walach said:
Presumably there's potential that the Slann is a large target in this book? Even if not, it's not impossible to keep them within 12" until they want to charge. Also, if i'm reading their entry correctly, it's altogether possible they will do some serious damage to whatever they charge anyway! Does seem to preclude taking more than 3-4 in a unit though.
Yeah, holding them back as a reserve seems to be the soundest bet.
I wouldn't be too optimistic about the damage out put. Bare in mind they are W3, T3, I3 and 4+ AS. It will take approximately 16 WS2-3 S3 attacks to kill one Ripper, 10 WS2-3 S4 attacks, and a mere 7 WS4+ S4 attacks.
Bare in mind that most stuff out there is I3 or better, and you need 3 MC models to deny Steadfast.
How do they do on the attack? Well, against WS3-5, T3, 5+ infantry (most Core) you still need about 3 attacks (not including re-rolls). Against WS3-5, T4, 4+ (Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, some elites) its closer to 4 . Then it gets its face smashed in. With re-rolls you do a little better: its closer to 2 and 3 attacks, respectively. If you add all those numbers up and 4 of them get their maximum Frenzy attacks, they kill 12 non-elite Core or 9 elites, which sounds good - I mean, 9 dead Chaos Warriors right? Except remember that that's assuming above average Frenzy rolling and not losing any models first (unlikely, given the above). On an average roll they only kill 10 and 8; and on below average its 8 and 6. Take away the re-rolls and additional Frenzy, and those numbers are much, much lower.
It seems to me that a Ripper's ideal target is probably catching a unit of Knights on the charge. With your Killing Blow you can make the most of those 6s to ignore armour save; you've got Armour Peircing anyway and a bucket load of attacks so some of them will go through even if they aren't KB, the Knights (At least the non-Warriors variety) won't have their extra deadly charge bonus attacks, and due to their large base size you can bring a lot to bare on the flank whilst being relatively protected. You do sacrifice the ability to stomp, though.
Are cavalry all that much of a problem at the moment? No, not really. This isn't actually a tool that Lizardmen particularly need.
You could try them at hunting Monstrous Cav, but Skullcrushers will kill them just as easily on the charge as being charged, and against everything else you are losing your Stomps and Killing Blow potential. Same with Monsters and Chariots, except both also usually have higher Toughness. Monstrous Infantry might be easier to wound and usually have Great Weapons to strike last or low Initiative, but you still aren't making anything of Stomps or Killing Blow, and any MI you don't kill will smash the Rippers into little peices. Going on the above numbers, 4 Rippers might kill 2 MI if they are lucky; that still leaves 4 out of a usual unit size.
You can probably cut through poor Core infantry, if you go in a flank or rear and have enough models in a unit (4+) to take a wound or two and still deny Steadfast. But do Lizardmen really struggle with killing poor Core infantry? No - its actually the one thing our Saurus are good at killing.
They could go chaff or wizard hunting, I suppose. But so can Chameleons, Skirmishers and Terradons - without the unreliability of LD5 Frenzy (which would be an issue if you are hunting, because you are roaming far from the BSB and General).
You might get some mileage out of hunting flying characters, like the infamous Pegasus Pendant masters or Third Eye Disco Exalted... except they are immune to Killing Blow, thanks to the latest GW FAQ on monstrous mounts. You could try assassinating models on foot... except they'll likely be hiding in a block, in which case, a single Skink Chief on a Ripper with some magic items, for much less cost, is probably a better investment.
If you're going to do it, I agree that 4 minimum is the way to go. I'd maybe consider two units of 4 or a big unit of 6, but those are some pricey numbers (if they are the same base cost as the Skink Chief mount, which isn't unreasonable, you're looking at 320 for two units of 4 or 240 for the bigger unit). I just don't see what sort of role they are supposed to fill or what they are meant to bring to the table :/
Edit: Based solely on BRB items, as we don't know what the rulebook ones are, the build I'd use for the Ripper Chief would be something like light armour, shield, spear, Other Trickster's Shard, Dragonhelm and Opal Amulet for 126 points. No offensive items, because the damage is all going to come from the Ripper: he has a 2+ armour save and 4+ ward against the first wound, to ensure the Ripper gets a chance, and the OTS helps any Ripper KBs beat ward saves. This build is the exact same cost as 3 Rippers with a marked improvement in viability (tougher, more reliable thanks to better Ld, can challenge out rather than facing whole unit, etc).
