8th Ed. New Lizardman army book and info

[Qupakoco]

Is it confirmed that the 6++ save from the Engine stacks? Or is that just for the chosen lore? Either way, pretty sweet you can get them all at once. Don't have to worry about losing your parry save on Spear Saurus now.

 

[GCPD]

The 6++ doesn't stack.

I'm not worried about Ogres or monsters. Its the Skullcrushers that I want to put the fear of Sotek in to.

 

[rothgar13]

Fair enough - then I'd say that 300 points for D6+1 S6 (D3) Impact Hits, a 6+ Ward save bubble, and 5 T6 Wounds with a 3+ save will give them a fair share of problems.

 

[Spiney Norman]

Wait, Saurus infantry spears cost nothing, and Saurus cavalry spears cost 4pts...

Is this for real? Doesn't anyone on the design team have any knowledge of how the game works? I mean really, how did they assign these points value, a game of spin the bottle?

 

[GCPD]

Wait, Saurus infantry spears cost nothing, and Saurus cavalry spears cost 4pts...

Is this for real? Doesn't anyone on the design team have any knowledge of how the game works? I mean really, how did they assign these points value, a game of spin the bottle?

Its for real. Costings are all over the place in this book, and don't make any sense at all. See: Cold One Spears, Terradon Flaming Bolas, Ancient Stegadons vs regular Stegadons, Scar-Veterans, Skink Cohort CC poison, Jungle Swarms costing the same as Skink Skirmishers or Chameleon Skinks... My post at the top of the previous page goes into great detail about it.

 

[Qupakoco]

Do Cold One Cavalry get a parry save if they run without spears, or is that just an infantry thing? I've never had cavalry with that option so I'm just wondering. Might be enough to persuade me to start ripping arms off some of my models. I think I have a bin of hand weapon arms sitting around...

 

[arcabis]

as i see in the rule book it doesn't say anything about infantry or not so they got parry

 

[GCPD]

Do Cold One Cavalry get a parry save if they run without spears, or is that just an infantry thing? I've never had cavalry with that option so I'm just wondering. Might be enough to persuade me to start ripping arms off some of my models. I think I have a bin of hand weapon arms sitting around...

Only models on foot get a parry save. Its under the entry in the BRB.

I believe that only Mournfang get a Parry whilst mounted because... well I'm sure there's a reason.

 

[Spiney Norman]

Wait, Saurus infantry spears cost nothing, and Saurus cavalry spears cost 4pts...

Is this for real? Doesn't anyone on the design team have any knowledge of how the game works? I mean really, how did they assign these points value, a game of spin the bottle?

Its for real. Costings are all over the place in this book, and don't make any sense at all. See: Cold One Spears, Terradon Flaming Bolas, Ancient Stegadons vs regular Stegadons, Scar-Veterans, Skink Cohort CC poison, Jungle Swarms costing the same as Skink Skirmishers or Chameleon Skinks... My post at the top of the previous page goes into great detail about it.

Hold on, "jungle swarms costing the same as skink Skirmishers or chameleon skinks"
Could you explain that a little, how in the name of Sotek can Jungle swarms be costed the same as either Skinks or Chameleons, they have 5 fricking wounds each???

 

[Caneghem]

as i see in the rule book it doesn't say anything about infantry or not so they got parry

I can't find it either, that makes it interesting. I don't think I've ever run into cav equipped that way. If saurus cav can still take a banner, having a HW+SH unit with the AP banner might be worthwhile.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see it now, in the part about frenzy.

 

[arcabis]

as i see in the rule book it doesn't say anything about infantry or not so they got parry

I can't find it either, that makes it interesting. I don't think I've ever run into cav equipped that way. If saurus cav can still take a banner, having a HW+SH unit with the AP banner might be worthwhile.

it's at the bottom of parry save it can't be used by mounted warrior's :/

 

[Qupakoco]

Hold on, "jungle swarms costing the same as skink Skirmishers or chameleon skinks"
Could you explain that a little, how in the name of Sotek can Jungle swarms be costed the same as either Skinks or Chameleons, they have 5 fricking wounds each???

35 pts a base and 2 base minimum GW probably thought they were equally as effective as Skirmishers with the new poison upgrade. Also that makes both units have 10 wounds.

Bummer about the no parry on cav. Oh well. I still will probably rip some arms off anyway just to have the option. Not like I'll ever use all 23 of my Cold Ones in one battle anyway.

 

[Tetengo]

So I have heard that Slann can take the 8 sig spells alongside rolling for spells normally. I have also heard they can't. Can someone who has the book please put me out of my misery? If they can I'm going to be so much happier about this release. If they can't then I'll be sad.

I also don't get the fuss about our lore attribute for High magic. Sure you can swap spells but you do have to cast them in the first place. And if you're specifically casting spells you don't actually want then surely you're wasting a few turns of magic at least. The only reason I could see it being handy is to swap out for Searing Doom. I still think I'd rather have Lore of Light than High with Searing Doom though.

 

[Andrinor]

From what I can see it seems like the Cold One Cav are really the outliers in the points costs.

Most everything else seems good: Kroxigor with S5 and small drop in points are great. The Bastiladon seems appropriately priced in points. Different Stegadons seem about right to me. Temple Guard are lowered to where they should be. Salamanders and Razordons seem to be about right. The Troglodon seems a little high but it could play out to be appropriate. Ripperdactyls seem about right in points to me. Terradons didn't need to be increased but the increase is reasonably low.

15ss for 4x s4 attacks with PF (on just the rider's attacks it sounds) on models with stupidity and a 2+ isn't very good, What's sad is that it is still an improvement over what we had, just not by much.

Kroxigor just seem like a much more attractive option compared to CoC. The big thing I think we can be excited over is that we actually have options.

 

[olderplayer]

Agreed CoC seem over-costed still. I do not understand the 2+ AS, they could have put scaly skin 5+, LA +1, shield +1 and cold one +2 for a 1+ AS with spears for S5 on the chargoe at least at that point cost and it would still be considered a so-so priced unit. Also, a special unit should have access to a magic banner, that's got to be a mistake!

There is a use for CoC as a delivery unit for an oldblood on a cold one (makes the oldblood immune to stomps and thunderstomps and avoid terror and gives two more S4 attacks and +2 AS). I've seen a number of alternative builds that work like armour of destiny, great weapon or halberd and luckstone and crown of command that still allows for a decent slann in a 2500 army. Not saying it is a great option, but it can be quite a shock to fight and can hold up a daemon prince or greater daemon or a monster pretty well. You need the mount to avoid taking thunderstomps and to challenge and severely wound, hold up and maybe kill a character on a monster or a monster character or a monster. LD8 cold blooded is almost as good as LD10. The new steg helm plus dawnstone plus crown of command on oldblood. Just throwing stuff out there.

A fast flanking skrox unit would be two Krox with 16 skinks six skinks wide in front, four skinks on sides of two Krox in ranks two and three and six skinks in rank four. Even one Krox with ten skinks is interesting simply for the greater hitting power and LD of the Krox to improve the chaff unit.'s ability to stand and shoot and avoid or pass a fear test, bait and flee and rally, and do some real damage before dying or breaking from combat to set something up to get finished off by a stronger unit.

 

[jgascoine011]

From what I can see it seems like the Cold One Cav are really the outliers in the points costs.

Most everything else seems good: Kroxigor with S5 and small drop in points are great. The Bastiladon seems appropriately priced in points. Different Stegadons seem about right to me. Temple Guard are lowered to where they should be. Salamanders and Razordons seem to be about right. The Troglodon seems a little high but it could play out to be appropriate. Ripperdactyls seem about right in points to me. Terradons didn't need to be increased but the increase is reasonably low.

15ss for 4x s4 attacks with PF (on just the rider's attacks it sounds) on models with stupidity and a 2+ isn't very good, What's sad is that it is still an improvement over what we had, just not by much.

Kroxigor just seem like a much more attractive option compared to CoC. The big thing I think we can be excited over is that we actually have options.

Ok lets break this down.
1) Kroxigor:
S5 is good. Your opponent being able to target them in combat is terrible.
I think some1 said about 5 khorne knights charging 4 krox the krox would win. Actually the khorne knights win, but who plays khrone knights? every1 jsut takes skull crushers which will trample over such a unit.
So krox got hit so hard with being able to target them in a skink unit
Btw no1 every played krox without skinks which is why i am looking at skrox units.

2) Bastilladon
Yes its points are appropriate seeing as its useless.
I dont get what this thing is supposed to do. If its solar engine wasnt a bound spell it might not have been too bad but as it stands it doesnt do anything. And never take the swamp producing one. What a fail in rules that thing is.

3) Temple guard i agree are where they should be.

4) Salamanders i actually think got a boost as they are now better Low armour horde killers (skaven slaves for example).

5) The troglodon has 1 purpose. to scream. So you are paying 200 points for a one use thing.
Jesus how much do GW want to screw over lizardmen. Again this thing is completley useless.

6) Ripperdactyls.
Ok can some1 please explain these guys to me. What are they supposed to do?
They are geared for combat but then wont survive long enough to be good in combat. Maybe as flank charges but with frenzy and LD5. they will be getting redirected all over the place.


On a hole i think entire lizardmen lists will change.
I expect to see lists like:
Lords
Slaan.

Heros
Skink priest with dispel scroll on engine
Skink priest with cube of darkness

Core
1 or 2 blocks of saurus and then skink skirmishers for min core.

Special
Temple guard
2 units of 3 terradactyls
Chamelion skinks

Rare
salamanders and maybe another engine of the gods


Oh wait. This is exactly what lizardmen played before.
So why the F*ck bring out a new book GW

 

[PlasmaDavid]

Don't be so negative!

I'm happy that Swarms and Razordons have become cheaper! They may still not be the best units on the planet, but Swarms are more interesting now (synergy) and generally it's nice that some unloved models are no longer an automatic "waste of points"

Mind you, I've always just used whatever I think looks cool all along

 

[Animaux]

From what I can see it seems like the Cold One Cav are really the outliers in the points costs.

Most everything else seems good: Kroxigor with S5 and small drop in points are great. The Bastiladon seems appropriately priced in points. Different Stegadons seem about right to me. Temple Guard are lowered to where they should be. Salamanders and Razordons seem to be about right. The Troglodon seems a little high but it could play out to be appropriate. Ripperdactyls seem about right in points to me. Terradons didn't need to be increased but the increase is reasonably low.

15ss for 4x s4 attacks with PF (on just the rider's attacks it sounds) on models with stupidity and a 2+ isn't very good, What's sad is that it is still an improvement over what we had, just not by much.

Kroxigor just seem like a much more attractive option compared to CoC. The big thing I think we can be excited over is that we actually have options.

Ok lets break this down.
1) Kroxigor:
S5 is good. Your opponent being able to target them in combat is terrible.
I think some1 said about 5 khorne knights charging 4 krox the krox would win. Actually the khorne knights win, but who plays khrone knights? every1 jsut takes skull crushers which will trample over such a unit.
So krox got hit so hard with being able to target them in a skink unit
Btw no1 every played krox without skinks which is why i am looking at skrox units.

2) Bastilladon
Yes its points are appropriate seeing as its useless.
I dont get what this thing is supposed to do. If its solar engine wasnt a bound spell it might not have been too bad but as it stands it doesnt do anything. And never take the swamp producing one. What a fail in rules that thing is.

3) Temple guard i agree are where they should be.

4) Salamanders i actually think got a boost as they are now better Low armour horde killers (skaven slaves for example).

5) The troglodon has 1 purpose. to scream. So you are paying 200 points for a one use thing.
Jesus how much do GW want to screw over lizardmen. Again this thing is completley useless.

6) Ripperdactyls.
Ok can some1 please explain these guys to me. What are they supposed to do?
They are geared for combat but then wont survive long enough to be good in combat. Maybe as flank charges but with frenzy and LD5. they will be getting redirected all over the place.


On a hole i think entire lizardmen lists will change.
I expect to see lists like:
Lords
Slaan.

Heros
Skink priest with dispel scroll on engine
Skink priest with cube of darkness

Core
1 or 2 blocks of saurus and then skink skirmishers for min core.

Special
Temple guard
2 units of 3 terradactyls
Chamelion skinks

Rare
salamanders and maybe another engine of the gods


Oh wait. This is exactly what lizardmen played before.
So why the F*ck bring out a new book GW

think some one got out on the wrong side of the bed i think you have taken ony the negative out of this rumors and alot of the units u have slagged off are proberly better than u make out.

the troglodon has an acid attack and a skink on top that can channel and used to fire direct damage and missiles

the basiladons solar engine is statick plus 1 int witha s5 template.

all in all yes the new book proberly is no OP but thats a good thing right ?

 

[Razzat]

SOOOOO much QQ about this new book. Just wait and see what happens FFS, its amazing some of you get out of bed in the morning!!! such doom and gloom.

The only bloke that I can see who has actually read the book on this forum has said that he is pretty happy and he can see a lot of different lists being used here!!

Thats what we want isnt it, the ability to use an army to beat an enemy in many different ways.

It will take some adjusting, all change does. Dont rubbish it just because its different and you dont understand it.

Just wait another 24 hours and lets see what happens.

 

[Spiney Norman]

think some one got out on the wrong side of the bed i think you have taken ony the negative out of this rumors and alot of the units u have slagged off are proberly better than u make out.

the troglodon has an acid attack and a skink on top that can channel and used to fire direct damage and missiles

the basiladons solar engine is statick plus 1 int witha s5 template.

all in all yes the new book proberly is no OP but thats a good thing right ?

Ithink some people are a little upset that their army is dissolving before their eyes, the troglodon is flat out useless for its points value, which I'm gutted about because I love the model. But 200pts for a single shot Bs3 shooting attack on the weakest monster profile in the game, that's just not funny.

I'm going out on a limb to say I think the Bastilodons and stegs will be great. The Bast is crazy cheap for a monster, and has a 2+ save, if you combine that with a life Slann that can put wounds back on it from the lore attribute that thing could hold up enemy units for ages. I'm also liking what they've done with swarms this time around, I can see me trying to squeeze a support unit or two in just to give my Saurus spear horde poisoned attacks.