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8th Ed. New Lizardman army book and info

I would have been happy with this release if they would have only given Skink Priests access to Beasts! The potential our army book can have with just this one change alone is pretty substantial. I plan on running a mass wildform spam list upon release! Blocks of S5 T5 Saurus? Yes please! Add to that the spear for annihilating warmachines/monsters/monstrous cav/heroes, the curse for dealing with hordes, and of course transformation and things can get really ridiculous really quickly! Pair that up with a Slann with Light/Life and I would argue that we have the potential to outperform Warriors in melee. Heck even skinks may have combat viability with just a wildform on them.

All that being said, I still have some concerns:

-I don't see how Cupped Hands (at least how it currently works) survives in this edition.
-No word on Sallies. I know the nerf bat is coming but I hope they don't become obsolete. They are just too much fun!
-I'm still skeptical on Rippers. I'll have to see their points first but they just don't seem to stack up with other 8 ed monstrous cav (i.e.-Mournfang Cav, Necro Knights, Gryphon Riders, etc.) Flying is a huge boon but with average leadership and frenzy they may not be as reliable as other options.
-All this emphasis on new monsters makes me worry that Krox won't see the buff they so desperately need. I have a bunch of Krox waiting to see the battlefield once again!
-No word on how they have changed, or even if they bothered to change, Razordons.
-Will the basiliodon's make my stegs obsolete?
-I hope they don't nerf our frogs too hard. I know a nerf is coming but I don't want to see Slann disappear completely.
-Speaking of Slann, I'm anxious to see how their disciplines will be altered.
-No new Core unit disappoints me. We have one of the most boring core selections in the entire game.
-No mention of our magic items. All of the previous 8th ed army books seem to have 1-2 incredibly powerful items with the rest being situational or obsolete. I don’t see this pattern changing with our book.

All in all I’m optimistic. I think this is a step in the right direction in terms of army versatility. As much as I love LM (they were my first WHFB army) I must admit that their play style became incredibly stale. I gave up playing them over a year ago due to their stagnant list design (slann+saurus+sallies+steg+cham skinks=win). I tinkered around a bit with some other lists but none of them really felt like they synergized well. I think and hope that this new book opens up more opportunities for various viable competitive lists. Overall GW has done a pretty good job with the 8th ed army books in terms of balance and options.
 
I did here... um somewhere in all these rumors that salamanders got more expensive and razordons got cheaper... :shifty:
 
You make an interesting comment about the cupped hands, which items do you think will make the cut? If I were going to nominate up to ten items that most said "Lizardmen"I would certainly include;

Burning blade of Chotec
Blade of realities

The maiming shield

Totem of Prophecy

Charm of the jag warrior
Plaque of protection
Venom of the firefly frog

Glyph Necklace

Any advance on those?
 
I hope they keep the cube of darkness even if they do raise the cost. it's such a fun item...i also like the...uhm..that cursed charm that makes enemy roll T tests :P

Sanjay
 
I read somewhere that neither razordons or sallies will be able to march and shoot. It was before all this stuff came out so it could be wrong.
 
I'm supposed to be paying off my credit card and debts now my wedding is over, but this pops up! My wife and I might have our first fight over money as a married couple, and this time I'll be the big spender!

I love the Troglodon! It looks like something that would live in cave with subterranean lakes eating fish in the darkness. It would be a cool conversion to make it more spinosauroid with a dorsal sail, and maybe give it paddle-tails!

I really like the new carnosaur as well, although I feel the need to snap up the current one for use on a scar-vet. Oldbloods need the bigger carnie for sure!

Bastilodon isn't too bad. The back mount and hanging skinks look a bit odd, but I think with some howadah converting it would be pretty good. I also think they need some spines to look less turtley.

The previous terradons were aweful, so I'm glad they're remaking them. My only worry will be that it will be in a 2-per box kit rather than 3 or 4. Even then I'll need to sink some serious coin into them (I'd need a unit of each after all!).

I really need to spend a weekend or two doing some solid painting to catch up before these hit my desk!

EDIT: Just saw some more pics and realised Troglodon already has a sail. HOW DO THEY READ MY MIND?!
 
definitely going to miss all the item options in 7th lizzies. The new books are lucky to have 3 useable items in a diminished list
 
I only really ever found mself using:

Burning Blade of Chotec
Venom of the Firefly Frog
Bane Head
Cube of Darkness
Cupped Hands

Maybe Plaque of Protection for a solo slann, but ethereal was better and there's so few actually good MM compared to DD it's not worth taking both imo.

Might be missing something, but I can't think of it. So having our magic items condensed to 8th edition standards actually doesn't phase me much, I was picking out of the BRB items most of the time anyways.
 
Troglodon could be an amazing buff-monster that will make basic saurus a bit more tempting.

We already know it can do the 5+ predatory hunter thing. What if it somehow could add things like hatred/frenzy as well? I think the Trog's low stats suggest that it will be able to do more than just the predatory fighter boost. Hatred with 5+ predatory hunter would be fairly amazing. Combine this with the new Beast lore priests, and you can devastate enemies with hyper-buffed saurus. I'd say the primal roar is what the trog does, but that the skink oracle on top will be able to dish out heavens-style buffs (hopefully Engine-like effects instead of bound spells).

Other Things that Could Happen:

Core
Saurus dropping an extra attack would be disappointing unless also accompanied by a point decrease. I've always viewed Saurus as a nice template troop that gets fairly exceptional when you add buffs. Pretty much any list will now be able to toss in a Wyssan's Wildform Skink Priest to give your now larger/cheaper saurus block S5 T5. Might be spears are a free swap for HW+SH, and now with Predatory Fighters spears might be worth taking.

Skrox - We are all sort of assuming these work the same way, but any number of new special rules could make these even better than currently (or worse). If kroxigors remain as they are, they could see a nice points drop which will carry over to a cheaper overall skrox block.

Saurus Cav - Maybe core/cheaper if unchanged. These might combine up well with a Trog's buffs and Beast wielding skink priest. If they remain special, they'd have to be made a bit more special or a good deal cheaper to be worth taking.

Special
Swarms now either very interesting and good or very cheap and worth throwing in as a cheap drop/chaff. The move to special suggests these might well be worth it now.

Sharpened steg horns thing sounds similar to a chariot's scythes, though AP sounds reasonable as well. Str5 AP on a regular steg makes a decent cheap monster. Perhaps the skink chief can now use his BS on the bolt thrower? You never know!

Kroxigors better and/or cheaper! Still probably only worth taking with skinks.

Jungle Howdahs - Maybe some kind of thing to protect Howdah Crew from the ludicrously bad cannon ping-pong effect. This could stand-in for an eventual 9th edition change to warmachines hitting every part of a multipart model.

Ripperdactyls seem great at bunker-busting.. drop the frog on the obvious mage-bunker unit and plow these guys into it ASAP. Mage will probably have to bail out of the bunker and go somewhere where he is more vulnerable. Killing Blow is nothing to laugh at vs heavily armored knights and such, though too bad it is worthless vs MC. Overall I like the idea of a flying, medium cavalry unit. 3+ armor save will help it survive somewhat, but T3 (likely) means they are glass hammers.

Fire leeches?! Just need to hit that chimera/hydra/hellpit with a flaming shot at the beginning of the phase, then unleash the hail of skink blowpipe doom.

I'm feeling really optimistic at the moment, and it definitely looks like we're getting a ton of good new options. I'm a fan of all of Vetock's books, as he tends to err on the side of "too many options" as opposed to not enough. I'd always rather more options than needed to fewer.

All that said, I'll bet Jeremy really would have loved to do sacred spawnings, but I get the feeling GW marketing people vetoed this because they really want to sell lots of super-profitable monsters.

Overall, it's a good day to be a Lizardman player!
 
Hi everyone

Been checking out this forum (especially this topic) for a good while and decided to join.

8th ed should be interesting - I hope they bring sacred spawnings back, so sad when they got rid of them
If they DO bring them back, it will be cool seeing them line up with the 8th ed rules

The new monsters look pretty mad :D as long as they aren't redundant

AND possibly skinks with scaly skin saves! (longer slap fights with Empire archers & handgunners)
 
we all complaining about the core choices if we have heard swarms are going to special (not that they have ever been used ) is it not possible that terradons are going to be core. i think it makes some sense with the new ripper dactyls
 
Agreed. I was thinking that would be the case. Terradons as core and rippers as their big brother special counterpart in the same way as saurus and TG.

Finally got scaly skin on the skinks, just makes sense imo, the models have scaly skin after all lol always frustrated me, that one.

All in all things are shaping up to be a pretty awesome update. Fingers crossed......
 
Honestly Core aside I hope they do something with temple guard they're not worth 16 points IMO either lower the point cost or give them something else. Stubborn with a Slann is nice but it be cool to make them viable without a Slann.

I mean look at Grave Guard or even Tomb Guard they are miles ahead of us in terms of killing ability. It's bad when our Special unit choice struggles against some core choices........ Atleast they have in my experiences, I love TG an I always take them but man they just don't seem all that great when compared to other special choices from other armies. Core Chaos Warriors are the same price and get way more options then our freakin elite protectors of the mighty Mage Priests......... Once again purely my opinion though

What id like to see is general stubborn for TG and maybe stick a Slann in and get Killing Blow or something, it would also be cool if Sacred Duty had an addition like of the Slann dies the unit gets frenzy as they are angered at the death of they're exalted leader
 
Skink priest with Lore of Beasts. Is anyone else as excited as me, signature spell increases S&T by 1.

Here is how my plan goes ;)

Slann, Lore of Light
Skink Priest Lore Of beasts

Bironahs and speed of light + wyssanas wildform on Saurus unit 30 strong (6x5) - My math may be bad but thats a 18 (24 with spears) strength 5 attacks re rolling misses and with a chance for extra attack from 6's (trog buff) and ASF!!!!! Same for the TG but they will be strength 6!!!!, throw in a champion or scar vet into the mix and there are problems! I recon that would dish out atleast 15+ wounds!! Try and beat that in combat rezz.

The synergy from light could make TG a death star unit before, now throw in the fact they will be strength & toughness 5. INSANE!!!!!! EXCITED!!

Somoene will probably burst my bubble now and tell me our SW and TG have been nerfed :(
 
Natural 20 said:
Honestly Core aside I hope they do something with temple guard they're not worth 16 points IMO either lower the point cost or give them something else. Stubborn with a Slann is nice but it be cool to make them viable without a Slann.

I mean look at Grave Guard or even Tomb Guard they are miles ahead of us in terms of killing ability. It's bad when our Special unit choice struggles against some core choices........ Atleast they have in my experiences, I love TG an I always take them but man they just don't seem all that great when compared to other special choices from other armies. Core Chaos Warriors are the same price and get way more options then our freakin elite protectors of the mighty Mage Priests......... Once again purely my opinion though

What id like to see is general stubborn for TG and maybe stick a Slann in and get Killing Blow or something, it would also be cool if Sacred Duty had an addition like of the Slann dies the unit gets frenzy as they are angered at the death of they're exalted leader
Click to expand...

+1

Ive always loved these guys....whats not to love about the honour guard of the mightiest and oldest wizards in the world?
Their models are great and I just bought a bunch from Ebay hoping that they will become what they should be.

Ive always wanted TG to be what White Lions are ( minus the ranged armour buff) ..they should be a respected and undoubtfully strong unit. Not just a "might as well put Slanny in a skinkbunker and use the points for saurus instead" choice.
 
For all the people says Skink Kroxigors are bad and they really hope they get a buff and that they don't see any point/use in them.

They are one of the better units in the list. You just need to learn how to use them correctly, and they do massively rely on certain buffs to do what they are designed for.

Just having a look myself and around 80% of the ETC lists for this year feature Skink Krox units.

The idea is to match them up against low number of attack, high strength opponents and also get something off to make sure your krox are hitting better. The combat res doesn't its the use of str6 where str4 just wont cut it.

If they are going up against anything high toughness/strength/armour with a low number of attack these are definitely your unit of choice. Don't expect win through combat res but the parry's are fantastic vs bretonnian knights or anything similar to that.

They are a finesse unit and you have to be very careful, but in the correct match up they are devastating.

Hiv0r
 
Hiv0r said:
They are a finesse unit and you have to be very careful, but in the correct match up they are devastating.

Hiv0r
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure this sentence applies to most units. The game is about finesse and correct match up's after all.
 
Phatmotha-phucka said:
Hiv0r said:
They are a finesse unit and you have to be very careful, but in the correct match up they are devastating.

Hiv0r
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure this sentence applies to most units. The game is about finesse and correct match up's after all.
Click to expand...
That is very much not the case. I can tell you that there is an incredible polar opposite play style between my bretonnian army play and my lizardmen play. One is push it forward with characters and try and smash through things the other is incredibly delicate movement and re-directing to ensure I get very specific combats. Lizards rely heavily on their movement phase to ensure that match-ups are exactly as they need to be with good use of magic. Bretonnians are much safer and only though huge mistakes will you find yourself in irreversible trouble.
 
Hiv0r said:
That is very much not the case. I can tell you that there is an incredible polar opposite play style between my bretonnian army play and my lizardmen play. One is push it forward with characters and try and smash through things the other is incredibly delicate movement and re-directing to ensure I get very specific combats. Lizards rely heavily on their movement phase to ensure that match-ups are exactly as they need to be with good use of magic. Bretonnians are much safer and only though huge mistakes will you find yourself in irreversible trouble.
Click to expand...

Not to turn this into a back and forward of topic debat but:

in a fight between two mirrored Bretonnian lists, id say the winner would be determined by finesse and correct matchups. Dont you agree?

Anyway, lets put it down here. Had this been Warseer "Darnok" would already have beaten up his Delete button due to "off topic" editting.


..where were we...

right! bring glory back to the templeguard!

I hope it goes something like this

TG
- Stubborn
- Predatory fighter +6
- Better AS and maybe better WS
- GW option or ability to use Halberds + shields.

TG + Slann
- Unbreakable
- Predatory fighter +5 (or +4 even. That would surely make up for the missing attacks from the slann in rank 2 :D)

- maybe some special rule that makes the slanns magic affect their stateline.....I think they deserve it after all those "bye 3/4 my unit" miscasts
 
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