Tutorial Matched Play List GHB2019

[ILKAIN]

I'm toying with listbuilding those days and i really want to make some magic heavy list ( endless ) because i think it can do well in competitive combined with our summon and map control. Did Dracothion tail , shadowstrike or no battalion list but my main question is Kroak or not Kroak. He is an heavy investment for what in the end ? We dont really care about CP in a non saurus heavy list, even with new command abilities. Also his spell cast on 9/10 is quite hard , even with a potential +2 .... for max 6d3 mortal. However his comet call is good and he can cast an endless. In the end i want to know what you guys think about him ( only in terms of competitive games )pretty sure some shoot and 1/2 starpriest with endless can do more but yet havent played kroak yet ( 1 /2 games for fun )

if you are looking for just a fun, endless spell list... take a slann, an Astrolith, and fill the remainder of your leader slots with Starpriests lol.

 

[Aktanolt]

Of course i can do that, my point is to improve that ' Type of list to make it a competitive version ' able to 4/1 or even win tourneys ( also i got 7 starpriest ready to be paint xD )

 

[ILKAIN]

Of course i can do that, my point is to improve that ' Type of list to make it a competitive version ' able to 4/1 or even win tourneys ( also i got 7 starpriest ready to be paint xD )

Kroak isn't competitive... but MAYBE... MAYBE the 20 point drop might have helped.

 

[Canas]

I'm toying with listbuilding those days and i really want to make some magic heavy list ( endless ) because i think it can do well in competitive combined with our summon and map control. Did Dracothion tail , shadowstrike or no battalion list but my main question is Kroak or not Kroak. He is an heavy investment for what in the end ? We dont really care about CP in a non saurus heavy list, even with new command abilities. Also his spell cast on 9/10 is quite hard , even with a potential +2 .... for max 6d3 mortal. However his comet call is good and he can cast an endless. In the end i want to know what you guys think about him ( only in terms of competitive games )pretty sure some shoot and 1/2 starpriest with endless can do more but yet havent played kroak yet ( 1 /2 games for fun )

Get Kroak & a Slann. Teleport Kroak back and forth with impunity to hit as many things as possible while your slann sits in the back generating points and/or throwing around even more endless spells. I can imagine that combo being surprisingly effective now that teleports are guaranteed to get Kroak where you need him to (and back to safety again).

 

[ILKAIN]

Get Kroak & a Slann. Teleport Kroak back and forth with impunity to hit as many things as possible while your slann sits in the back generating points and/or throwing around even more endless spells. I can imagine that combo being surprisingly effective now that teleports are guaranteed to get Kroak where you need him to (and back to safety again).

this is true, I didn't take that into account. you could tele him, drop a sun or pendulum, CD two times (so you aren't casting on a 10) and comet call; tele him back. I still hold that the range and limitations the FAQ put on him made him to weak for being over 400 points. but just my opinion.

 

[LizardWizard]

I don't think Kroak is competitive. However, his most competitive list is probably just the old summoning Kroaknado.

 

[Canas]

I don't think Kroak is competitive. However, his most competitive list is probably just the old summoning Kroaknado.

The teleporting gives you some much needed safety and positioning to actually hit a lot of stuff with celestial deliverance & the two new damaging spells Ensure you can actually pump some decent focus fire into a unit.

Plus, combining that with death for unnumerable ages you could make him quite good use out of him blowing chunks out of your enemy without them being able to retaliate properly as they won't be able to wound him sufficiently to get anywhere.

- The teleport allows you to get into a favorable position
- The new spells allow you to murder, or at least severly maim your intended target as they give him much more focussed fire
- Death for unnumerable ages should allow you to survive the retalliation from your now very very maimed target (plus his melee profile is good enough that a maimed opponent should probably fear him)

I can see some interesting potential uses combining those three aspects provided at least you don't get screwed over by a strong anti-magic army or loads of shooting. I'm curious if anyone can make that approach work well.

 

[LizardWizard]

The teleporting gives you some much needed safety and positioning to actually hit a lot of stuff with celestial deliverance & the two new damaging spells Ensure you can actually pump some decent focus fire into a unit.

Plus, combining that with death for unnumerable ages you could make him quite good use out of him blowing chunks out of your enemy without them being able to retaliate properly as they won't be able to wound him sufficiently to get anywhere.

- The teleport allows you to get into a favorable position
- The new spells allow you to murder, or at least severly maim your intended target as they give him much more focussed fire
- Death for unnumerable ages should allow you to survive the retalliation from your now very very maimed target (plus his melee profile is good enough that a maimed opponent should probably fear him)

I can see some interesting potential uses combining those three aspects provided at least you don't get screwed over by a strong anti-magic army or loads of shooting. I'm curious if anyone can make that approach work well.

The Kroak + Slann list is centered around this very concept. I don't however think it is competitive. Which is to say able to go 4 and 1 or 5 and 0 and a large event.

 

[Canas]

The Kroak + Slann list is centered around this very concept. I don't however think it is competitive. Which is to say able to go 4 and 1 or 5 and 0 and a large event.

Imho unless you massivly outclass the other players no list should allow you to reliably go 5-0 at a competition. That's not so much "competitive" as it is "abusing stuff that's very broken".

I'm curious how much the improved teleport and extra spell for focus fire will help the list though. It seems quite beneficial for this particular set-up.

 

[LizardWizard]

Imho unless you massivly outclass the other players no list should allow you to reliably go 5-0 at a competition. That's not so much "competitive" as it is "abusing stuff that's very broken".

I don't think there is anything wrong with going 5-0. At big events someone has to do it. That is how you have a champion. I have 21 games this year with Seraphon at events and I haven't lost a game yet.

 

[ILKAIN]

I don't think there is anything wrong with going 5-0. At big events someone has to do it. That is how you have a champion. I have 21 games this year with Seraphon at events and I haven't lost a game yet.

yeah but you very well might outclass your opponent by a significant margin lol

 

[Canas]

I don't think there is anything wrong with going 5-0. At big events someone has to do it. That is how you have a champion. I have 21 games this year with Seraphon at events and I haven't lost a game yet.

Of course someone has to win, I meant more that if you do it consistently either you should be considerably better than your opponents (in which case, go find some better opponents so you can have a challenge) or you're stupidly Lucky, or you're using some OP nonsense.

And sadly, the first two catagories are small by definition. Hence it should rarely happen that you win consistently with any given list in a competitive enviroment.

 

[ILKAIN]

Of course someone has to win, I meant more that if you do it consistently either you should be considerably better than your opponents (in which case, go find some better opponents so you can have a challenge) or you're stupidly Lucky, or you're using some OP nonsense.

And sadly, the first two catagories are small by definition. Hence it should rarely happen that you win consistently with any given list in a competitive enviroment.

well that's not actually accurate... Meta's do develop based on what missions are typically used and what works in them... which is why DoK , Fish and LoN are stronger right now... and constantly going 4-1 lol

 

[Canas]

well that's not actually accurate... Meta's do develop based on what missions are typically used and what works in them... which is why DoK , Fish and LoN are stronger right now... and constantly going 4-1 lol

Which would make those OP nonsense

Don't get me wrong, certain lists will perform better than others, due to the prevelant meta and due to certain lists just being objectivly worse than others no matter what situation they are in. But presumably in a tournament everyone is fielding the "good" lists, or at least lists that make some semblance of sense. As such no single list should consistently win on account of there being competitive lists present in the tournament that stand a decent chance of stopping it and in sufficient quantity that you're reliably going to run into said opposing lists and don't just get spoonfed easy targets to crush.

Ultimatly everything should start falling into a winrate of about 40-60%. Some will be better, some perform a bit worse. Things like meta, ease of use, popularity they all factor in and give some error margin to it. But it really shouldn't be the case that any particular list ends up with a >80% winrate.

 

[LizardWizard]

But it really shouldn't be the case that any particular list ends up with a >80% winrate.

Maybe across all players, but the people who win in Warhammer normally win frequently with an average higher than 80%. I have lost one game of AoS this year and I average about 4 games a week if you count tournaments.

 

[ILKAIN]

there is in every competitive game like this (MAGIC, WARHAMMER, LOL, ETC) a considerable lopsided win rate for players at higher levels due to the fact that every game has a winner and a loser, and winners are likely to continue to win excessively.

@Canas I was saying the "hence it should rarely happen" portion wasn't accurate. the meta can make things that are not OP just consistently work better.

 

[Lizerd]

I think you people have failed to recognize one huge thing: saurus buffs. With a few small buffs a unit of some 40 warriors just became near unstoppable for very little. Add a skink priest, sunblood, and scar vet on carnosaur in a sunclaw and you have a powerhouse. Reroll fail saves, 160 attacks, 80 have rend, reroll hits, and extra attacks on 6s. Terrifying. I got to use it and the results were gruesome, the warriors wiped the floor with the enemy units.

Sorry for derailing this a bit, but seriously what happened with saurus is huge

 

[fued]

extra attacks on 6s.
e

extra attacks on 5, because they have +1 to hit

they are great, but they suffer from the fact that you need a huge amount of CP to make them work, at least 2 for the scar vet on carno, 1 for the sunblood, another one for an oldblood so that they can teleport+make the charge, then another one so u can re-roll the charge if u fail... how many lists have 5 cp turn one/two?

if you are using them without the teleport they can definitely work, but a unit of 40 can get picked off quite easily at range, or tagged at the edges to reduce your damage output massively

 

[Batch]

I think you people have failed to recognize one huge thing: saurus buffs. With a few small buffs a unit of some 40 warriors just became near unstoppable for very little. Add a skink priest, sunblood, and scar vet on carnosaur in a sunclaw and you have a powerhouse. Reroll fail saves, 160 attacks, 80 have rend, reroll hits, and extra attacks on 6s. Terrifying. I got to use it and the results were gruesome, the warriors wiped the floor with the enemy units.

Sorry for derailing this a bit, but seriously what happened with saurus is huge

Hey wouldnt the Oldbloods ability be better, instead of extra attacks on a 6+ (or 5+) they just flat out get 2 extra attacks, which on a unit of 40 is huge.

I so want them to work too

 

[fued]

Hey wouldnt the Oldbloods ability be better, instead of extra attacks on a 6+ (or 5+) they just flat out get 2 extra attacks, which on a unit of 40 is huge.

I so want them to work too

Oldbloods hero only