7th Ed. Halberds and Hand Weapons - Temple Guard

[RIGHT-Titan]

I was reading today, and mulling over choices as to what I wanted in my army, and when I was looking at the Temple Guard entry and then reading about Halberds.. I'm torn on what to use.

I like the idea of my front 6 guys having ST5 attacks instead of the stock 4, but I also like the fact that in close combat with a hand weapon and shield they have a 2+ armor save standard, which they lose if they use the Halberd in combat because it's 2 handed.

Given that they are there to GUARD my Slann, is the consensus to let them be the stone fortress to protect my Slann and use their hand weapons? Or do most people let them swing free and true with the extra ST boost from the Halberd.

I fully expect that there will exceptions.. like if someone is foolish enough to attempt to take them out with weak enemies and I'll just rip through them.. but I'm looking for a generalization..

What do you use?

 

[Stegadeth]

It depends. I have some people who use their Slann/TG blocks as anvil units. I have seen some who don't mind using them to pick up and flank an enemy if the opportunity presents itself and they can avoid a flank or rear charge themselves. Honestly, I like them as handweapon and shield. Of course, I play a bunker with mine.

 

[kroxigor01]

Depends entirely on the situation. Though I admit most of the time I use shields as my TG are rarely the ones to press the attack. In fact a game where my TG do not engage at all is a game won (or at least drawn. Seriously, this one block costs 800 points, and has 1100 VPs in it).

 

[Bibamus]

halberds are worth it if you charge something that will break, otherwise i would stay with HW/Sheild for my hanvil unit to minimese the caualties, as kroxigor01 said, the unit is expensiv enough without hightening the risks to lose it

 

[RIGHT-Titan]

Sorta my feelings on it too. Glad to see I'm not alone. It's just too expensive to risk losing 2 off the armor save without any help from a high str enemy.

 

[BlackFrog]

When you consider the CR of 16 TG with a Standard and a Slann with a BSB, possiblally a Battle standard as well you need to concentrate on static CR. Sword and board works better 90% of the time.

Spear Sarus, with potential for 25 str 4 attacks in a 6 wide unit, on the on the other hand are all about the kills.

 

[erians]

I have to agree with pretty much every1 else, I always use Sword n' Board except when fighting stuff that can't hurt me anyway and/or that can't be broken by static ress, like a Zombie/skelleton/ghoul tar pit or a big unit of Flaggelants. It also depends a little on if there is a hammer in sight. If you can flank them with a unit of CoC then there is little point in trying to do any damage with Halberds while if there is no hammer unit in a good position then you might be worth doing the damage yourself.

A general rule when deciding what weapon to pick (especially for Stubborn troops) is thinking "what about next round?". If a great weapon wielding unit charge you, like Questing knights, Greatswords or Executioners, then it might be worth getting a few extra TGs killed in order to dish out a ton of S5 attacks back in the next round of combat (12 attacks kills 5 Greatswods, which means they Halberd is actually better both defensivley and offensivley). The low In on TGs generally means striking last tho, and +2 save is imo often better than +1 S.

 

[boredoom]

I just ran the numbers on this, looking at Temple Guard fighting different types of Dwarfs, but the results should be applicable to other rathers.

Basically, if you get charged by hard-hitting units like Hammerers or Slayers, it pays to put up the shield wall. Against less hitty units, say ones putting out 5xS3 or 5xS4 attacks, the halberds are better, at least if the opponents are armored.

The Halberds are also better in nearly every case where you have the charge. The possible exception would be Unbreakable or Stubborn units. Stubborn, save 5+ great-weapon wielders like Hammerers are probably best dealt with using Halberds, but in fighting unarmored Slayers, the shields and hand weapons provide long-term survivability.

 

[nzkoston]

hey im new to LM. Just wondering with the temple guard i see you have posted that they get 2+ armour save in combat? i thought it was 3+ with Light armour, Shield and 5+ scaly skin?

Also, can you choose to go with halberds in the first round of combat and then switch to sword and board in the next round? or do you have to stick with which ever you choose in the 1st round. Seeing as they seem to carry both.

 

[n810]

that was in 7th edition man....

 

[Anton_S]

Also, can you choose to go with halberds in the first round of combat and then switch to sword and board in the next round? or do you have to stick with which ever you choose in the 1st round. Seeing as they seem to carry both.

Like n810 said, this is a two year old topic from the last edition. In the current edition there is no choice, you have to use your halberds all the time whether you like it or not.

 

[nzkoston]

oh wow, i didnt even take notice of the date. just did a search and asked. sorry about that.

So how it lists that they carry Halberds, hand weapon and shields, you can actually only use the halberd?. Also halberds are 2 handed so no shields in combat?

 

[Arli]

Correct. They benefit from the shield against shooting attacks, but not in CC. They do go last and the str is 5 (which does make a difference).

 

[Moniker]

"If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the Close Combat phase - he cannot elect to wield his hand weapon instead. The reason for this is quite straightforward. Almost all warriors train exclusively with one particular weapon, honing their skills of attack and defence with the chosen tool of slaughter. Such warriors are reluctant to surrender advantage to the foe by fighting with a less familiar, or less powerful, weapon. Should the special weapon be destroyed then, and only then, can they use their hand weapon."

And why do they have both?

"Why do we assume every model has a hand weapon? The same pragmatism that leads a warrior to favour the weapon with which he is most skilled also drives him to carry a spare weapon of some kind (normally a short sword, dagger or other non-encumbering weapon) in case his main weapon is lost or destroyed. This doesn't happen that often in Warhammer, and is normally due to the effect of a spell cast by the enemy, but we retain the 'every model has a hand weapon' rule to ensure that our warriors always have a chance to fight the enemy"

 

[nzkoston]

ah cool! thanks guys

 

[Scalenex]

that was in 7th edition man....

Referring to the AS 2, or the ability to choose between hw and shield or halberd?

 

[Arli]

Choosing between HW and Halberds. I know that the standard save vs shooting is 3+ on TG. 4+ in combat (no shield then).

 

[Raithial]

In my situation, I tend to wield Halberds, simply for added Strength, and that can do a lot in Close Combat against enemies like Ogres. against skaven, elves or the likes I keep to handweapons and shields.
well, I tend to lead from the front with my Life-slann. that way I know my enemy will think twice about shooting artilery at him ^^
the +1 armoursave from the shields is really usefull against skaven and dark elves because then they'll have a 3+ armour-save in Close combat, and a 4+ in ranged from the Dark Elves. So tailor it somewhat to your opponent and you'll have yourself a blast ^_^

 

[erians]

In my situation, I tend to wield Halberds, simply for added Strength, and that can do a lot in Close Combat against enemies like Ogres. against skaven, elves or the likes I keep to handweapons and shields.
well, I tend to lead from the front with my Life-slann. that way I know my enemy will think twice about shooting artilery at him ^^
the +1 armoursave from the shields is really usefull against skaven and dark elves because then they'll have a 3+ armour-save in Close combat, and a 4+ in ranged from the Dark Elves. So tailor it somewhat to your opponent and you'll have yourself a blast ^_^

Heh, you probably should have read the whole thread. You can't choose any more, you have to always fight with Halberds. The topic is waaay old, back when we still had 7th ed WH.

 

[Raithial]

In my situation, I tend to wield Halberds, simply for added Strength, and that can do a lot in Close Combat against enemies like Ogres. against skaven, elves or the likes I keep to handweapons and shields.
well, I tend to lead from the front with my Life-slann. that way I know my enemy will think twice about shooting artilery at him ^^
the +1 armoursave from the shields is really usefull against skaven and dark elves because then they'll have a 3+ armour-save in Close combat, and a 4+ in ranged from the Dark Elves. So tailor it somewhat to your opponent and you'll have yourself a blast ^_^

Heh, you probably should have read the whole thread. You can't choose any more, you have to always fight with Halberds. The topic is waaay old, back when we still had 7th ed WH.

one has to wonder then why the Temple-guards still have hand-weapons in their list?.. and that it hasn't been FAQ'ed?...