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AoS Fixing Serephon

Lizerd said:
Oh we still need army points, I can get around to that or would you prefer to do them?
Click to expand...
i got it should be done tonight im working on it now but today is game day i need your altered warscrolls to properly judge the saurus thou
 
Kk here we are, not to much altered
Saurus Oldblood on carnosaur


move*

bravery 10

wounds 12

save 4+


sunbolt gauntlet 4 18" 4/3/-1/1

Sunstone spear 3 2" 3/3/-2/d3

clawed forelimbs * 2" 3/3/-1/2

carnosaur’s bite * 2" 4+/3/-2/3


Damage table

wounds

0-3 4-5 6-7 8-9 10+
move
12” 12” 10” 8” 6”
claws
4 4 3 3 2
jaws
5 4 4 3 2

abilities

pinned down: 2 claw hits, +2 to jaw hits

blood frenzy: this model can run and charge in the same turn

Hand of the Gods: on a 6+ to hit the attack instead inflicts a mortal wound.

Blessed by the old ones: when this model takes a wound or mortal wound roll a die. On a 6+ that wound is ignored.

Blood roar:roll a die when an opponent makes a battle shock roll on a 2+a model is removed from that unit. On a 3-5 2 models are removed. On a 6+ d3 models run.



command ability

Ancient Warlord: A Saurus Oldblood is a veteran of battles without number – an experienced leader who is as inspirational to its kin as it is terrifying to the enemy. If the Saurus Oldblood uses this ability, then until your next hero phase, whenever a Saurus Hero from your army within 20" attacks in the combat phase, pick one of its weapons and add 2 to its Attacks characteristic until the end of the phase.


keywords ORDER, DAEMON, CELESTIAL, SERAPHON, CARNOSAUR, SAURUS, MONSTER, HERO, SAURUS OLDBLOOD



Saurus Scar-Veteran on carnosaur


move*

bravery 10

wounds 12

save 4+


Warblade. 6 1”. 3+/3+/-1/1

War Spear. 6. 2” 4+/3+/-1/1

Great Blade 3. 1” 4+/4+/-1/d3

clawed forelimbs * 2" 3+/3+/-1/2

carnosaur’s bite * 2"4+/3+/-2/3


Damage table

wounds

0-3

4-5

6-7

8-9

10+

move
12” 12” 10” 8” 6”
claws
4 4 3 3 2
jaws
5 4 4 3 2


abilities

pinned down: 2 claw hits, +2 jaw hits

blood frenzy: this model can run and charge in the same turn

Blood roar:roll a die when an opponent makes a battle shock roll on a 2+a model is removed from that unit. On a 4-3 2 models are removed. On a 6+ d3 models run.

Aeon Shield: when this model takes a wound or mortal wound, roll a die. On a 5+ that wound is ignored


The Scar-Veteran loses an ear-splitting roar that drives nearby saurus into a frenzy. If the Saurus ScarVeteran on Carnosaur uses this ability, pick a Saurus unit within 15". Until your next hero phase, whenever you roll a hit roll of 6 or more for a model in that unit, that model can immediately make one additional attack using the same weapon.


keywords ORDER, DAEMON, CELESTIAL, SERAPHON, CARNOSAUR, SAURUS, MONSTER, HERO, SAURUS SCAR-VETERAN




Saurus warriors

100/360

move 5"

bravery 10

wounds 1

save 4+


club 2 1" 4/3/-1/1

spear 2 2" 4/4/-1/1

Jaws and shield 1 1" 4/4/-/1


Alpha The leader of this unit is the Alpha Talon. An Alpha Talon makes 3 attacks rather than 2 with its Celestite weapon.

icon this unit can pile in 4" instead of 3"

shield: when this unit takes a wound or mortal wound, roll a die. On a 6+ that wound is ignored.

WARDRUM Models in this unit may carry wardrums. A unit that includes any war drums can march in its movement phase. When it does so, it doubles its Move characteristic but cannot run or charge in the same turn.


keywords ORDER, DAEMON, CELESTIAL, SERAPHON, SAURUS, SAURUS WARRIORS
 
Lizerd said:
Kk here we are, not to much altered
Saurus Oldblood on carnosaur


move*

bravery 10

wounds 12

save 4+


sunbolt gauntlet 4 18" 4/3/-1/1

Sunstone spear 3 2" 3/3/-2/d3

clawed forelimbs * 2" 3/3/-1/2

carnosaur’s bite * 2" 4+/3/-2/3


Damage table

wounds

0-3 4-5 6-7 8-9 10+
move
12” 12” 10” 8” 6”
claws
4 4 3 3 2
jaws
5 4 4 3 2

abilities

pinned down: 2 claw hits, +2 to jaw hits

blood frenzy: this model can run and charge in the same turn

Hand of the Gods: on a 6+ to hit the attack instead inflicts a mortal wound.

Blessed by the old ones: when this model takes a wound or mortal wound roll a die. On a 6+ that wound is ignored.

Blood roar:roll a die when an opponent makes a battle shock roll on a 2+a model is removed from that unit. On a 3-5 2 models are removed. On a 6+ d3 models run.



command ability

Ancient Warlord: A Saurus Oldblood is a veteran of battles without number – an experienced leader who is as inspirational to its kin as it is terrifying to the enemy. If the Saurus Oldblood uses this ability, then until your next hero phase, whenever a Saurus Hero from your army within 20" attacks in the combat phase, pick one of its weapons and add 2 to its Attacks characteristic until the end of the phase.


keywords ORDER, DAEMON, CELESTIAL, SERAPHON, CARNOSAUR, SAURUS, MONSTER, HERO, SAURUS OLDBLOOD



Saurus Scar-Veteran on carnosaur


move*

bravery 10

wounds 12

save 4+


Warblade. 6 1”. 3+/3+/-1/1

War Spear. 6. 2” 4+/3+/-1/1

Great Blade 3. 1” 4+/4+/-1/d3

clawed forelimbs * 2" 3+/3+/-1/2

carnosaur’s bite * 2"4+/3+/-2/3


Damage table

wounds

0-3

4-5

6-7

8-9

10+

move
12” 12” 10” 8” 6”
claws
4 4 3 3 2
jaws
5 4 4 3 2


abilities

pinned down: 2 claw hits, +2 jaw hits

blood frenzy: this model can run and charge in the same turn

Blood roar:roll a die when an opponent makes a battle shock roll on a 2+a model is removed from that unit. On a 4-3 2 models are removed. On a 6+ d3 models run.

Aeon Shield: when this model takes a wound or mortal wound, roll a die. On a 5+ that wound is ignored


The Scar-Veteran loses an ear-splitting roar that drives nearby saurus into a frenzy. If the Saurus ScarVeteran on Carnosaur uses this ability, pick a Saurus unit within 15". Until your next hero phase, whenever you roll a hit roll of 6 or more for a model in that unit, that model can immediately make one additional attack using the same weapon.


keywords ORDER, DAEMON, CELESTIAL, SERAPHON, CARNOSAUR, SAURUS, MONSTER, HERO, SAURUS SCAR-VETERAN




Saurus warriors

100/360

move 5"

bravery 10

wounds 1

save 4+


club 2 1" 4/3/-1/1

spear 2 2" 4/4/-1/1

Jaws and shield 1 1" 4/4/-/1


Alpha The leader of this unit is the Alpha Talon. An Alpha Talon makes 3 attacks rather than 2 with its Celestite weapon.

icon this unit can pile in 4" instead of 3"

shield: when this unit takes a wound or mortal wound, roll a die. On a 6+ that wound is ignored.

WARDRUM Models in this unit may carry wardrums. A unit that includes any war drums can march in its movement phase. When it does so, it doubles its Move characteristic but cannot run or charge in the same turn.


keywords ORDER, DAEMON, CELESTIAL, SERAPHON, SAURUS, SAURUS WARRIORS
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a few things Blood roar:roll a die when an opponent makes a battle shock roll on a 2+a model is removed from that unit. On a 3-5 2 models are
removed. On a 6+ d3 models run.
should be changed to 2-4 1 modle runs 5+ D3 this is his best ability by a long shot and we need to be carfull it wount help against hords but you just need to kill 1 heavy unit to take out 2-4 that is very strong any hoo the points for these guys should be
carnosaurs 280-300 they are a lot more killy don't profile as badly and can take quite a punch
and warriors should be 120 limited to 30 man max and have a horde cost of 320 with 2 rend -1 attacks and overall buffs these guys are solid good units comparable to thralls and witch elves but harder to kill
ill get the rest later thanks for your help with formatting
 
Sounds good, stuff with carnosaur got changed, and all values have been written down. Thanks for the stuff :)
 
Again, don't make both the jaws & claws decay in number of attacks. It'l create far too large a difference between a healthy and unhealthy carnosaur to be able to balance that. Make at least one of them work with say a decaying hit-value or wound-value (or both, or rend or...)

Also, you should make an excell or some other more readable format. Forum posts are getting rather cluttered with so much info in them :P
 
Canas said:
Again, don't make both the jaws & claws decay in number of attacks. It'l create far too large a difference between a healthy and unhealthy carnosaur to be able to balance that. Make at least one of them work with say a decaying hit-value or wound-value (or both, or rend or...)

Also, you should make an excell or some other more readable format. Forum posts are getting rather cluttered with so much info in them :p
Click to expand...
lizard is working on a Google doc
 
Canas said:
Again, don't make both the jaws & claws decay in number of attacks. It'l create far too large a difference between a healthy and unhealthy carnosaur to be able to balance that. Make at least one of them work with say a decaying hit-value or wound-value (or both, or rend or...)

Also, you should make an excell or some other more readable format. Forum posts are getting rather cluttered with so much info in them :p
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also ther diference between 4 and 2 attacks is the same as the diference between a 3+ to hit or wound and a 5+ 50% i could shift it to damage but thats an even greater divide at 66%. the only way to make the drop off less is to give him less attacks over all witch is just a strait down grade
 
Erta Wanderer said:
also ther diference between 4 and 2 attacks is the same as the diference between a 3+ to hit or wound and a 5+ 50% i could shift it to damage but thats an even greater divide at 66%. the only way to make the drop off less is to give him less attacks over all witch is just a strait down grade
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The average performance might not be (much) weaker, but by removing attacks you remove the maximum potential, and since you have fewer attacks you'l get a less smooth distribution curve. It makes him very spikey once wounded and unreliable.

Alternativly, stick more power in the saurus riding it (or another attack) that doesn't decay to keep the difference between a healthy and wounded carno smal.
 
Canas said:
The average performance might not be (much) weaker, but by removing attacks you remove the maximum potential, and since you have fewer attacks you'l get a less smooth distribution curve. It makes him very spikey once wounded and unreliable.

Alternativly, stick more power in the saurus riding it (or another attack) that doesn't decay to keep the difference between a healthy and wounded carno smal.
Click to expand...
but he already has better damage at low health then he used to by a lot like 2 times better and he profiles better then most big monsters better then derthu better then gryphons better then arkion gargants our stegadons stone horns ghorgons cygors. the only ones i found that don't are magmadroths and terrorgysts
 
Erta Wanderer said:
but he already has better damage at low health then he used to by a lot like 2 times better and he profiles better then most big monsters better then derthu better then gryphons better then arkion gargants our stegadons stone horns ghorgons cygors. the only ones i found that don't are magmadroths and terrorgysts
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That's not important (or at least not for the point I'm trying to make :P). What's important is that there's a massive difference between a healthy and wounded carnosaur. This will make balancing him a pain because you'l have to make a choice. Do we assume he's usually going to get into combat at full health or is he going to spend more time badly wounded. Depending on which one you balance around the other situation will be broken due to the large differences, which creates a significant issue for example when facing an opponent that can easily wound him when his point costs assume he gets into combat at full health. Similarly, if his pointcosts assume he doesn't get into combat without being shot at and losing a couple of wounds he'l end up far too strong when facing an enemy that lacks ranged attacks who now has to deal with a full health carnosaur.

Hence, keep the difference between healthy and wounded relativly small. Especially losing number of attacks should be osmehting your carefull with.
 
Canas said:
That's not important (or at least not for the point I'm trying to make :p). What's important is that there's a massive difference between a healthy and wounded carnosaur. This will make balancing him a pain because you'l have to make a choice. Do we assume he's usually going to get into combat at full health or is he going to spend more time badly wounded. Depending on which one you balance around the other situation will be broken due to the large differences, which creates a significant issue for example when facing an opponent that can easily wound him when his point costs assume he gets into combat at full health. Similarly, if his pointcosts assume he doesn't get into combat without being shot at and losing a couple of wounds he'l end up far too strong when facing an enemy that lacks ranged attacks who now has to deal with a full health carnosaur.

Hence, keep the difference between healthy and wounded relativly small. Especially losing number of attacks should be osmehting your carefull with.
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wait i don't understand why isn't it important? your concern is there is to much of a difference between full and min health damage and when i say that there is less of a difference then most it doesn't matter? that in and of itself means your worries are baseless and that this guy is good as is.
 
Last edited:
So damage degradation, I could edit it a little, but now the carnosaur takes damage significantly better than it use to. It actually takes damage better than magamadroths do and has much more killing power, so it’s in a good spot.
 
Lizerd said:
So damage degradation, I could edit it a little, but now the carnosaur takes damage significantly better than it use to. It actually takes damage better than magamadroths do and has much more killing power, so it’s in a good spot.
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the concern we are trying to get to the heart of is price balancing between max and min health if the difference is to big it makes is difficult but as you sead it's hard to hurt this vertion of the carno and he ends up still doing good damage when hurt
 
Erta Wanderer said:
wait i don't understand why isn't it important? your concern is there is to much of a difference between full and min health damage and when i say that there is less of a difference then most it doesn't matter? that in and of itself means your worries are baseless and that this guy is good as is.
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I meant that it doesn't matter that it's better than unit X. If unit X has a bigger gap than that should (imho) be fixed as well cuz that too would be a pain to balance.
 
Canas said:
I meant that it doesn't matter that it's better than unit X. If unit X has a bigger gap than that should (imho) be fixed as well cuz that too would be a pain to balance.
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but its almost all of them most behemoths see a 2/3ds reduction in there 2 primary attacks most being a drop in attacks and a drop to hits(with the exeption of khorn and a few destruction units that get stronger). this one has a 1/2 drop in its primery attacks so it should be easier yo balance then 80% of behemoths.
 
There's plenty of examples where they don't lose any attack characteristics and just lose to wound or hit values.

Anyways, I just don't like having the attack characteristic degrade.
 
Canas said:
There's plenty of examples where they don't lose any attack characteristics and just lose to wound or hit values.

Anyways, I just don't like having the attack characteristic degrade.
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well the bight was already like that it's a 4+ to hit so you cant mes with that without making him usless and with a already low to hit you really don't want low to wound as well so i kept it as is. with the claw i didn't want to hit its to hit because we reliy apon it to make the bight worth it so i just buffed its attacks and took it down to baseline with damage im hesitant to make it drop the to wounds becouse the claw bight combo is so strong i don't think it should stay as powerful at low health
 
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