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8th Ed. New Lizardman army book and info

Different experiences, I guess, my Saurus either completely wipe out an opponent or the combat was close, in either case the rule won't affect me. I can't actually remember the last time my Saurus didn't pursue when they could.
 
Stormfrog said:
Right, here are my two cents if anyone cares enough to read them...

I have not actually read the new book, and I must say that all of what i'v read here and on warseer falls a little short of my hopes. But there you are. I am of the opinion that rather then bitch and moan about the content, we should rather sit back and say to ourselves "Right, this is what we have to work with. How do we make this good?". I mean really, have you seen the Wood Elf forums? They absolutely love their army, despite it being the weakest in current edition. Despite the failings of the new book, we will still be a far shot from weak, so how about a little constructive ideas instead of good old fashioned moaning? I have girlfriend for that, don't need it on my favorite forum.

My biggest confusion is the hatred people have for Ripperdactyls. Why, oh why? Oh, they are frenzied fliers with low leadership, is that it? Aye, I can definately see the issue. Or rather, what would be the issue if they were unable to, you know, FLY! Moonwalk them! Seriously, there is another relativly new book out there who recived their new frenzied, flying monsterous infantry with low leadership (And not cold blooded, mind) not to long ago, and they LOVE them. If they can come to love theirs, can't we atleast like ours? In my mind, they are excellent war machine hunters, and quite good bunker killers as well. Pop the toad in whatever Zombie, Skaven slave, goblin, Skeleton archer, horror block of 20 the enemy caster is hiding in and munch away. With streangth 4, armor piercing, D3+1 attacks and re-roll to hit, these guys are great at this duty.

The Slaan lost power, but gained in versatility. We can now either choose to have all eight signatures (Tried templeguard with wyssans, earthblood and using the razor banner. Do it) or we can have all 8 spells of high magic and switch them around to our hearts content to match ANY situation! I quite like him as printed so far.

Saying saurus got worse is also six shades of silly. They are just the same as before. But can generate attacks on 6's. And free spears. Sorry, where was the bad part? You mean this little here added frenzy clause that might just happen once a century? I dont know about you, but I was going to sport atleast 2 skink priests in my lists anyway, so what do I mind if they are actually even more usefull.

Skink skirmishers are fine. More than fine. Fantastic. Last weekend I went to a tournament and spoke quite a bit to one of Swedens leading players. He was playing lizardmen during this tourney and was of the opinion that skink skirmishers are just broken. Faaaar to good he said. Guess what? We still have them!

Skroxes did take a hit by allowing the kroxigors to get beaten up, this is true. Thats just a nerf, plain and simple. No need to dress it up. Just live with it and work around it.

Cold ones was a rather odd choice by GW. Quite a few stupid rule setups here. But in the end, are they better than before? Lost magic banners, thats sad. Gained a str 4 attack and dropped a point. Nice synergy with horn of kygor. Also gained predatory fighter. Not as much a buff as i might have wanted. Still better than before!

Stegadons got better across the board. EoTG got better in my opinion. Cheaper to. And the D3 wound impact hits just makes me giggle every time i imagine him charging anything with more than 1 wound.

Salamanders got, in my opinion, a little better. Lost march and shoot, gained a point in streangth. If elves bitched about them before....

and so on and so on. Stop comparing the book with the one you dreamed about, and just compare it to the last book we have. Then draw conclusions. A better book is still a better book. Answer me this: Add upp all the changes made to units that were around in the old book. When added up, are they on the whole, positive changes? I think so.

Yes, we have a few things in the book that makes me wonder what GW were thinking. The Bastiladon and Troglodon come to mind. Even if I only cared about the money, i'd make damn sure I made all the new stuff fantastic (See Terrorgheists). So I must say that was odd. But this is what we have to work with. Period. Moaning on the internet wont make the Troglodon better. So lets man up (Or lizard up), and go beat the I swear too much out of the opposition cold-blood style, just like we allways have!

PS. Sorry for getting a little bit preachy, not to mention sarcastic.
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But that is what alot of people are bitching about. Its the same bloody book. Just swap ripperdactyls for basic and probably more usefull teradactyls and boom. same list as every1 has ever used before.
What we wanted was something new. Something new in core, in special, in rare or whatever that is usefull.
And the skrox unit didnt just get a nerf. A nerf would be saying it can be stomped. No it got obliterated. Its now useless to a point where it cant be run. In 7th ed it wasnt so bad as people could hit the skinks for combat res, leaving you with the krox to fight back, or just hit the krox but with only the front rank fighting it was unlikley to kill them all. Now though, not a single use for them.
 
What are you fighting with saurus to win so well?

It's the same problem as with Ripperractyls. Yes you could wipe out blocks of low quality troops. But are these things really dangerous to require a specific counter? Don't we already have plenty of tools for that?

Stormfrog, the major problem with Ripperractyls is that the are glass cannons which give the enemy a chance tto kill them first or simultaneously because they have low initiative poor toughness and armour save. That thry can't roam enemy lines looking for targets of opportunity because of frenzy is a second weakness.

And no, thr changes aren't broadly positive. We have the same overcosted and underperfoming units as before, a bunch ofnew things with poor value, and even further restrictions on versatility than before. A complete missed opportunity to inject new life in the book by getting us to switch things up. Look at the radical overhauls that high elves,Warriors and daemons got for better or worse. We actually took a step backwards and got more restrictive.

The only thing that I'm coming around to are solar engines. Might try 2.
 
Chunk said:
Different experiences, I guess, my Saurus either completely wipe out an opponent or the combat was close, in either case the rule won't affect me. I can't actually remember the last time my Saurus didn't pursue when they could.
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What do you run your Saurus into that they totally wipe out? I either find I have a choice between sending them against massive units of cheap dross that will take them 3-4 turn to cut down through (Empire halberdiers, night goblins, Skaven slaves/clan rats) or units so nasty that they don't have a prayer of winning (swordsmasters, white lions, chaos warriors/chosen, any kind of monster/MC).
 
Reddogfish said:
I find it quite hilarious that I have thought of how to use Skrox when I dont even really play lizardmen but everyone in here just sees how they can be pasted...

:mad:

sorry just wanted to use a smiley...

So where in the book does it say Krox have to be in the second rank... no where... because they can be placed in the front rank. if you expect to face low S and T troops prob running them in the front would be best use...

But anything other than that... and why not run them in the third rank.

Think about it.

Your opponent charges in his.... bloodcrushers... bloodknights.... insert silly blood name here....
in and can only target the skinks cause they are all they can reach.

After wiping out a rank or more of crap troops your krox are moved forward... not illegally... but because of the step up rule and the idea it is not actually models from the rear that die... that is simply how they are taken for convience...

So now you have not lost any krox... and you get to swing with full attacks and also the skink attacks.

bam..... prob solved... any unit that is unlikely to wipe out a rank of skinks... should not really warrant fear from a krox and therefore you can simply reform to move them forward.

With pred fighter krox could do some serious damage to something in this way...

So.... :artist: how good am i.... lol.
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I think you're on to something. Something involving hordes.
 
Stormfrog said:
Right, here are my two cents if anyone cares enough to read them...

I have not actually read the new book,
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Can I say from the outset that I'm not optimistic, commenting on something you've not read at all is unwise to say the least. While I've only had an hour with someone else's copy I do at least know what it says.

My biggest confusion is the hatred people have for Ripperdactyls. Why, oh why? Oh, they are frenzied fliers with low leadership, is that it? Aye, I can definately see the issue. Or rather, what would be the issue if they were unable to, you know, FLY! Moonwalk them! Seriously, there is another relativly new book out there who recived their new frenzied, flying monsterous infantry with low leadership (And not cold blooded, mind) not to long ago, and they LOVE them. If they can come to love theirs, can't we atleast like ours? In my mind, they are excellent war machine hunters, and quite good bunker killers as well. Pop the toad in whatever Zombie, Skaven slave, goblin, Skeleton archer, horror block of 20 the enemy caster is hiding in and munch away. With streangth 4, armor piercing, D3+1 attacks and re-roll to hit, these guys are great at this duty.
Click to expand...

The thing is terradons and chameleons make better WM hunters, don't have a roughly 50% chance of being baited into an unrealistic/undesirable charge and can't be led around the board by the nose. Their terminal lack of resilience only compounds the problem.

Saying saurus got worse is also six shades of silly. They are just the same as before. But can generate attacks on 6's. And free spears. Sorry, where was the bad part? You mean this little here added frenzy clause that might just happen once a century? I dont know about you, but I was going to sport atleast 2 skink priests in my lists anyway, so what do I mind if they are actually even more usefull.
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"Once a century"? Your Saurus don't win combat very often then? I'll admit that if your Saurus are losing combat all over the place being forced to pursue out of position is going to be the least of your problems.

Skink skirmishers are fine. More than fine. Fantastic. Last weekend I went to a tournament and spoke quite a bit to one of Swedens leading players. He was playing lizardmen during this tourney and was of the opinion that skink skirmishers are just broken. Faaaar to good he said. Guess what? We still have them!
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I couldn't agree more. The problem they they're the only core unit we have that is still worth taking. Do you know how many units of skink Skirmishers a needed to fill a 750pt core allowance?
Stegadons got better across the board. EoTG got better in my opinion. Cheaper to. And the D3 wound impact hits just makes me giggle every time i imagine him charging anything with more than 1 wound.
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How did the EotG get better, all its abilities got nerfed into the ground. It can now do three things and all of them are a complete irrelevance, and it costs 50pts to upgrade it? I really can't see why you wouldn't just take a regular ancient and save yourself 50pts.

Salamanders got, in my opinion, a little better. Lost march and shoot, gained a point in streangth. If elves bitched about them before....
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Yep, strength 4 makes them a must-take for another edition, great balancing of the book there...

and so on and so on. Stop comparing the book with the one you dreamed about, and just compare it to the last book we have. Then draw conclusions. A better book is still a better book. Answer me this: Add upp all the changes made to units that were around in the old book. When added up, are they on the whole, positive changes? I think so.
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Is that a joke, the last Lizardmen book was an overpowered monstrosity, this new thing is lower middle tier at best. It is not in any way better than the old one, there are maybe three units that have really improved, and two of them are stegadons.
 
Stormfrog said:
Is that a joke, the last Lizardmen book was an overpowered monstrosity, this new thing is lower middle tier at best. It is not in any way better than the old one, there are maybe three units that have really improved, and two of them are stegadons.
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IMHO I prefer playing as a lower-tier army. It's just not fun when you stomp your enemy into the ground. Even when playing I fielded a Khannon once and, to be honest, it felt awful. I think the predatory fighter rule is very fluffy, including the skink thing. After all, a Slann needs about 10 minutes to say something, and I can't imgine a Slann shouting. Maybe it would be more logical if saurus characters also counted.
Also, about the ripperdactyls, or whatever his face was, just keep them in your bubble. you can later fly over your enemy's gigant horde of deadly deadliness, and then start eating his smaller units. It surely will take time to learn how to play those guys, but 3+d3 attacks against a unit is great.

(I think the bloat rage works like frenzy, but it grants 1+d3 attacks instead of one. :jimlad: )
 
A Total Newb said:
Stormfrog said:
Is that a joke, the last Lizardmen book was an overpowered monstrosity, this new thing is lower middle tier at best. It is not in any way better than the old one, there are maybe three units that have really improved, and two of them are stegadons.
Click to expand...
IMHO I prefer playing as a lower-tier army. It's just not fun when you stomp your enemy into the ground. Even when playing I fielded a Khannon once and, to be honest, it felt awful. I think the predatory fighter rule is very fluffy, including the skink thing. After all, a Slann needs about 10 minutes to say something, and I can't imgine a Slann shouting. Maybe it would be more logical if saurus characters also counted.
Also, about the ripperdactyls, or whatever his face was, just keep them in your bubble. you can later fly over your enemy's gigant horde of deadly deadliness, and then start eating his smaller units. It surely will take time to learn how to play those guys, but 3+d3 attacks against a unit is great.

(I think the bloat rage works like frenzy, but it grants 1+d3 attacks instead of one. :jimlad: )
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I don't mind that the army won't be top of the pile any more, I'm my opponents will appreciate it (although I'd stopped using my Slann because he was too powerful, it will be nice to et him out again and not feel like a jerk).

I'm just feeling a little flat about the whole thing. All the new units seem to be either average (Bastilodon) or downright awful (ripperdactyls, troglodon) and everything else has pretty much stayed the same. I'm slightly envious of the other armies that got books recently like high elves who got some really strong new units and magic items or daemons who got loads of cool things. Lizardmen seems to have failed on the "shiny new things" score because all of our new things look decidedly rusty (and I'm not talking about the ripperdactyls colour scheme).
 
arcabis said:
ok i got the book no skink high priest

no slow to fire on sallys
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Can slann have 8 sig spells or loremaster high AND generate 4 spells from X lore?
 
arcabis said:
ok i got the book no skink high priest

no slow to fire on sallys
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You got the book. :jawdrop:

Tell us more.
 
i didnt read it all yeat

so skink cohort 5pt/model
+2pt the poison attack

mazdamundi pts!!!

sallys 80 pts S4

no magic banner for CoC
 
Well, at least we don't have any absolutely unusuable units like the Hellflayer, Seeker charitos, Exalted seeker chariots and flamers XD (except the trog and carno, but let's be honest, we can't make a good monster unless it's cheap or has a 4+ ward)

Also I'm glad that we don't have any must-have units. Skirmishers are great and you can't go wrong with good old saurus.
 
balistadon is 150 pts and can change to solar beam for free

EotG 6+ ward and 4d6" d6 s4 hits is pasive and we have it all the time
 
Passive? What do you mean? It's not a bound spell?
...
...
IMPOSIBRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU :jawdrop:
 
i mean you don't pay point's to take this two it's bound spell lvl 3
 
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