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9th Age Discussion of OpenHammer (ETC) and Ninth Age (Swedish Comp)

Phatmotha-phucka said:
I'd like to, Taco!
I am also unemployed at the time, but cant say my days arent filled with projects :D
Trying to get my company up and running meanwhile I am trying to get a job and teach myself 3D :p

I might not be the best guys for the subject, even though Mig Eng-lis ish veuvy gut.
Click to expand...

Great =] we'll see in one weeks time how much effort is needed. They're making up an entire new BRB so we'll see how many pages it'll be.
 
List as of proposed changes from Lustria Online, September 5th 2015.

I made a bunch of minor changes and added a kroxigor hero with some synergy with kroxigor and skroxigor units. Have a look and comment.

RED = newly added


Completely remove PF and Add sacred spawnings to all saurus models

Magic Items
Horn of Kygor change to: allow one unit of Cold One Riders to be used in core.
Reduce the cost of the Jaguar Standard to 25pts.
Skavenpelt banner at 50pts
Make it clear that the Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza and Piranha Blade dont stack.
No saves of any kind can be used against wounds caused by the Blade of Reality, 80pts.
Plaque of Dominion add: and enemy wizard lose D3 casting/dispelling value until the casters next turn.

Characters:
Slann Mage Priests
Raise cost of Becalming Cognition by 5 points
Reduce Cost of Transcendent Healing by 5 points

Saurus Oldblood/Saurus Scar Veteran
(Add the price increase on mounts already in the Alpha)

Skink Chief
Add
Beast Kinship: A Skink Chief mounted on a Terradon/Ripperdactyl may join another unit of Terradon/Ripperdactyl. Mounted Skink Chiefs may not join any other unit.

Skink Priest
Unchanged

Add
Kroxigor Champion 115pts
M6 / WS4 / BS0 / S5 / T5 / I3 / A4 / W3 / Ld8

Scaly Skin 4+
Weapon: Great Weapon.
May change GW to Halbard at no additional cost.
May take magic items worth 25pts.
Special Rule: Kroxigors in the same unit as the Champion gain his Weapon Skill.

Core
Saurus Warriors
one unit of Saurus Warriors per army may take a magic standard worth up to 25 points).
Add +1 initative

Skink Cohort
Allow Kroxigor Champion (hero) to join just like a regular kroxigor

Skink Skirmishers
+1pts.
Remove Blowpipe upgrade.

Cameleon Skinks moved to core.
Reduced to 10pts/model.
Scout is an upgrade at 2pts/model.

Jungle Swarms
Reduce cost by 5 points per model
Moved to core.

Special
Temple Guard
Base price: 13pts.
Come with hand weapon and shield.
May upgrade to Halbard at 1pts/model.

Cold One Riders
Reduce costs of Spear upgrade by 2 points per model
May take a magic banner worth up to 50 points

Kroxigor
Add Standard and Musician options
Add +1 initative
Allow kroxigors to change their Great Weapon to Halbards at no additional cost
May take magic banner worth 25pts

Terradon Riders
Make optional swap to Fireleech bolas free

Ripperdactyls
Add +1 initiative to the mount

(Baby) Stegadon
Price decrease 20-30pts
Add +1A to the stegadon

Bastiladon
Add "They're everywhere!" Special Rule to Ark of Sotek (any friendly unit including the bastiladon and the riders engaging same unit as the bastiladon gains poisoned melee attacks)
Add a note about how the initative buff is cumulative.

Rare
Ancient Stegadon
Reduce price of the engine of the gods 10-20pts
Add +1A

Salamander Hunting Pack
Unchanged

Razordon
Add armour piercing
Increase cost (5-10pts)

Troglodon
Reduce cost by 40 points

Special/named Characters
Mazdamundi
Raise Leadership score to 10

Add to rules
Greatest living caster: Mazdamundi is treated as a 5th level caster

Lord Kroak
Add 10 points to the base cost

Kroq-Gar
Reduce base cost by 30 points
Allow for Cold One Riders to be core or just a single unit.

Chakax
Reduce base cost by 15 points

Gor-rok
Unchanged

Tettoeko
Raise Ld by one point
Raise base cost by 30-40 points

Tiktakto
Reduce base cost by 15 points
Change name to something less stupid. Teploq means death from the skies and sounds close enough to the original name
Allow Tiktakto to join units Terradons and possibly Ripperdactyls. He have a special rule that grants his weapon skill (4) to the unit he join - which he currently can't.

Oxyotl
Add Hates Daemons
 
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Comments to the above:

Overall goal is to not increase our power level, but make more units and items viable. Just to be clear the skavenpelt banner is merely a suggestion and likely too "good". We'll discuss that if people care. I also added more units to core without messing anything up (I hope).

Sacred Spawnings isn't something I want to go about alone. People have many opinions and thoughts about how they should be done. Predatory Fighter is bloat and we can do without.

Items:
Blades of Reality might be a bit too cheap, but at least now it allow for just a few magic items.
Jaguar Banner allow saurus warrior to more easily reach their target. This will in return allow the unit to be more versatile since they're rather slow.
Horne of Kygor is currently super useless and allowing CoRs to be core creates more diversity and give the item a purpose.
Plaque of Dominion is still a bound spell albeit it's now more useful and yet random.

Characters
Adding a Kroxigor is solely a suggestion from me although people have previously talked about adding the old named character (Nakaik?).
The kroxigor champion is more expensive than a regular scar veteran, but is still powerful. At 3 wounds and S6 from the get go he can hide in a unit of kroxigors or cohort skinks and still dish out. WS4 on kroxigors won't be too much and it'll mean that many units now have that -1 To Hit (if WS4 or less) that we've wanted for so long (in skrox units). I think it's a fair suggestion and a reasonable addition to our skink/saurus Hero selection.

Core
Cameleon skinks aren't the most used unit compared to Terradons. We also have the issue with regular blowpipes not really filling a good spot, so I figured "why not remove blowpipes (bloat) and add cameleon"?. They're much more expensive than javelins, but also bring much more to the table than what blowpipes used to do. Mean while we gain another unit entry to our core without really creating the same old skink cloud.

Combined with swarms, cameleons, CoRs and the new Kroxigors Champion the core selection is now much more varied and fun to use.

Also GTFO with I1 on saurus warriors. That's absurd and not because of Do or Die initative spells, but because it's just insane. They already suffer from WS3 and I2 is still very low.

Special
Adding Halbard I2 and magic banner to kroxigors will allow them to be fielded against a much wieder amount of units. At this point they can gain M7 or flaming attacks and either better do their job as flankers or monster hunters. I think it's very reasonable. One can still field them with GWs for that S7 insanity. Their absolute biggest issue currently isn't S7, but rather that it's only good against a small amount of units. So the objective here was to allow them to more easily hunt for more units and I think that's done without adding anything ridiculous or making them overpowered. They now compare better with minotaurs.

Considering I2 on both kroxigors and saurus warriors the solardon initative buff is now much more efficient. Currentyl it's mainly there to buff templeguards or cold one riders, but now it can actually hit 2 more units.
On top of that I think the Ark of Sotek got a major usability since it now also buffs nearby units. I personally found the lack of buff to other (proper) units to be a severe issue. Adding the "they're everywhere" special rule is fluffy, fits with the model's look and allow for more diversity. I think it's perfect, but I could be wrong. It's also a simple rule.

I4 on ripperdactyl is much needed and isn't a big buff to the unit.

Allowing templeguards to either be the hard hitting unit they already are OR be a T4 AS3+ with 5+ parry save unit is one way to make them interesting. One can still give them an armour piercing banner for S4 AP and they'll be very hard to shift. I think it's suitable and doesn't really change them. Sword arms from saurus warriors can be bought and easily fit on a templeguard so that's a complete non-issue.

Adding +1A to both stegadons is great and yet not much. Currently 3A on the ancient stegadons is ridiculous. 5A on the baby steg also makes it a decent combat unit albeit not super good at WS3/S5.
 
I still think that Skavenpelt should be 50points so it could be taken on templeguard on the solo.
 
Pinktaco said:
I made a bunch of minor changes and added a kroxigor hero with some synergy with kroxigor and skroxigor units. Have a look and comment.
Click to expand...

These are suggestions?

Pinktaco said:
Sacred Spawnings isn't something I want to go about alone. People have many opinions and thoughts about how they should be done. Predatory Fighter is bloat and we can do without.
Click to expand...

I don't think we should thrash predatory fighter, but maybe it could be a sacred spawning instead, Sotek's for example.
 
So I basically wrote my thoughts of how our army should be laid out, if this comes to a complete overhaul over at http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=130111&start=210

I don't think that is the case, though, I reckon it might be more of a mod to a video game.

Anyway, I proposed that it could be great, if we saw a more use for most of our great dino models. Most of which has already been proposed by others, and they are doing stuff, as well. The Carnosaur is better, due to saves, and perhaps we will see price cut of both troglo-stega-and bastilodon. I don't know if this is enough, there might be further improvements needed.
But isn't this a really massive part of our army and do you guys feel like we have a (Slightly) underused potential, here?
 
ASSASSIN_NR_1 it's a list from LO, revised after comments on the Warhammer board. The red color are suggestions I added myself and can always be removed if people don't like them, however, I would like people to comment on them. Some of it is based on what people have suggested and some of it is just me. Stuff like more core - especially CoRs - is what people have been suggesting recently. Previously I've seen some talk about the Ripperdactyl in terms of initative.

I like the PF as a sacred spawn idea so I'll keep that in mind ^^

@skink chief I'm not entirely sure why you're saying this is spam. The list have been posted on the WH board twice and now I want to continue the discussion with my fellow LO members. I'm not in the mood to post the list on right now since the board isn't that receptive to suggestions before after the release of the beta. What's so wrong about discussing suggestions?

When the time come to update our army book it would be great if we could lay out a list we all agreed upon (LO members) and which concern all our units. The old list didn't do that and this list isn't complete yet. Do you have any thoughts on the proposed? :)

@The Sauric Ace I absolutely agree! Wouldn't you say +1A on both stegadons and the proposed addition of special rule (which both fits in terms of the model, the fluff and is a rule that already exists) for the Bastiladon Snake Ark do that?

Since the chief is now able to use the bolt thrower on the baby steg that one will also see more utility. I also suggested a decent price cut to the Engine of the Gods since I feel it's waaaay to expensive as is.

When it's time to add new models for our army I'd highly suggest adding our Carnosaur as a Rare monster.

Is that what you had hoped for?

Do feel free to comment on the rest of the list.

@Phatmotha-phucka What about you Mr Phat - what do you think about the proposed changes to our list? Do you have any comments, suggestions or additions of your own? ^^
 
Just wanted to say that :). But if its listed twice it's ok. I just look at the beastmen book and though i have zero experience with them, the book looks pretty solid. So overall I think these guys will make a fine book for LM aswell. We can allways make our suggestions as a forum group of LM players aslong as we don't send every little thinkling true. And that last one was my fear. Carry on :)
 
Pinktaco said:
@The Sauric Ace I absolutely agree! Wouldn't you say +1A on both stegadons and the proposed addition of special rule (which both fits in terms of the model, the fluff and is a rule that already exists) for the Bastiladon Snake Ark do that?

Since the chief is now able to use the bolt thrower on the baby steg that one will also see more utility. I also suggested a decent price cut to the Engine of the Gods since I feel it's waaaay to expensive as is.

When it's time to add new models for our army I'd highly suggest adding our Carnosaur as a Rare monster.

Is that what you had hoped for?

Do feel free to comment on the rest of the list.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was thinking that your list did help a lot in many ways. These changes is going to be useful benefits to playing the massive creatures, something a like a carno rare choice would be most welcome :D

+1 is to me a given, if we are talking about granting extra bonus to the Stegs. They are just so useless once in combat has it is now, your basically better of just allowing them to shoot at the opponent with the giant blowpipe -.- which is no fun, I want my dinos to reck havoc!

For the bastilodon, I feel that they could be multiple of approaches. One is certainly to improve on the mechanic for the Ark and the Beam, but maybe even the beasts own statistics could be dealt with.
 
skink chief said:
Just wanted to say that :). But if its listed twice it's ok. I just look at the beastmen book and though i have zero experience with them, the book looks pretty solid. So overall I think these guys will make a fine book for LM aswell. We can allways make our suggestions as a forum group of LM players aslong as we don't send every little thinkling true. And that last one was my fear. Carry on :)
Click to expand...

They're soon putting up teams from each AB to balance the books. Members from the community. It would be great if LO already had done their homework and could present a draft of suggestions. :)

Just to be clear these suggestions aren't the be all end all suggestions. They're merely suggestions and if other people don't like them that's fair.
 
The Sauric Ace said:
Yes, I was thinking that your list did help a lot in many ways. These changes is going to be useful benefits to playing the massive creatures, something a like a carno rare choice would be most welcome :D

+1 is to me a given, if we are talking about granting extra bonus to the Stegs. They are just so useless once in combat has it is now, your basically better of just allowing them to shoot at the opponent with the giant blowpipe -.- which is no fun, I want my dinos to reck havoc!

For the bastilodon, I feel that they could be multiple of approaches. One is certainly to improve on the mechanic for the Ark and the Beam, but maybe even the beasts own statistics could be dealt with.
Click to expand...

S5 on the bastiladon would be one way to go about it. I'm fine with 3 attacks and if the baby steg gains 5 attacks there's a clear cut difference, but I want S5 so the stomp doesn't feel utterly useless.
 
S5 Bastilodon would be great :) The bonus for stomp makes more sense, then only a S4 anyhow.
I reckon that it was put that way, both to make it less of a CC beast, more supportive; also to indicate that it's really only using its herbivore bite in CC.
 
Yeah ,but with SA at WS3 it's already very weak in CC. :P
 
Yeah, but that wasn't supposed to be taken as an argument to keep S4, just why they might have done that, in the first place :p

I completely agree with you on the Dino aspect, that's for sure ;)
 
What about the proposed kroxigor character? <.<
 
Pinktaco said:
What about the proposed kroxigor character? <.<
Click to expand...

I think that compared to a Scar vet he is a pretty bad deal.
Giving Kroxigors +1 WS is good of course, but I am not sure that I would pay that much for that boost.
I would actually rather see him interfere with PF in some way.
Also: I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to take full magic item allowance.
 
I actually had him at S6 previously, but I figured it would be too much (S8 with GW or R7 with halbard)

How about S6 with 4 wounds and 50pts magic items?
 
S6 and W4 seems like the more natural assumption I would have about a kroxigor hero choice. Wether it's too good, I don't think so, of course just price it accordingly ;)
 
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