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7th Ed. lizardmen in 8ed, what do you think?

Don't forget to consider the inevitable FAQ's that will come with 8th ed. We may find salamanders get counted as breath weapons, and possibly even something for the spear saurus though I doubt that a bit.
 
strewart said:
Don't forget to consider the inevitable FAQ's that will come with 8th ed. We may find salamanders get counted as breath weapons, and possibly even something for the spear saurus though I doubt that a bit.
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If they FAQ salamanders to be breath weapons that would seriously suck. But I highly doubt that will happen as our book FAQ has already stated that they are not breath weapons. And with them being our only artillery type unit(minus the razordon) I do not see them gimping us by making it a breath weapon, all template artillery got a huge boost.

Also since salamanders are skirmishers they can also now march and shoot from what I hear. Though this probably will get changed in the FAQ.
 
I have yet to read the rulebook. I only have rumor threads to guide me along for the time being but it does sound rather silly to have Saurus with Spears attacking as follows:

22322
11111
22222

One would surely think that logically (yes I know logic doesn't always work in the Warhammer rules) the rules are meant to suggest attacks going as follows:

22322
22222
11111

Or even ...

22322
22222
00000

Does anyone have the exact wording on Spears and also Supporting Attacks?

I left out one other option... which seems to be the most likely ...

22322
11111
11111

Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
Click to expand...
 
It looks like the last one is correct... Front rank = full attacks, subsequent ranks for whatever reason are considered 'supporting attacks' thus only 1 attack. Except monstrous infantry, but that isn't saurus.

Remember, you get an extra rank if you go 10 wide. That might not be plausible for 25mm bases though. would allow 4 ranks of saurus fighting, if you wanted the unit of 40.
 
Spears do work as that last example:

22322
11111
11111
00000

I'd rather go:

2223222
1111111
0000000

with 11 point saurus, but that's just me.

And yes, as it is currently, Salamanders benefit from the new edition because of this:

-no partial hits on the template
-the benefits to bigger troop units makes for bigger blocks to target.
-as skirmishers, they can march and shoot
-they are aquatic, and there's a TON of water environments possible from the new terrain roll-up, of which they ignore many (if not all) of the effects of.

Hopefully we do see the new FAQs released soon to clarify all our questions...as this is GW, however, I fear we won't.
 
How about Skrox units and the Horde rule plus Support Attacks?

For example:

ssssssssss
K K K K K
K K K K K
ssssssssss
ssssssssss

Would this turn out to be the following...

1111111111
3 3 3 3 3
3 3 3 3 3
0000000000
0000000000
 
I was actually thinking last night about whether 15's with spears are actually worth it. Most combats against anything thats any good the unit will probably loose 2 - 4 models before striking, which actually means you would be paying 15 points and lossing the token parry ward for an extra couple of attacks. Thats all if the unit takes no wounds on the way in.

Just something I have been thinking about last few days.

D
 
Dan Heelan said:
I was actually thinking last night about whether 15's with spears are actually worth it. Most combats against anything thats any good the unit will probably loose 2 - 4 models before striking, which actually means you would be paying 15 points and lossing the token parry ward for an extra couple of attacks. Thats all if the unit takes no wounds on the way in.

Just something I have been thinking about last few days.

D
Click to expand...

If your not going to take at least 4 ranks then I don't see spears being worth it. You are also going to be taking hits from the non guesswork war machines as well before you see combat. So you will need the extra rank to maintain your attacks, and also your going to want a few ranks to counteract steadfast.
 
As a good friend of mine pointed out in regards to the spear Saurus. You made need to purchase an extra rank to be sure you get the 3rd ranks spear attacks by the time you get into combat but you still get the same attacks as we did in 7th edition but what we didn't get in 7th edition was the 2nd rank attacking with 1A on the charge! That is new and a nice benefit... if we get the charge.
 
msinosic said:
As a good friend of mine pointed out in regards to the spear Saurus. You made need to purchase an extra rank to be sure you get the 3rd ranks spear attacks by the time you get into combat but you still get the same attacks as we did in 7th edition but what we didn't get in 7th edition was the 2nd rank attacking with 1A on the charge! That is new and a nice benefit... if we get the charge.
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For me, it is going to be hand weapon and shield all the way. Being very survivable is going to be key in this edition, because if you are charged by some uber daemon who wipes out all but 5 saurus.. you are still stubborn! You have one full rank, he has none. I'll be using my infantry as a solid wall, that will have a 6+ ward save even against very high strength attacks (new parry bonus). And the saurus really aren't losing much by dropping spears. One attack each from the third rank doesn't look like much at all once you are down to just two ranks. And at that point, hand weapon and shield is exactly the same offensively, and flat out better defensively! In my mind spears should fight as normal in the second rank, or maybe allow a max of 2 attacks from the second rank, but that would be complicated. With spells that boost number of attacks I can see how 2 ranks fighting as normal could get overpowered.

Then again, they could errata lizardmen to give our spearmen their second rank attack back. You never know.
 
If you watn them to be survivable take Lore of Life on SLann, +4 T will really help, fack off uber daemon my normal core troop now has T8
 
Caneghem said:
Then again, they could errata lizardmen to give our spearmen their second rank attack back. You never know.
Click to expand...

Can't do that, or we would all just use the saurus we already have. GW needs to give us a reason to shelve the 40 spear saurus we already have and get new ones.

I am glad I held off alot of my model buying until 8th came out.
 
Good point. But also, with the new horde army being so popular, people will still buy more models as we need to ensure that they retain stubborn and get those attacks. Keeping up with the enemy, so to speak.
 
Don't speak to me about buying new stuff. I'd only just completed a 2000 point Lizardmen army (built, not painted) as my first army, then 8th comes out and I "need" all new units and get rid of some of my old ones. Thanks GW. :rage:
 
All part of their MASTER PLAN (marketing plan that is)! :bored:
 
Personally I think spear saurus are still crucial, the parry bonus is statistically half as good as the +1 armor save we used to get if you are fighting things that are str 3. I feel that Saurus are really best at fighting light infantry, and ream fast cav of any kind rather badly. With the capacity for light infantry to be more effective in the new edition, I feel that saurus will still need to be on the table, though in what numbers I don't know.

I think there may be a definite need for some non-spear saurus, especially in a group of 12, just to provide their regular beat down and deal with lighter problems.

I think there is a place for a 30 man unit that's six wide and five deep. Probably need a few of both, honestly.

I can't think of a single unit in the Lizardman codex that became useless in the new edition, not even engine of the gods. In fact, with more shooting, it's gungan bubble is now more useful, making heavens easier to cast is still useful, and Burning alignment is still good since even though they are not as devastating, I think blood knights and chaos knights are still gonna be taken. Weathering a bunch of attacks back isn't hard when you're T4 and 2+ or 1+ armor. A unit of blood knights can just kill an entire unit one by one if it has too.
 
As a lizard men player for about 1.3 years now I wanted to share my option on 8th.

First off I usually play a VERY heavy magic game.
1 EOTG 2 priest usually 1 being Teko’o.
No Taradons I run Chameons.
About 3 units of skinks if not 4
1 group of sala’s between 2 and 3 always with the extra buddy.
16-24 Saurus with spears
Same number if I run TG’s
10 Cold ones (who recently failed their stupidity in 2 games and got benched) (LOL)


So right off the bat I honestly don’t have enough core for the required cost
(Yes I have played 8th about 15 games now, im doing about the same losing to skaven, chaos and Dark elfs)

The Skirmisher block is weak but giving them javelins is a must. They don’t take the -1 for moving -1 for shooting long range and no double tap so it does not matter. Blow pipes are NOT a QUICK to FIRE weapon so … they are the same as they were in 7th. The shields help out in CC when Screening fails and the 6 + Ward can pay off from time to time.

The skinks with Krox is fun. It helps out your core points due to Krox’s being 55 points apiece however. Krox wont go first ever, and they had great reach before this edition. Skins have high int so that helps their shield HW combo helps also.

The saurus block was honestly not changed. We got the second rank to begin with. The next 2 ranks IF we are in a horde are OK. But you SPENT a lot of points on 1 block to just get wiped out by skaven slaves, or black horror. Also noted you cannot use your HW +shields … so we never get our good save and a ward. WHY you ask. The rule state that if you have a better weapon than the hand weapon you will use that weapon until it is destroyed . Also note Saurus have int 1 … so unless you take lore of LIGHT!! (btw this is my new MVP of School) then they go last

Temple Guard. So personally I think TG’s took it the worse. The int 2. 16 point guys who get shield but cant use them in CC because of the Halbert makes them the same as Saur warriors with out spears. We are still tryiong to find a loop hole but that does mean that TG’s get Screwed. .

Cold ones. Meh they seem to be the same. They are not going first but the +2 damage on the charge is nice.

Chameons can march and shoot WOOT. Their new scout is amazing 12inches and can be in LOS. Other than that no change.

Taradons can now take the vanguard move meant and doing second with these bad boys you can get a charge off. … … they are not going first and you will rarely get the rank denied so make sure your hitting small items and not the block of 50 orks.

Krox meh what ever their int 1 makes them poo mush better with in a core.

Steg. Meh not really a change here. Get monster stomp can be positive but trying to keep it alive Is not going to be kool. Make it a Cannon and put it in the back.

Salamander ok so first off HOLY FUCKING SHIT Goooo SALAMANDERS you can take 5 (one group of 2 and one group of 3 ) in a 1750 game (where we play they can march and fire) due to the new rules) even if they don’t I have scored 44 hits and 26 DEAD Chaos warriors but kill yet. MUST be taken

Razord they didn’t really get a buff they can march and shoot by new rules where we play but other wise are meh.

Ancient steg. Meh same as normal steg can be good If you can get the damage off.

OK hero’s
So far the Slaan in a 1750 point game with Light is awesome
Life is good and so is Death

Priests are the same

Chiefs are awesome as always.

And the rest of our cheap hero’s will defiantly see play.

Oxycotton as I call him is not bad either . he’s able to pick out BSB’s and snipe them on turn one is diffidently a Win.

You will most likely NOT take a EOTG under 2k. … its sad but honestly its true.

Heavens did get buffed but EOTG took it up the ass.

Honestly I’m still a little 50 / 50 I use to love magic and my little skirmishers wrecking havoc but with everyone taking 500 point blocks. Its kind of useless. I rely on Comet and Light to get in there and mess things up but I will need more time.


Thanks for reading and FYI English is not my first language.
 
Good info!

Sucks about blowpipes not being 'Quick to Fire.' Maybe they will fix that in the errata.
 
so i guess i'll throw in my opinion on 8th Ed.
i played 2 games yesterday against Chaos. i won the first and draw the second but i thought that the new edition isn't too bad. i brought a slann and figured that yes. the slann is crazy in this new phase of magic. but it still depends on how much you roll on the 2D6. but at the same time, i've never been a fan of magic so i figured, i'm just taking an EotG from now on unless i feel like magic sometime. you really only need 1 caster because i totally neglected my priest and just did everything with the slann. combat isn't that bad either. i faced a horde yesterday and i forget what the horde was but it wasn't too bad. i figured that most horde units would end up being cheap guys so expect it. i'm actually ready to turn my saurus warriors into a horde unit to test out. running them 10 wide and having 4 ranks would give me 40 attacks. that's a lot of attacks but it sounds good to me. i do not like the new template rule but i guess that's just something that i'm going to have to deal with.

Salamanders are the new have to have unit in the army. forget about terradons and chameleon skinks for a second and notice that every player you will have will have to bring ranked up units someway somehow and that's exactly what sallies want. on top of that there are no more partials and that's the beauty of them. i'm a big Razordon fan but man in this new edition i have to use the sallies, and i'm not looking to panic the units but more of to kill them off.

i found that this new edition is KILL and KILL FAST. so i'm going to be doing what i love best and that is combat. i'm going to be using my Oldblood a lot and my scar-vets because a priest with the Engine is good enough seeing how Heavens got better.

the new percentage rules doesn't really effect anything really. my list still turned out to be the way they always are anyways so i wasn't really struggling to find points. i'll post my list i used yesterday in the army list section for those of you who are curious. but that's my 2 cents.
 
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