of TNG is not enclyopedic. I just remember "Oh, cool another Q episode!" gradually became "Ugh, another Q episode!"

Which is perfectly fair. Some like him and some don't. A polarizing figure.

I only have second-hand information to go on, so I can't name the episodes, but apparently some of the Q episodes were fan submitted scripts and they were of purportedly of lower quality.

For what it is worth, this is Google Gemini's take on it:

Even though Sisco is my second favorite Captain I didn't like their interaction.

Yeah, their interaction was a far cry from Q & Picard. They try to play Sisko off as being this tough badass, when Q could easily snap them all out of existence. The attempted tough guy angle was better played by Worf vs Q.

 

[- Q -]

 

[BrotherSutek]

Yeah, their interaction was a far cry from Q & Picard. They try to play Sisko off as being this tough badass, when Q could easily snap them all out of existence. The attempted tough guy angle was better played by Worf vs Q.[/QUOTE]

Scary part is that Q could snap a blue barrel into reality and we all know that is Worfs nemesis.

 

[- Q -]

Scary part is that Q could snap a blue barrel into reality and we all know that is Worfs nemesis.