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Tutorial Matched Play List GHB2019

LizardWizard said:
Maybe across all players, but the people who win in Warhammer normally win frequently with an average higher than 80%. I have lost one game of AoS this year and I average about 4 games a week if you count tournaments.
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I am seriously curious about your level compared to those you play against and the general level of play at a tournament. 80%+ winrates tend to be indicitative of issues, be it an inbalance in the game or an inbalance in player level. Though I guess you can also create it by having certain tournament set-ups (e.g. a full season in which everyone plays everyone will have different "healthy" winrates compared to what would be healthy in a bracket-type competition in which the loser drops out)

ILKAIN said:
@Canas I was saying the "hence it should rarely happen" portion wasn't accurate. the meta can make things that are not OP just consistently work better.
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Except that the meta enforces that the "bad" armies don't show up to begin with. The good armies will have a massivly higher pick-rate. But since they'l primarly face other good armies they won't have a massivly inflated win-rate as they'l be kept in check by the other good armies present. It's not like you'l see 1 player with a godlike army vs. 99 players fielding a disfunctional mess. It'l be 80 good armies winning/losing/drawing against eachother.
 
fued said:
extra attacks on 5, because they have +1 to hit

they are great, but they suffer from the fact that you need a huge amount of CP to make them work, at least 2 for the scar vet on carno, 1 for the sunblood, another one for an oldblood so that they can teleport+make the charge, then another one so u can re-roll the charge if u fail... how many lists have 5 cp turn one/two?

if you are using them without the teleport they can definitely work, but a unit of 40 can get picked off quite easily at range, or tagged at the edges to reduce your damage output massively
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On 5 ups? That makes them a whole lot scarier, with some 33% of attacks generating extras. As for command points, My 2000 point list does generate three a turn which is enough to get extra attacks and rerolls, and ensuring a successful charge is not 100% necessary as the warriors can march or LoSaT onto an objective and force the enemy to come to them. As for dealing with shooting, there are a few ways I see you could go about this. For one a slann can replenish depleted ranks relatively easily, and extra buffs from skink characters can result in them being very hard to kill.
 
Lizerd said:
On 5 ups? That makes them a whole lot scarier, with some 33% of attacks generating extras. As for command points, My 2000 point list does generate three a turn which is enough to get extra attacks and rerolls, and ensuring a successful charge is not 100% necessary as the warriors can march or LoSaT onto an objective and force the enemy to come to them. As for dealing with shooting, there are a few ways I see you could go about this. For one a slann can replenish depleted ranks relatively easily, and extra buffs from skink characters can result in them being very hard to kill.
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You can't reinforce existing units with summoning, so replenishing depleted ranks won't work. And since summoning can't summon 40 man hordes summoning saurus is relativly underwhelming as you simply won't get those nice shiny bonusses.
 
Canas said:
I am seriously curious about your level compared to those you play against and the general level of play at a tournament. 80%+ winrates tend to be indicitative of issues,
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Most of the people I play against are or have been in the Top 20 for US ITC Rankings.
 
Hey lizard, I really liked running two EoTGs before point increases and I had them in a Thunderquake list, is such a list still possible?
 
Allegiance: Seraphon
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Engine of the Gods (240)
Engine of the Gods (240)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Trait: Great Rememberer
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
3 x Razordons (120)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)
Bastiladon (280)
Bastiladon (280)
Thunderquake Starhost (120)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91

It can still work !
 
Batch said:
Hey lizard, I really liked running two EoTGs before point increases and I had them in a Thunderquake list, is such a list still possible?
Click to expand...

It still fits, it is just light a few Razordons and Cogs. Sinks, EotGs, Razordons, and Cogs all getting hit with price increases at the same time really compounded into a rough GHB for us.
 
@LizardWizard which batallion is the one that in your opinion works more ?
For the last 1.5 year I just can't leave my Shadowstrike. Loving the threat too much to miss it. Are you going my way, thunderquake or dracothions ? Dracothion imo has some really strong weapons but haven't worked my way to make Saurus Knights work so far
 
Seraphage said:
@LizardWizard which batallion is the one that in your opinion works more ?
For the last 1.5 year I just can't leave my Shadowstrike. Loving the threat too much to miss it. Are you going my way, thunderquake or dracothions ? Dracothion imo has some really strong weapons but haven't worked my way to make Saurus Knights work so far
Click to expand...

I pretty much always have Shadowstrike in my list's toolkit. I rather enjoy my 2k DT/SS list. I have a GT at the end of July and I am debating between the DT/SS and the other Standard Shadowstrike 2k list.

Saurus Knights are basically just screens to tie down enemy units a turn or two. I did have a unit of 5x Saurus knights deal the final 2 MW to a Nagash who failed both 4+s though. That is the most game impactful thing Knights have ever accomplished for me outside of board control.
 
1000pt Shadowstrike Starhost

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu

LEADERS:
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact : Miasmatic Blade
- Spell : Meteoric Convocation
Skink Priest (80)
- Cloak of Feathers
- Artefact : Betrayer's Crown

UNITS:
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
10 x Skinks (70)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (70)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers
3 x Razordons (120)
3x Razordons (120)

BATTALIONS:
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

TOTAL: 1000/1000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
WOUNDS: 64

Return to Index
 
1000pt Shooting

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Mortal Realm: Ghur

LEADERS:
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm
- Spell : Meteoric Convocation

Units:
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
3 x Razordons (120)
2 x Razordons (100)

BEHEMOTHS:
Bastiladon (280)
-Solar Engine
Bastiladon (280)
-Solar Engine

TOTAL: 1000/1000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0
WOUNDS: 55

Return to Index
 
Meeting Engagement: Eternal Starhost

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Mortal Realm: Ghyran

SPEARHEAD:
Saurus Sunblood (120)
- Artefact : Ghyrstrike
5 x Saurus Guard (80)

MAIN BODY:
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Spell : Meteoric Convocation
Saurus Eternity Warden (140)
- Artefact : Incandescent Rectrices
10 x Saurus Guard (160)

REARGUARD:
10 x Saurus Guard (160)
2 x Razordons (100)

Battalion:
Eternal Starhost (150)

TOTAL: 990/1000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
WOUNDS: 49

Saurus Units seem to be our army's best option for Meeting Engagements. Sadly Skinks are too easily killed and will thus feed the enemy Victory Points.

This list has the potential to struggle with fighting high rend behemoths.

Return to Index
 
Meeting Engagement: Shadowstrike Starhost

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Mortal Realm: Ghur

SPEARHEAD:
10 x Skinks (70)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

MAIN BODY:
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm
- Spell : Meteoric Convocation
6 x Terradon Riders (240)
- Sunleech Bolas
10 x Chameleon Skinks (220)
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

REARGUARD:
2 x Razordons (100)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)

BATTALIONS:
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

TOTAL: 1000/1000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
Wounds: 61

Ripperdactyls are vulnerable to not having access to their Bloat Toad due to the battleplans for Meeting Engagement. As a result I believe Terradons in most cases will be a more flexible option for Meeting Engagements.

Quick Guide:
  • Prioritize high value targets with Terradons
    • These include Behemoths, units with high saves, units with high movement characteristics, & units your Skinks can't deal with
  • Find fights your Terradons will be able to win in a single round of Combat/Shooting to stay mobile
  • Save Deadly Cargo for high save targets or enemy behemoths
  • Keep your Skink units on your own objectives to reduce the number of wounds you feed your opponent
  • Use Chameleon Skinks to harass enemy units and steal objectives when possible without losing the unit
  • Prioritize low save targets with Razodons to score the most wounds possible
Return to Index
 
Meeting Engagement: Double Carnosaur

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Mortal Realm: Ulgu

SPEARHEAD:
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
5 x Chameleon Skinks (110)

MAIN BODY:
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Spell : Meteoric Convocation
Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (240)
- Artefact : Doppelganger Cloak
10 x Saurus Guard (160)

REARGUARD:
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- Warspear
2 x Razordons (100)

TOTAL: 1000/1000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0
WOUNDS: 59

This list can be a bit swingy, but is one of our higher damage options for meeting engagement. The Doppelgange's Cloak can be traded for sword of Judgement on either Carno or another damage artifact.

Quick Guide:
  • Use Serpent Staff and the Oldblood's Command ability to buff your Carnos to kill enemy behemoths
  • Buff the Saurus Guard with Summon Starlight, Celestial Rights, and the ScV's command ability
    • Make certain the Saurus Guard are near a Seraphon hero at all time
  • Use Razordons to clear enemy chaff
Return to Index
 
Meeting Engagement: Shadowstrike Starhost w/Rippderdactyls

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Mortal Realm: Ghur

Spearhead:
Skink Priest (80)
- Cloak of Feathers
- Artefact : Light of Dracothion
3 x Ripperdactyl Riders (140)
10 x Skinks (70)
- Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers

MAIN BODY:
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Command Trait : Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm
- Spell : Meteoric Convocation
6 x Ripperdactyl Riders (280)
10 x Skinks (70)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

REARGUARD:
2 x Razordons (100)

BATTALIONS:
Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

TOTAL: 1000/1000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
WOUNDS: 61

Return to Index
 
Thoughts on 2x Starpriest instead of 1x Starpriest + 1x Priest?

I feel you could get more mileage out of a second spell in addition to Meteroric Convocation compared to a second use of Celestial Rites. Or take the priest for the higher mobility due to Cloak of Feathers?
 
Acehilator said:
Thoughts on 2x Starpriest instead of 1x Starpriest + 1x Priest?

I feel you could get more mileage out of a second spell in addition to Meteroric Convocation compared to a second use of Celestial Rites. Or take the priest for the higher mobility due to Cloak of Feathers?
Click to expand...

I think both are good options. The list should have enough offense at the moment to kill most threats. Meteoric Convocation is great for sniping heroes though. This armys is brittle and thus the rerolls to saves were more appealing to me.
 
Canas said:
I am seriously curious about your level compared to those you play against and the general level of play at a tournament. 80%+ winrates tend to be indicitative of issues, be it an inbalance in the game or an inbalance in player level. Though I guess you can also create it by having certain tournament set-ups (e.g. a full season in which everyone plays everyone will have different "healthy" winrates compared to what would be healthy in a bracket-type competition in which the loser drops out)


Except that the meta enforces that the "bad" armies don't show up to begin with. The good armies will have a massivly higher pick-rate. But since they'l primarly face other good armies they won't have a massivly inflated win-rate as they'l be kept in check by the other good armies present. It's not like you'l see 1 player with a godlike army vs. 99 players fielding a disfunctional mess. It'l be 80 good armies winning/losing/drawing against eachother.
Click to expand...
except those "bad armies" do show. just like in magic you will have three types of players: the Timmy, Johnny and the Spike. when Johnny is not going to go to tournaments because he is all about fun with big grand things, but Spike and Timmy will. Spike will always switch to whatever is the most powerful, highest win rate at the time, with no loyalty to a faction(s), but Timmy... the Timmy players WILL stick with n army they like to try and "prove" they are worth playing, to break the meta, or prove they themselves can win without using the established best army.

Timmys cause Spikes to have 80% win rates. sometimes.... Timmy's have 80% win rates because they found a niche that works COUNTER to the current meta.
 
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