AoS NEW *rumor*

[Dread Saurian]

Huh, that's interesting how they work with battleline.

Its no different than thunderlizard using stegadons as a battleline

 

[Putzfrau]

In Canas's defence the ability he's referencing allows one CPU to apply to all units within range so you could get to the numbers he's talking about in his latest post. still not good but he's right as far as what numbers you could get to

Ah, I see how it works now. Thats my mistake. Was confusing the battle trait for the command ability. However, after relooking at the wording, it doesn't seem like it would allow the shooting attack to be stackable.

 

[xoid]

Its no different than thunderlizard using stegadons as a battleline

I was more referring to being able to put three in one unit and having them count as three battleline.

 

[Canas]

Ah, I see how it works now. Thats my mistake. Was confusing the battle trait for the command ability. However, after relooking at the wording, it doesn't seem like it would allow the shooting attack to be stackable.

Why? I don't see any limits in the phrasing. Usually it'd say things like "a unit can only benefit from this ability once per turn" or something like that.

 

[Canas]

Some info about how gargants work as mercenaries. Nothing too exciting except for the undead one having a minor version of our stegadon's flamethrowers for some reason.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Why? I don't see any limits in the phrasing. Usually it'd say things like "a unit can only benefit from this ability once per turn" or something like that.

Even if you could put more than one CP into it it's not worth it

 

[Putzfrau]

Why? I don't see any limits in the phrasing. Usually it'd say things like "a unit can only benefit from this ability once per turn" or something like that.

Because the CA doesn't activate the ability just allows all gargants to be effected.

"You can use this command ability at the start of the shooting phase. If you do so, when you use the Chuck Rock battle trait you can pick all friendly units..."

Even if you were to spend multiple points it doesn't let you use the battle trait multiple times.

We will need to see exactly what the surrounding language if the battle trait is to know for sure.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

also a new Rumour Engine is up:

View attachment 80715

My first impression is maybe 40K Tyranids?!

Grrr, Imrahil

I’d say Tyranids because of the carapace along the length of the tail, that’s Tyranid models to a tee. The chain could be part of some wreckage that the Tyranid is smashing through, so I’m thinking a plastic model for the Red Terror, a Ravener character whose current model dates to around 3rd Edition 40K I think (the only other non-plastic Tyranid models around are the one Lictor sculpt, Deathleaper, the one Biovore sculpt and the one Pyrovore sculpt, and that tail wouldn’t fit well on any of those)

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

New rumour engine is up, probably Death or maybe Destruction cause I remember seeing a Vulture on one model somewhere, a lot of carrion birds they love to show off. Hey, means more models for my Rourvuk Carrion project cause it's been hard to get hold of the parts for the models.
View attachment 80193

That thing it's perched on gives something of a dark elf vibe for some reason though as pointed out vultures tend to be associated with death. Must be Eyptian themed vampires with vultures and vamp-cat people and a return of all the old yet viable molds from tomb kings that are not skeletons lie the necrosphinx!

I would say it’s for a Destruction faction because Undead vultures are most often skeletal (as are the ones in the old Tomb Guard and new Kavalos Deathriders kits), while this one looks in the picture of health (for a vulture anyway)

I guess that bird could work with the grots on wolves, given that those are hun/mongol based and those hunt with birds, similar aesthetic as some of the beastclaw raiders who also have a hunting bird.

Yes! I’m agreeing with this, as it’d be great to have Mongol Hobgoblin Vulture falconers who use their vultures as missile weapons, and it also mimics the Ogre Kingdoms’ Thundertusk kit which, as you say, contains a vulture that is perched on the arm of the Hunter option.

 

[Canas]

Because the CA doesn't activate the ability just allows all gargants to be effected.

"You can use this command ability at the start of the shooting phase. If you do so, when you use the Chuck Rock battle trait you can pick all friendly units..."

Even if you were to spend multiple points it doesn't let you use the battle trait multiple times.

We will need to see exactly what the surrounding language if the battle trait is to know for sure.

Aaaah, I thought throwing the rocks with 1 unit was the CA and throwing it with all Gargants was the trait. In that case yeah, doesn't seem like you can stack it to get multiple shots in and you're limited to 6 or 7 D3 shots in one turn.

Well that's significantly less impressive, though it remains annoying to deal with when you rely on squishy support heroes.

I still find he basic design of the gargants annoying though, the fact that they still end up basicly breaking certain lists, which are normally completly viable and sensible, because the tools those lists rely on just don't work against single entity targets with 35 wounds & a generous degredation table just really rubs me the wrong way. In most other cases the basic tools at least still work, even if they're suboptimal against a given target.

 

[Putzfrau]

though it remains annoying to deal with when you rely on squishy support heroes.

With KO, seraphon, and LRL being really good, and shootcast getting more and more popular with the points drops, squishy support heroes were always going to have a rough time. I think Gargants need to have these unique rules to be viable at all. It's an army with zero board presence, so it needs certain abilities and attributes to make up for all the shortcomings of only having ~8 models in an entire army or whatever it is. Just the lack of screens is massive. Without a generous degradation table, it would be dead easy to ping a few wounds on the big guys and be essentially immune from any kind of serious damage.

Again, I think your assertion that "because the tools those lists rely on just don't work against single entity targets..." is way overblown. There is no army in the game that only does damage through a means that gargants primarily prevent. It certainly means some methods of damage are more effective than others, but again thats the case for literally all armies.

Stellar tempest is great against Gits or even DoK, less good against Eels. Scaly skin provides almost gamebreaking protection against some armies damage and is useless against others. This is not a new problem, and is something all armies and all lists should be able to play around.

I honestly just don't see what there is to complain about. I guess we'll see when the book comes out.

 

[Canas]

With KO, seraphon, and LRL being really good, and shootcast getting more and more popular with the points drops, squishy support heroes were always going to have a rough time.

Yeah, I wish they'd provide something more significant than a -1 to hit to protect squishy support heroes. All that stands between say a starpriest and death is basicly a stray bullet.

I think Gargants need to have these unique rules to be viable at all. It's an army with zero board presence, so it needs certain abilities and attributes to make up for all the shortcomings of only having ~8 models in an entire army or whatever it is. Just the lack of screens is massive.

O true, without these advantages the faction falls apart completly. To be honest I'd rather simply not have an all-behemoth faction.

Or at least start introducing anti-single entity mechanics similar to how we have anti-horde attacks. At least if there was an anti-behemoth spell magic as a whole wouldn't fall flat against them you'd just need to switch spells.

Again, I think your assertion that "because the tools those lists rely on just don't work against single entity targets..." is way overblown. There is no army in the game that only does damage through a means that gargants primarily prevent. It certainly means some methods of damage are more effective than others, but again thats the case for literally all armies.

Most factions have some option that works. It just frustrates me that entire lists are made invalid. Yeah we still got salamander spam, but it annoys me that for example a magic-based list just won't achieve much due to spells not doing anywhere near enough damage against something with 35 wounds. Let alone 2 or 3 gargants all of whom have 35 wounds.

Also, I'm curious what the lumineth will end up doing against them. The only option they seem to have is stacking archers and praying to Teclis they can shoot down the Gargants before they reach them. Though at least they have some CC-type of spells so I guess that might help.

Stellar tempest is great against Gits or even DoK, less good against Eels. Scaly skin provides almost gamebreaking protection against some armies damage and is useless against others.

Sure, but stellar tempest still does something against eels, and if nothing else you can at least switch to arcane bolt. Eels don't invalidate basicly every spell due to them doing a insignificant amount of damage.

Scaly skin I'm not a fan of either due to the large variance in value, and its indeed problematic when the army facing it relies on 2-damage attacks. Though fortunatly most armies have varied enough attacks that it doesn't outright break them. Plus, fortunatly we have virtually no defensese outside of scaly skin, so it's not like we ever turn immortal. If we could combine it with a powerfull wardsave or re-rollable 2+ nonsense it'd be absolutly ridiculous.

Anyway, stuff that's gamebreaking against 1 army but barely usefull against others aren't good rules.

 

[Putzfrau]

Sure, but stellar tempest still does something against eels, and if nothing else you can at least switch to arcane bolt. Eels don't invalidate basicly every spell due to them doing a insignificant amount of damage.

Scaly skin I'm not a fan of either due to the large variance in value, and its indeed problematic when the army facing it relies on 2-damage attacks. Though fortunatly most armies have varied enough attacks that it doesn't outright break them. Plus, fortunatly we have virtually no defensese outside of scaly skin, so it's not like we ever turn immortal. If we could combine it with a powerfull wardsave or re-rollable 2+ nonsense it'd be absolutly ridiculous.

Anyway, stuff that's gamebreaking against 1 army but barely usefull against others aren't good rules.

Honestly i agree with a lot of the points you make in the first half of your post. But i think "still does something against eels" is kind of exactly the thought process you need to have with the gargants. Certain spells won't be as powerful but they'll still "do something."

SOB armies won't be overly wound heavily, so i'm not sure what magic you're thinking will be "useless"?

Either way, like i said i largely agree with your point of "wish there wasn't a behemoth army." I wish there wasn't a full shooting army in KO, i think those armies that skew super hard in one direction always create problems in a system like AoS. However, I do think that SoB's rules seem to be pretty whatever at the moment but super interested to see how they'll be on the table. They'll definitely be different!

 

[Dread Saurian]

I was more referring to being able to put three in one unit and having them count as three battleline.

Ahh yes clarification is best thank you

 

[Acehilator]

also a new Rumour Engine is up:

View attachment 80715

My first impression is maybe 40K Tyranids?!

Grrr, Imrahil

Not really an idea what it is, but it's not Nids. The armour plates share some design cues, but are missing others, and the spiked end is 100% wrong. Nids don't have "barbed" tips on their appendages, always straight, clean lines. The spike in the what I guess is a horn or armour plate on the left reminds me of the Orruk guy on Mawcrusher. A smaller demon riding a big demonic mount?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

ah found the gas in gargants this makes warstompers legitimately good

 

[Killer Angel]

Honestly i agree with a lot of the points you make in the first half of your post. But i think "still does something against eels" is kind of exactly the thought process you need to have with the gargants. Certain spells won't be as powerful but they'll still "do something."

I think the point was that "do something" against eels is that you can kill some, so their killing power is diminished.
With gargants 5-6 damages are not helping that much. They act almost at full power til you take 'em down.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Not really an idea what it is, but it's not Nids. The armour plates share some design cues, but are missing others, and the spiked end is 100% wrong. Nids don't have "barbed" tips on their appendages, always straight, clean lines. The spike in the what I guess is a horn or armour plate on the left reminds me of the Orruk guy on Mawcrusher. A smaller demon riding a big demonic mount?

The prehensile pincer and toxinspike tails from the Trygon kit are both barbed, so it’s still possible that it’s something for Tyranids like the Red Terror

 

[Killer Angel]

Most factions have some option that works. It just frustrates me that entire lists are made invalid. Yeah we still got salamander spam, but it annoys me that for example a magic-based list just won't achieve much due to spells not doing anywhere near enough damage against something with 35 wounds. Let alone 2 or 3 gargants all of whom have 35 wounds.

We'll arrive at the point where, if you don't know what you are going to face, you will use a variation of the same list.
If a thing is good vs single models, a second thing is good vs hordes and a third thing is good vs both of them, you are going to just spam the third.

Who knows? maybe i'll be proved wrong.

Anyway, stuff that's gamebreaking against 1 army but barely usefull against others aren't good rules.

100% true.

 

[Acehilator]

The prehensile pincer and toxinspike tails from the Trygon kit are both barbed, so it’s still possible that it’s something for Tyranids like the Red Terror

Good call, but only on one side (the "inside"). Red Terror is still only a fancy Ravener, so no (and a new model will be modeled closer to the current Ravener kit). And the nail through the plate doesn't fit at all. That's not a 40k kit.