7th Ed. I just read the new lizardmen codex....

[DonkeyHotep]

The Engine only does d6 str 4 hits, but it allows no armor saves, and it's AOE is 2d6 inches from the Stegadon. It basically Urannon's Thunderbolts everyone within 2d6 of the Engine. Further, it specifically states that you can't pile the bonus onto the same lore, and it has to be one of the 8 basic lores, so if you are in a team game you can't make the lore of Athel Loren or the Lore of Dark magic any easier. That was pretty much the premise of my strategy in a team game with a dark elf player and when we reread that rule we kinda got screwed out of it...

Also, the books that we've seen are surely not the books that will be released, the book I read had some pretty absurd typographical errors in it that couldn't possibly be Gw's finished product.

One thing I have considered doing is taking a skink chief on a Stegadon (or ancient steg) giving him the Stegadon helmet and then....putting him in a block of skinks. If you make the skinks 6 wide and 4 deep with two Krawks in the ranks you'd have 8 skinks in the fighting rank, two Krawks, a steg and a Skeenk Cheef all able to make attacks on the charge! That's a whopping 10 str 6 attacks on the charge plus impact hits! and because the leader is on a steg the whole unit is stubborn at leadership 8! It would cost you 668 points though to make this squad with 20 skinks but it would be a heck of a hard thing to stop.

Skinks on the other hand have become a lot more expensive, the skirmishers with javs are now 8 points...without scout. It looks like we've officially become a block army, or at least the block strategy has become more viable then skink spam.

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

The Engine of the Gods, without the price of the skink is 260 points, and he DOES NOT take up any kind of choice! So, it is now possible to field 10 Seggies, TEN steggies, in a 2000 point list.

Not sure if your right but doesnt a Steggy cost around 235pts? multiply that by 10 & you get 2,350pts....not to mention the rest of the army.

3,000points then maybe but 2,000 NFW..lol

 

[Dalkarius]

The Engine of the Gods, without the price of the skink is 260 points, and he DOES NOT take up any kind of choice! So, it is now possible to field 10 Seggies, TEN steggies, in a 2000 point list.

Not sure if your right but doesnt a Steggy cost around 235pts? multiply that by 10 & you get 2,350pts....not to mention the rest of the army.

3,000points then maybe but 2,000 NFW..lol

I wasn't saying one could afford it, I'm just saying the choices would allow such, and here's just 10 for example.

Mazdammundi (Lord)
3 Mounts for skink chracters (3 Heroes)
4 Regular Steggies (4 Special)
2 Ancients (2 Rare)

Now, you'd have to be playing probably about a 2,850 list or something but you get the point.

 

[WeeDawgNYC]

Wow.. I see your point, very tempting

 

[biggreen]

yes, Slann do lost their generation but they did gain the discipline rule which allows you Custom make your Slann by choosing how many of disciplines you want. You get First is Free, second is 50Pts, Three one is 100pts, fourth is 150pts.

the options are
-allows a Slann to be magic resistance
-allows only magical attacks effected Slann
-gets a free power(miscast and irresistible force applies)
-Slann knows all the spell from your lore of choose
-Slann cost fear

i was reading the 7th edition book in my local GW.

 

[hellbreaker]

etheral slanns!? :O that's awesome, finnally something to counter that cannon fire and knights.

 

[Craken]

That'll work for empire cannons, but remember dwarf cannons count as magical attacks if they have a rune on them.

 

[Axolotl]

I am really really disappointed about this new book.
It might be a little early to complain because i did not even read it yet, but the fact alone that my favourite fat toad got nerfed this badly sucks a lot. I am not willing to accept the risk that a 500 point model might simply miscast and die.
I have a 6000 points Lizardmen army but i think with this book i will not be fielding more than 2000 points of it. My salamanders are much less reliable now so i probably won't take them. Maybe against heavy armored foes...
razordons might be okay but i hate the models.
I will not field my javelin and shield skinks anymore because i can only do so in units and not as skirmishers. sure they get kroxis but that wont help if the enemy kills 10-20 skinks a turn (which a hard combat unit can manage without problems). Not to mention the kroxis strength 6, which makes my khemri opponent smile.
The engine of the gods seems only worth it if you field a few of them and i am not willing to spend that much money after i get an army book like this.
The new magic items might be okay but i really dislike that my number 2 chariot killer (nike-saurus) is also nerfed after the kroxis already got hit with the stick.
The only things I like are the new special characters and the new carnosaur rules....
I guess i will have to field close combat orientated lizardmen now rather than a magic heavy force. What a sad day... The Lizards were my favourite army until now bit i think i will now play my bretonnians more frequently.

Maybe i will review this post in a year and think "well this army book turned out better than i expected" but right now i don't like it. All this book is to me is a strategic move by gw to sell more stegadons and temple guard.... although it is a good thing they come in plastic now.

 

[Aparach]

Havn't read the book myself, but after hearing a bit what 7th edit. lizzis all about, I must say I heavily dissagree with you.
I actually find the new Lizardmen a good bit stronger then before and at the same time much more versatile. Before, you could field a fully equipted 2nd gen slann with plaques and a banner that made fear but that would have cost you over 650 pts. Now, you get an even better slann for about just under 600 pts. Ok he has a minor downgrade in stats, but there apperently is just so many other pros with our new toad like its not a large target and can cast FROM another skink or slann meaning you messure distance from any friendly wizard on the field.
Besides, the facts that almost every unit cost less makes us field alot more dinos: kroxies, saurus, tempels, slann, swarms, cold ones...
And all types of saurus with improved armor! and predatory rule gone, making our spear saurus worth thinking of...

And just the fact that we now has alot more types of units, characters and items makes it much more difficult for our opponents to counter our armies in advance..

Sure, you'll probably have to adapt your playing style, but so does most generals got to do when new army releases arives.

No, I just can't see why you don't like the new Lizardmen, but that just me...

 

[captkurt]

I am really really disappointed about this new book.
I will not field my javelin and shield skinks anymore because i can only do so in units and not as skirmishers. sure they get kroxis but that wont help if the enemy kills 10-20 skinks a turn (which a hard combat unit can manage without problems). Not to mention the kroxis strength 6, which makes my khemri opponent smile.
The engine of the gods seems only worth it if you field a few of them and i am not willing to spend that much money after i get an army book like this.

DOOM! The world is ending!

Ok, equally an exaggeration.

Shield/Javelin is an upgrade to Skink skirmishers, so you do not have to field the ranked unit at all. However, no one is gonna kill 10 Skinks per turn in combat (let alone 20). First, few units have anywhere near that volume of attacks, and those who do are gonna do the same to pretty much any other unit in the game as well. I suspect you will lose 5 on average (they have a 5+ save in CC, Krox a 4+)....but who cares...you are more than likely gonna be 8 wide (maybe 6), and striking back with 2-4 Skink attacks and 9 Kroxigor attacks, at the very least equally matching any but the gnarliest HtH units. Then you have size, and your gonna have the full 5 static CR for a long time. This assumes that you have nothing else special to bring to bear.

Even 1 EotG is amazing, two is very powerful indeed.

I have always run a Southlands army, so I always had the ranked units of Skinks.

I am planning:

Skink Chief on Stegadon w/ 2d6 impact lance
Skink Priest on EotGs
Skink Priest on EotGs
Skink Chief BSB (if allowed)

3 units of 22 Skinks w/ 2 Kroxigor each. That is size 31 to start, full command, causes fear, 5+ save. Weighs in at around 200 points.
2 units of Skink Skirmishers

10 Cameleons
3 Terradons
Stegadon

3 Razordons
3 Salamander

 

[Axolotl]

Well, you guys might be right. After all, maybe the new dex is not that bad at all. In my usual games i always fielded more or less the same list, so it might be an interesting twist to try new stuff out...

It is just that i read this article

http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/200 ... first.html

and maybe got a little carried away because of this. I will just try to not have any opinion until i actually tried a few games with the new dex.

However, i still dislike the idea of ranked skink units. Or do they get any leadership improvements? if not it will be really hard to keep them in combat without running... I mean even goblins can beat skinks in hth... maybe the unit can do ok when fighting to its front but there is no way that it will survive a flank charge. But again this is just my opinion and maybe i will be positively surprised if i try this unit out.

For now my pessimism is gone and i am ready to give the new book a chance.

 

[hellbreaker]

it's said by those who've read the book that skinks now got Ld6 a good deal IMO.

 

[captkurt]

Its clear that the article in question has never used ranked skinks. In almost every battle this is one of my last units standing. The ranked unit is starting with 5 static CR and is gonna keep this for most of the game, now on top of this you have 2-3 Kroxigor swinging...this really tips the sales. Plus these lil guys have 5+ armor in CC, and can easily get a ward save from magic as well.

Skirmishers die to combat because all they have is kills for CR. And they rarely get the kills. Skirmishers also do not have the armor, and no one is gonna pay 8 points a Skink for the shield now.

Sure people now have a choice to attack soft skinks to rack up kills...which the Krox are likely to match, or attack the Krox which are much tougher with a better save. Remember that the "skinks" now cause fear and are immune to the effect of fear. That alone is HUGE!

And in this discussion we are not even taking any characters into account. Put a hero on a Stegadon into that unit, now you are Stubborn, keep your BSB nearby. Now you are rerolling those break tests.

LD 6 on 3 dice is pretty good too.

 

[Revien]

Will skinks still have their WS2 and T2? or will they have some stat upgrades? I want them to at least be able to combat goblins. Poisoned hand weps might make up for it.

 

[Scarloc]

Hey guys, I just signed up to give you some happiness for the new army book for some broken combo's.

Salamanders - Now that they use a template you can march and shoot, deploy 12 inches in march 12 more inches in shoot and average arty dice roll of 4 or 6 inches you are hitting a unit at at least 28 inches away on turn one with 3 strength 3 templates at - 3 to their armor save. Think of this hitting heavy calv or heavy infantry units.

Also it says sallies are not monsters but if all the skink handlers die they have to roll on the monster reaction table in the BRB. The wording of the BRB states "The monster" so even if all your skinks die your sallies will act as normal until they FAQ that.

Razordon's - at only a 12 inch range these guys are going to be hard to use, I can see them more as a charge deterrent on a charge they have to stand and shoot, well they get 2 arty dice each if they stand and shoot. I don't know about you but 6 arty dice worth of str 4 shots will deter me from charging that unit.


Slan - well you are starting around 275 points for a good Lv 4 caster, sure the Oldbloods got the boost that our poor giant frogs lost but you do get some bonuses.

First lizzies got a magic item that increases Ld by 1, give this to your slan making him Ld 10. Then make your Slan the BSB and place him behind your lines (he is casting through your priests anyways. Making your army (well the blocks close to your slan) testing on Ld 11.

Temple guard - I hate sticking my slan in these things, even with cheaper points I still won't be using them.

Terradon riders - For only 300 points you get a unit of 10 of these, that's 10d3 str 3 or 4 (sorry I forgot) no armor saves once per game and still have their poisoned javelin attacks from then on. Also these guys get to fly through forests.

Also get Tick Tack to allow a unit of these to attack from the back.

Camelion Skinks - Probally going to be a staple now for the turn one march blocking.

Stegadons - I only used to use one of these but I can now see myself using at least 2 per army now. The best interpretation I have seen of the poisoned bolt thrower is that on that 6 it automatically hits every rank. Personally I like the 2d6 poisoned attacks from the giant blowpiles better.

I think the new engine of the gods is going to be the new Lizzardman cheese. These things will be giving your units (within 12 inches) a 5+ ward while getting to the enemy and releasing their magic attacks once they are in range. A -1 to a basic lore of your choice is always nice, one for your skinks and another engine for your slan.


****Edit**** I forgot to add our level 1 spell cast on sallies allows you to re-roll your partial template hits that you get a 1 on and your wounds, it is much more effective then tossing it on a shooting unit as you will have so many more hits.

 

[msinosic]

Also it says sallies are not monsters but if all the skink handlers die they have to roll on the monster reaction table in the BRB. The wording of the BRB states "The monster" so even if all your skinks die your sallies will act as normal until they FAQ that.

That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? It's the equivalent of saying alot of those new rules in any of the army books released after the rule book was released that contradict or even slightly change a rule from the rule book you can just ignore (especially if it benefits you).

Spirit of the Game or even common sense would say. That big angry Not-Monster which was being poked in the direction of your choice by the skink herders now has no one to poke it in the direction of your choice. What do you think it is going to do now?

 

[Dalkarius]

There's definately a number of interesting comments here.

Firstly, I agree that if the Lizardmen book states to roll on the monster reaction table (which it does, but I think you have to fail a leadership test first) then you roll on it, whether or not it's a "monster". Plus, the marching AND shooting bit is correct, which actually makes these guys considerably more worth taking.

Razordons, I wouldn't give them too much crap. These boys can decimate any block unit, even skirmishers! At BS 3 we'll almost always be hitting on 4+ unless your foe uses skirmishers which puts you at a 5+, and the potential to deal 6 artilarry di worth of Str 4 shots? Are you kidding me? That could bring almost any heavy cavalry crashing down! Granted we need to watch out for misfires.

Slann: NO ONE better come up to me and even dare trying to say a Slann isn't as magically potent as they used to be. That's bull. If you want to make some ridiculous 600 point Slann that's basically a God, go right ahead! With four abilities you could give him all 6 spells of one lore, a "free" power di for each spell, Regeneration, cause Terror, only be hit by magical attacks, MR (3), Re-roll miscast result, and one Wizard within 24" doesn't count 6's for irresistable force! That's ridiculous, not to mention they can also take 100 points of magic items and be a BSB with any point banner NEXT TO their items!

If you're so scared of miscasting, take the item that allows you to transfer a miscast on to an enemy wizard, personally I think that's hilarious. Or you can give him a sneak Uranon's Thunderbolt Bound Spell! Slann can now take magic weapons! (Which I thought was cool, but kinda pointless) I myself have created Slann that could utterly DESTROY the old buffed up 2nd Generations.

Now, granted some features I was sad about, like not being able to switch lores and no longer immune to miscast...but that's it. Sure the stat dump sucks, but it made us cheaper and able to hide in units and see through them or cast THROUGH a priest! NO other army can do that! Slann are still some of the most dangerous damn wizards on the battlefield, that, I say without a doubt!

Plus, to top it off, through him out there with an Engine giving him -1 to cast his lore! The Engine of the Gods is something I'll never leave home without. It gives a combat army protection vs. those damn SAD armies and magic heavy armies, plus the new Terradons are AMAZING with their AUTO-HITTING Str 4 D3 hits per Terradon during the REMAINING MOVEMENT PHASE on any unit a single Terradon flew over. We have the power to cause Panic in the Movement phase! That's ridiculous!

So if you so much as dare to think about bad-talking these new boys, go read the new book first and make 3-4 lists, THEN you can come cry to me!

 

[To-neh of LaTigra]

Even though Sallies use the template, it is not a breath weapon and thus, you cannot march and shoot. Both the Sallies and Razordons have a rule that specifically says they cannot march and shoot.

 

[Scarloc]

Hmmn I thought I gave them both a good look over but I was at the store and only did a speed read. There may be a rule like that.

 

[didleoman]

Even though Sallies use the template, it is not a breath weapon and thus, you cannot march and shoot. Both the Sallies and Razordons have a rule that specifically says they cannot march and shoot.

they can move and shoot but like LaTigra said... it doesn't say breath weapon so you can't march and shoot