8th Ed. GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

[furiouscado]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Great feedback and some expected/unexpected criticisms that are great too!!

My rebuttal...

Saurus characters on Cold Ones - they are pretty much the shizzle, but as I discovered a couple of weekends ago... prime cannon sniping bait

I was thinking about this issue and the whole idea of the list is to get into combat FAST! That's why you have Tetto'eko, the banner of swiftness, etc. So my IDEA is that they're going to favor shooting the Oldblood first. Even in a open list, they probably won't notice the Charmed Shield and I'd get a 2+ save against the cannon shot. By turn 2, I'm probably charging, or being charged.. so no more cannon shots. Also, with some many skink units, I may even be able to block LoS if I'm clever about it and/or use the terrain to my advantage. Otherwise, I'm right there that it's just bad news bear to have the cavalry in the unit.

WD is a solid choice, won't and can't deny it. I just really like Light, and don't really like paying an additional 30 points for spell selection.

It did sting to pay the extra 30 points, but this way I KNOW I have searing doom for heavy cav, Wyssan's for buffing, Shem's for DPs or other undead/daemons, ice shards for war machines/archers, miasma for the Chosen warriors' WS, and sprit leech for battle-hardy characters that have a tough hide and can't be targeted with searing doom... just feels like the flexibility is worth it when I don't know exactly what I'm up against.

Lore of Beasts is a good lore no doubt. But you've already got Wildform from the Slann, plus all the Sig spells, plus Loremaster; it just seems you might be starved for power dice.

So the idea is to get TWO Wyssan's off once I'm in combat range. It also gives me TWO attempts with TWO different casters to get those saurus up to S5/T5 which will make WORLDS of difference in combat.. even with earthblood, miasma, etc...

As for the 'being starved' the idea is I have 5 channel dice, 3 of which get me PD on 5+. AND the spells are so cheap, that I only need to roll 2 dice for almost every single one... average of 7 PD per turn, and 1 channel, that's 4 spell attempts a turn with 1's being re-rolled, and very low miscast chance... feels right... but I'm looking for non-believers.

Why Tetto in the Kroxigor unit? I wouldn't really want him in combat. He can hang out in the 20 man Cohort instead.

Great point! Over-priced bodyguard that doesn't make sense to not have in combat. I was figuring it would stay on the weak flank to stop fast cav, to stay safe while offering flanking / rank breaking / str 7 potential should it go war machine / archer hunting. Tetto won't really be casting anything unless I don't have any other options. I'll consider a re-work and bring another list tomorrow as I don't have the time/energy to revise tonight. Also don't want to hijack your thread! I just want to pursue this heavy mobility side of Lizardmen!

? 22 TG is on the lower side, and I try to keep to 24 as a minimum.

So, aside from point restrictions, I got that number by rounding the unit out with two mounted Saurus and a Slann, which fills 8 more models worth of space, making it a 30 model unit. If that unit gets ground down too much, it means the game is already out of hand. The idea is to get to them soon to mitigate the losses, pump the unit by having two possible Wyssan's and WIN the fights and BREAK the lines. Now, I don't know if I have enough hammer units without CoR and Steggies, but part of the fun is figuring it out!


EDIT: Also, I can't take CoR because I don't have enough models with all the mounted characters!! #facepalm

 

[furiouscado]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Well hoping I didn't kill this thread, I'll push forward with "Blocks of Saurus shouldn't be taken in a competitive list"

GCPD, I think you had it right from the getgo. There's just so much S5/6 out there that the Saurus blocks really do nothing but soak up points.

I think the way to go is:

1-2 units of skroxigors with 2 kroxigors max (depending on list size)

3-4 Cohort blocks of 15-20

1-3 Skirmishers


The way your list has been trending is to have 3 combat-heavy scarvets/old bloods on cold ones. What the skinks allow you to do is have multiple options of bunkers for individual characters to deploy in and have the ability to cause havok around the outside. Most of the meta now will no allow you to engage a large block of virtually anything.

The only combat relevant unit Lizardmen have is Temple Guard and they're not even that great at it unless you manage multiple buff/de-buffs on the combat.

 

[Juhaaha]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

I got only two minor suggestions

-Dragonbanegem for egg guy (to counter h4xwraihts)

-Cohorts really need musicians

Also consider taking 6sh cold one guys w/music to act as a launching pad for your heroes.

Other than that looks good!

 

[GCPD]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Apologies furiouscado, had a hectic weekend! You raised some good points, and I didn't really have anything to add as you seemed to have a clear idea of what you wanted to do and how to achieve it. All I was going to say was that the best hammers are Scar-Vets and Temple Guard anyway Although I do miss my Stegadon...

Over on Warseer, there was quite a debate in the Tactics section recently about making Saurus work. The consensus of those who did seemed to be that that 30-40+ is the way to go, preferably backed up by a Scar-Vet or an Oldblood (Or Gor-Rok). Now, I won't necessarily disagree with that if its working for people. I tried it, and my most vivid memory is that my block of 30 something couldn't hit crap, couldn't wound crap, frequently got chased off, and more often than not ended up dying in droves to Purple Sun. Now, granted, they were most often fighting Warriors of Chaos (and actual Warriors, no less), but throughout the whole ordeal I kept thinking to myself that Skinks would have done a better job and for less, but with more poison and less Purple Sun.

I then hit on the idea of running a smallish block with an Oldblood just as a secondary combat unit. And you know what? In hindsight, they actually weren't all that bad. Granted, the unit once got rolled by a Stank, and twice got Sun'd, but in the other three games they did a pretty good job. Well, pretty good as in they weren't completely atrocious as I expected: once fighting a Black Knight Bus with Red Fury/Quicklblood Vamp to a standstill, once fighting off a unit of Demigryphs (until being run down by a baby Knight bus), and once beating a unit of Crypt Horrors (before being screamed off by a Terrorgheist). Now, granted, in all those engagements the Oldblood was doing most of the work (when he was actually hitting things...), but still its something that Skinks couldn't have done. And this got me thinking that maybe I just need to lower my expectations, and stop putting them up against WoC.

Yes, more Skinks is without a doubt the more efficient choice (which is why I added a second Skirmisher unit). But you know what? If I wanted to play a shoot/avoidance low Toughness list, I'd go play my Dark Elves (Even though I run a combat build on my Dark Elves, its just that they do shoot/avoidance even better than Wood Elves ). If I really wanted to optimise, I'd replace the Saurus with Skinks and drop the Terradons for more Temple Guard and a Priest caddy on Beasts- in other words, much like every other Lizardmen player out there, but I'm already uncomfortably close to the "net build" as it is, and I want something that works for me. I like Saurus, even if they aren't all that great, and I reckon that one medium sized unit of 18-24 isn't all that detrimental. I'm actually thinking of switching the Blastydon out for a cheap Oldblood with Sword of Striking, LA and Enchanted Shield to go in the unit and just thrash out some S5. Dunno, will need to playtest this, and he'll probably end up with the Temple Guard anyway...

On Saurus vs Kroxigor, I've actually done very well with Skrox units despite the 8th changes. I like 'em, too. But perhaps its because their excellent movement allows you to get them into the best match ups - ie, fighting big monster things with no ranks. Its a shame that you can target the Kroxigor and Thunderstomp the Skinks, though, but they can usually do pretty well with just an Iceshard. I ran 4 with 30+ Skinks once and they did okay, but nothing to write home about. I never did manage the 2 Krox units though, as they just seem a lot of micromanagement for little pay off.

Temple Guard are pretty much The Shit, though.

 

[teufelhund]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

I always take a 20 man unit of saurus sword & board FC just in case I end up playing watchtower. They are a bit of a point sink, but it's another point of fortitude, most comp isn't going to let me have more than 3-4 units of skirmishers and skrox are a no-go. The points have to be spent in core anyway and they are nothing to laugh at when up against some other comp friendly entries from the other armies. Sometimes I like to even attach a scar-vet on foot just to them some extra oomph. They're nothing to sneeze at on the flank and fairly survivable. They are my favorite toolbox choice, and like I said you have to spend the core points anyway. Just my thoughts.

 

[NexS1]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Over on Warseer, there was quite a debate in the Tactics section recently about making Saurus work. The consensus of those who did seemed to be that that 30-40+ is the way to go, preferably backed up by a Scar-Vet or an Oldblood (Or Gor-Rok).

If you're taking Gor-Rok, I suggest probably 25 spears and maybe a 3+/4++ Great Weapon scar vet to protect him from challenges (as the lack of ward save on him is a challenge magnet). Harmonic convergeance is golden on him, to protect you from the inevitable roll of 1.
Gor-Rok is great, I love him!

He might even be good to add to your krox unit (if not coming up against a cannon). I have tried 6 kroxigors once, and they failed miserably, then ran. Stubborn LD 8 would be nice in there...

 

[GCPD]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

So I'm going to a no comp End Times tournament in November and thinking of running Lizardmen. So here is my Legion of Light!

Slann Mage-Priest: Harmonic Convergence; Channelling Staff; Lore of Light; Battle Standard Bearer
Slann Mage-Priest: Dispel Scroll
Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; shield
Saurus Oldblood: The Piranha Blade; Dawnstone; Potion of Strength; Enchanted Shield; light armour

12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; musician; standard bearer
20 Saurus Warriors: Spawn Leader; musician; standard bearer
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields

24 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard)
3 Ripperdactyl Riders
5 Chameleon Skinks

2,392 points

I'd like to get Resivoir on one Slann but would need to drop the Dawn Stone to do it. I could also swap the rippers for one temple guard and a unit of terradons.

 

[NexS1]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

If you're going no-comp, why the cohorts?

Also, where is the piranha blade going to sit?

Glad to see you back here

 

[VampTeddy]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

So I'm going to a no comp End Times tournament in November and thinking of running Lizardmen. So here is my Legion of Light!

Slann Mage-Priest: Harmonic Convergence; Channelling Staff; Lore of Light; Battle Standard Bearer 370
Slann Mage-Priest: Dispel Scroll 325
Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; shield 252
Saurus Oldblood: The Piranha Blade; Dawnstone; Potion of Strength; Enchanted Shield; light armour 249

12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer 80
20 Skinks: Skink Brave; musician; standard bearer 130
20 Saurus Warriors: Spawn Leader; musician; standard bearer 250
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields 70

24 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard) 411
3 Ripperdactyl Riders 120
5 Chameleon Skinks 65

2,392 points

I'd like to get Resivoir on one Slann but would need to drop the Dawn Stone to do it. I could also swap the rippers for one temple guard and a unit of terradons.

Remember the Individual points costs GCPD!


I must say your lists usually have a habit of inspiring me (or used to at least), now my lists resemble yours so much that i can't say they're inspirING me as much as they've inspirED me.

My experience with Ripper's are mixed, against armies with i3 or higher (that's a lot eh?) they have a habit of dying fast, and against armies with good shooting (a lot again) they die fast as well. Having to protect them by deploying them safely is kinda counterproductive to their battlefield role.

I've had much greater luck with teradons, at least in the surviving spectrum of things, people tend to view them as a minor nuisance (mostly because that's what they are), but they can pull surprises out when people treat them like that, and they're a cheaper loss if people see them as threats!

I'm not hooked upon the idea of reservoir myself, i feel that i almost always seem to need every dispel dice i have, and in those moments where i don't, i'm not sure a 2+ 2-3 times a game to get a dice is fully worth it. I know it's only 10 slaves, but i much more often find i never do not use every dispel dice, because there are some spells you have to get rid off, X-X-1 with becalming is okay, but X-X-1 is better. I'd also much rather have X-X+y than i'd have X-X an have a chance of getting a dice, but maybe not stopping let's say... dwellers on the slann bunker, or even better, purple sun.

I'd probably buy a Chamo as well, rather than another TG, just to get those extra 2 shots, i feel like he would do more of a difference than 1 TG.

Also at 2392 you might as well add a skink skirmisher to one of the units.

 

[GCPD]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Thanks for taking a look! I've edited out the points values - apologies, this is posted directly from Quatermaster. I've actually tweaked the list again and will get it up later.

On Cohorts, this is because the event is called Blood and Glory and I suspect Fortitude will be critical, and Cohorts are a cheap way of getting it. They also double up as chaff plus serve as bunkers, especially in the early game before combat when I won't want my Slann joining the Temple Guard.

On Piranha Blade, he'll join the Saurus (if I'm only facing one high T/W/AS model or unit), and in the Temple Guard if I'm facing several (eg vs WoC).

On inspiring lists. Its great to hear some is taking something out of it Vamp! What are you running (sounds similar) and how are you finding it? Light as well?

On Rippers. I prefer Terradons too, but I feel the need to add another combat unit in this list. They should be fairly useful at chasing small chaff units off terrain objectives, and with Light Slann they could actually do quite well. Plus, with this End Times business having some Killing Blow is worthwhile.

On Resivoir. I've grabbed it because I'm spending 600+ on magic and feel the need to maximise power dice generation to make the most of it.

 

[VampTeddy]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

On inspiring lists. Its great to hear some is taking something out of it Vamp! What are you running (sounds similar) and how are you finding it? Light as well?

I run a lot of skink cohorts, as opposed to running Skirmishers, well, in theory i do, i don't get as many games as i want to, and my painting has hence been rather lax. I'm not really turned on by your use of saurus warriors, but i can see why you're doing it!

Right now i'm toying with something VERY skink heavy, and usually i would probably add in a cowboy, maybe 2 (though usually my one cowboy takes the form of a Carno rider).

I'd also normally go for a Templeguard unit with a slann, 26 strong to get the 6 x 5 formation i want.


CUrrently my list looks like the following though.


+ Heroes +

* Skink Chief
(Aquatic, Cold-Blooded, Scaly Skin (*))
Light Armour, Magic Items, Shield
* Battle Standard Bearer
AB - Skavenpelt Banner


* Skink Chief
(Aquatic, Cold-Blooded, Scaly Skin (*))
Shield
* Magic Items
BRB - Gambler's Armour, BRB - Ironcurse Icon


* Skink Chief
(Aquatic, Cold-Blooded, Scaly Skin (*))
Light Armour, Shield
* Magic Items
BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Potion of Strength, BRB - Sword of Swift Slaying


* Skink Chief
(Aquatic, Cold-Blooded, Scaly Skin (*))
Light Armour, Shield
* Magic Items
AB - The Egg of Quango, BRB - Dragonhelm, BRB - Relic Sword
* Terradon



* Skink Chief
(Aquatic, Cold-Blooded, Scaly Skin (*))
Light Armour, Shield, Spear
* Magic Items
BRB - Charmed Shield, BRB - Seed of Rebirth
* Terradon



* Skink Priest
(Aquatic, Arcane Vassal, Cold-Blooded, Scaly Skin (*))
Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2
* Magic Items
AB - Cube of Darkness


* Skink Priest
(Aquatic, Arcane Vassal, Cold-Blooded, Scaly Skin (*))
Lore of Beasts, Wizard Level 2
* Magic Items
BRB - Dispel Scroll


+ Core +

* General / BSB / Fighty skink - Skink Cohort x 37



* Skink priest holder - Skink Cohort x 29



* Skink Priest bunker - Skink Cohort x 14



* Skink Skirmishers x 10



* Skink Skirmishers x 10



+ Special +

* Bastiladon


* Jungle Swarms



* Jungle Swarms



* Stegadon
Sharpened


+ Rare +

* Ancient Stegadon
Sharpened

* Salamander Hunting Pack x 2


* Salamander Hunting Pack x 2



I'm trying to find something fast, the above list is for an escalation league, and is meant to be rather fluffy, but still attempting to do something strong. I am very much in doubt about some of the units, as to whether they will do well, but it's mostly to try out something a bit whacky, and see what i come up with. That is the final goal, and might change during the league, but i am invested in keeping it "all-skink".


Where i feel my lists resemble yours are in the Cohorts with Command and the lesser amounts of Skirmishers, even though a lot of skinks are in the lists.

So well, in reality my lists mostly resemble yours in the starting goal, while the final result differ somewhat! The speed is something i am keen to try and find a good answer to, that is my starting question, "how do i manage a fast yet combat capable Lizard list".

Should i do double slann, i'm not sure i would have thought of a date of light (council is a bit of a big word no?) without you coming up with it. I might consider however changing one of the Slann out for a High slann (though losing str in turn 1 and the risk of completely losing Banishment D:!), and doing the same thing, i've defo thought about the double slann! it seems like a Fluffy, but still somewhat solid choice!



Hope that post isn't too messy to understand

 

[GCPD]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

What an interesting list! Hope to hear how it performs. Have you considered adding Kroxigor or poison to the big Skink unit?

So here is what I am currently looking at:

Slann Mage-Priest: Harmonic Convergence; Channelling Staff; Lore of Light; Battle Standard Bearer
Slann Mage-Priest: Reservoir of Eldritch Energy; Dispel Scroll
Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; shield
Saurus Oldblood: The Piranha Blade; Potion of Strength; Enchanted Shield; Luckstone; light armour

18 Saurus Warriors: Spawn Leader; musician; standard bearer
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer

28 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard)
3 Ripperdactyl Riders

2,391 points

The camouflage skins are gone for more temple guard because a) as the maint combat unit they are going to need the models to soak up all the attention and b) I don't fancy making another skirmish movement tray by the event!

 

[sorrowquin]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

What lore is the 2nd Slann running?
I'd fancy double light... really missed loremaster light in the new book but here we are back at it =)

 

[GCPD]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

It is Light!

 

[VampTeddy]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

What an interesting list! Hope to hear how it performs. Have you considered adding Kroxigor or poison to the big Skink unit?

So here is what I am currently looking at:

Slann Mage-Priest: Harmonic Convergence; Channelling Staff; Lore of Light; Battle Standard Bearer
Slann Mage-Priest: Reservoir of Eldritch Energy; Dispel Scroll
Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; shield
Saurus Oldblood: The Piranha Blade; Potion of Strength; Enchanted Shield; Luckstone; light armour

18 Saurus Warriors: Spawn Leader; musician; standard bearer
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer

28 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard)
3 Ripperdactyl Riders

2,391 points

The camouflage skins are gone for more temple guard because a) as the maint combat unit they are going to need the models to soak up all the attention and b) I don't fancy making another skirmish movement tray by the event!

I completely understand the change from all Chamo's to TG's, had you only changed 1 as in the original post i'd have gone for Chamo's, but removing them altogether i feel, is an even more solid idea - they rarely deliver for me in larger battles, and you have plenty of skinks to sneak around!

I'm a bit surprised that you haven't fit the banner of swiftness on your BSB, it seems like something you usually do.

I am assuming the BSB slann isn't the general? or do they both go into the same unit?

And what unit does your foot oldblood go into? His lack of a ward save, i thought at first, might be a problem, but then i remembered you went light, so hopefully he smashes things before they smash him with high str ^^

I'm still uncertain about the ripper's, but when they work, they really really do work, and they might go very well with light, pha's protection against shooting, and ASF or Ini 10 will help them loads!

/rant entry

The only thing i dislike are the saurus, but i think that's because of some dreaded experiences with them. First game i ever saw i 1 initiative troops go against purple, it wiped ½ the army turn one (it was tomb kings), i told my friend, that if he ever pulled that on me, the game would end before it began (it was teclis in the old edition, and he kept bragging about how he was almost certain to IF it without any risk, it was the entire plan of the army), the next time i dared bring saurus myself i went against the little whaagh, and lost 29/30 saurus. I won, but that was quite a hard experience, and i guess i became rather jaded towards saurus.

My TG has experience the same, but they "only" lost the 4/6th they should.

That said, i feel saurus on paper look great, i disagree with some of my friends when they say they're equal to WoC, they propably mean without upgrades (an who does that), but they're a solid brick, and the numbers you're bringing, i feel are just about right, maybe i should try that, enough to hold, few enough to lose a bunch and not rage for 5 mins. /rant over



About my list, i HAVE considered krox, but i feel it would make them cost too much, i like having them be an anvil with some CR creation through the skinks.

Poison i want so much, but i can't seem to find the points, and i decided that the Jungle swarms should create mobile poison, not sure about them at all though, they're mostly there to try them, and because i brought a Bastiladon with snake pit. But i might just end up with 1 Jungle swarm unit!

The whole idea is to Anvil it up, and try to smash into the flanks with my mobile hammers - Stegadon's and bastiladon, and Terrachiefs.

I am dreading my LD though, so maybe even a single krox would be a good idea... Have to test it first!

 

[GCPD]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Hi again Vamp!

I don't have any points remaining in my Lord allowance (I'm at about 49% with some 4 points to spare! o.o), so no magic banner this time. If I did, it would probably be the boring old Standard of Discipline, anyway. I'm probably going to make the BSB the General as well - that way, I can sit him in a unit of Skinks directly behind the Temple Guard block out of harm's way, and have the non-BSB Slann sat in there granting the Stubborn.

Oldblood will jump between the Saurus unit and the Temple Guard depending on match ups. Against something like WoC, I'll take an all-eggs-in-one-basket approach and have him in the TG where I can concentrate buffs. Otherwise, he might go in the Saurus unit - but they are really only there to capture objectives with their banner, so maybe not. He could have the Dawnstone for uber protection rather than a Ward, but yes the idea is that he gets buffed up and smashes face first.

On the subejct of Saurus, whoever told you they are the equals of Chaos doesn't know one (or both) books at all. Nonetheless, they are in because: a) I really can't bring myself to paint more Skinks, and b) I really can't bring myself to only play Skinks in Core. Yes, they'll probably get Sun'd off as they have done in the past. But in the last event I brought them to they did... okay. Not amazing. But okay. They held up a Black Knight bus for a couple of rounds (with some help from an Oldblood, but he was in a challenge with a Quickblood/Red Fury vamp, so the point still stands). They very nearly ground out a unit of Demigryphs (again, with some help). People, including me, tend to overlook them, so they can oftentimes surprise - as you say, if they achieve something then great. If they don't, then no big. But if somebody wants to direct their attention against the Saurus and away from the Temple Guard, then that's just fine by me.

On the subject of Purple Sun, this is why Light is my favorite lore. Just bubble Speed of Light every turn. It only needs maybe 3 dice on a Slann, and most of the time you aren't in combat your opponent probably won't be all that fussed about stopping it, too. No Sun problems.

Won't you be able to afford poison if you drop one of the Swarm units? Its two points per model and you've got 37, so knock it down to 36 and you're in. This poor costing/internal balance is one of the big issues that I have with Swarms.

 

[VampTeddy]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Hi again Vamp!

I don't have any points remaining in my Lord allowance (I'm at about 49% with some 4 points to spare! o.o), so no magic banner this time. If I did, it would probably be the boring old Standard of Discipline, anyway. I'm probably going to make the BSB the General as well - that way, I can sit him in a unit of Skinks directly behind the Temple Guard block out of harm's way, and have the non-BSB Slann sat in there granting the Stubborn.

Oldblood will jump between the Saurus unit and the Temple Guard depending on match ups.

On the subejct of Saurus, whoever told you they are the equals of Chaos doesn't know one (or both) books at all. Nonetheless, they are in because: a) I really can't bring myself to paint more Skinks, and b) I really can't bring myself to only play Skinks in Core.

Won't you be able to afford poison if you drop one of the Swarm units? Its two points per model and you've got 37, so knock it down to 36 and you're in. This poor costing/internal balance is one of the big issues that I have with Swarms.

That explains the banner! And i can see the sense in protecting him behind your lines, i might personally consider to buff one cohort unit in numbers though, since any magic missile that's decent, or catapult could remove enough skinks to have less that 5 models, then again, pha's

Smart idea on the Oldblood, and i actually like his build quite a bit, it's nasty, i just looked at him, considered the ward, and noticed the ingenuity of having him in a light list!

The people who told me they're equals, claimed that they had done the math on it (which i have a hard time believing) and had even seen them get slaughtered by a rather large group of goblins in a game (whilst still believing them the equals of WoC), in my saurus defense, some of the goblins had great weapons though! and there were quite a lot of other opponents in that fight, including trolls and a chariot, the wound to wounds against the gobbo's though, favoured the gobbo's. (again, saurus and me don't seem to get along).

I also have issues with bringing all skirmishers as core, but bringing large numbers of skinks as roadblocks doesn't feel nasty to me in the same way, it doesn't feel boring either, especially not when i drop in chiefs and the likes, it's something i've been wanting to try for a while (the skink killer unit) and the new rules gives me that opportunity (YAY!)

Why is it you have an issue with all skink core? I assume it's the double flee bonanza and the art of boring your opponent so much it isn't fun to play anymore?

I've followed your suggestion in my own list, you're completely correct. It's going to hurt my love of neat squares, but they wouldn't stay that way for long anyways! + the thoughts of a 39 man horde of skinks with poison and frenzy with WW on makes me really happy!

1 unit of swarms is also a more "balanced" way of testing a unit i am quite certain isn't going to cut it, but i'll probably use it as chaff, as i feel it is necessary in a skink themed list!


EDIT:

Sadly it'll be a while until the large list goes into effect :/ but maybe i can attempt some escalation league reports with the smaller lists! I'm starting out with 19 skinks, FC, the skink "lord" with SoST, PoStrength, ES, the BSB (with rat hating banner, just because it fits the theme so well and i am gonna need the reroll), a Swarm and a sallie!

I am a bit lucky in that there actually IS a skaven player in the tourney, but it's more a deterrent of me bringing the banner, because i am uncertain as to whether people will see it as hating, when mostly it's for fluff reasons!


On that note - What program do you use for your reports? I think it makes the reports semi-lively and easy to follow.

 

[GCPD]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

I have issues with all-Skink chaff Core from a pure aesthetics point of view: it just doesn't look or feel like an 'army' to me, and whilst no doubt super-effective I just won't get a kick out of it. Under the old book I would have had a Skink-Kroxigor block in there instead, and I've been sort of leaning towards that again - especially in a Light list without access to Wildform on Saurus.

You're running those Skinks in horde, right? 40 poisoned attacks is pretty good, especially where their WS is so low. I think you may run into problems with armour though.

I use a program called Battle Chronciler. You should be able to find it easily enough on google. The UI isn't the best, but the maps sure are pretty.

 

[VampTeddy]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

I have issues with all-Skink chaff Core from a pure aesthetics point of view: it just doesn't look or feel like an 'army' to me, and whilst no doubt super-effective I just won't get a kick out of it. Under the old book I would have had a Skink-Kroxigor block in there instead, and I've been sort of leaning towards that again - especially in a Light list without access to Wildform on Saurus.

You're running those Skinks in horde, right? 40 poisoned attacks is pretty good, especially where their WS is so low. I think you may run into problems with armour though.

I use a program called Battle Chronciler. You should be able to find it easily enough on google. The UI isn't the best, but the maps sure are pretty.

That's why i like Cohorts, ranked up in large blocks i feel it starts to look like an army, i have issues with skirmisher core, both for aesthetics (no ranks = no army), and for nastiness factor (i would hate to play against it).

I can see why skinks would feel not army less, tho' i'd think TG would be enough to solve it for you! but then again, it's a completely subjective question anywhoes, and probably goes back to warhammer experiences and the likes as well!

I am also 100% certain i'll suffer under armor, and originally intended the list to use a block of 6-8 kroxigor, i don't know what it is with skrox, i really like them on paper even with their obvious errors. But it feels somewhat wrong to me, when they're joined together anyways. So they never make it properly into my mental image, and hence, into the list, and further into battle! that, copupled with the fact i ended up filling out with stegadons, and a bastiladon owed to the lack of hits thourgh armor stuff.

I am desperately hoping, wyssans for str 4 skinks and str 5 Chiefs, the egg, and the stegs will be enough, but i am quite certain WoC (we have a nasty WoC player, 30 Warriors, 1 chimera, Nurgle or tzeentch DP with all of the cream, 5 chaos knights, chariots, and a tzeentch shrine, and cannot see his stuff is OP (or maybe he does, as he dropped 2 armies merely because they didn't make him win)), luckily he's a friendly guy! but i expect him to give me a good trashing, probably, the brets will trash me as well.

Again, my list is very much a themed list, and i feel i can answer most armor but 1+, so i guess i'll try to chaff those units up

I am very theoretically into LM, what to do and how to do it, but i'm still very much learning, as i play far too rarely

And just to answer your question, yes, i will run them horde, except against the warriors, there i will likely do the bus, and try to weaken them by power of my 2 toasters (sallies), str 4 templates "should" deal with regular warriors.

 

[NexS1]

Re: GCPD's Lizardmen Lists

Woah, so much action since i've been here last!

re:

Slann Mage-Priest: Harmonic Convergence; Channelling Staff; Lore of Light; Battle Standard Bearer
Slann Mage-Priest: Reservoir of Eldritch Energy; Dispel Scroll
Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Arabyan Carpet; great weapon; shield
Saurus Oldblood: The Piranha Blade; Potion of Strength; Enchanted Shield; Luckstone; light armour

18 Saurus Warriors: Spawn Leader; musician; standard bearer
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields
10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer
12 Skinks: musician; standard bearer

28 Temple Guard: Revered Guardian; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard)
3 Ripperdactyl Riders

2,391 points

While i feel it's interesting to have a double slann, I have to ask why (if you've covered it with vamp, i apologise!)? The cost of 1 slann could fit numerous skink priests.

Also, my experience with Saurus Warriors is that if you take less than 25 then it should be 20 and ONLY because you're expecting a "Watchtower" scenario, and you're hoping for the building. Because that is the only time that they are awesome. Especially without the wyssans wildform to make them all scar vets

I approve of the giant f*&@off unit of temple guard, it makes me happy