Tutorial Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen!

[Omar]

Re: Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen! Special Characters a

Great job with the review! Thank you for sharing it

I agree with your review for Chakax. I can't help feeling sad because he's one of my favorite models out there... Oh well, maybe he'll be better next edition.

 

[Chunk]

Re: Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen! Special Characters a

Just use him as a sweet-looking Scar-Vet with a great weapon, that's what I do

 

[Andrinor]

Re: Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen! Special Characters a

Sweet! Again, great job and thanks for all the work.

I did the Savage Beast of Horros on Gor-rok bit in my first game with the new book and he killed a Daemon Prince of Nurgle in a challenge in one round. One of those awesome game moments that only Warhammer can create. It was Glorious!!

 

[Caneghem]

Re: Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen! Special Characters a

I fixed a couple of the armour saves that I missed yesterday. Kroq-gar is 2+ and Chakax is 3+, thanks to those who pointed them out. I was kind of pushing through and trying to do them all in one day.

Sweet! Again, great job and thanks for all the work.

I did the Savage Beast of Horros on Gor-rok bit in my first game with the new book and he killed a Daemon Prince of Nurgle in a challenge in one round. One of those awesome game moments that only Warhammer can create. It was Glorious!!

Nice, that must have felt good! Those smug Daemon princes been flying around like they own Warhammer.

 

[Chunk]

Re: Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen! Special Characters a

Phil trampled a Daemon Prince the other day, impact hits did 2 wounds, and multiplied into 6.

Maybe we should open a new thread called "Daemon Prince abuse" to record all of these.

 

[rothgar13]

Re: Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen! Special Characters a

That's pretty encouraging data, to be honest with you. I know that's one of the things I was apprehensive about with new Lizardmen, and being able to deal with that guy is Step 1 in being able to beat WoC.

 

[cyberhawk94]

Re: Caneghem's Review of the Lizardmen! Special Characters a

awesome Lord Kroak list. Him, biggest unit of temple guard you can afford. (with Bastilodons, Chameleons etc as support) Maybe a Stegadon for Monster Hunting. Then fill out your heros section with like 4 Skink Priests, one with Cloak, One with Carpet etc. Just send one into their lines at a time, cast Itza through them as many times as you can. sure, they kill the 100 point priest. and in return, you probably did around 6D6 hits to every unit in the middle of their battle line. Repeat unit Priests are all dead, at that point you can continue doing so from Kroak himself

 

[Gor-rok]

Just wanted to give my infinite thanks for this review, Caneghem. I was pretty despondent about the new book for a while, but your analysis has revealed some promising things. Now if Army Builder would just post their update, I'd stop burning through so much paper and hurting my head doing math...

 

[Rango]

There should be an AB update out... I remember catching that in the discussions
Also taking the opportunity to thank Lord Caneghem
Positive outlook is important when the change happens, as old habits and our own expectations cloud the new reality
I also believe that the new book brings a lot of potential especially to the ancient generals that may have got used to fighting similar battles

 

[rychek]

Army Builder won't have a Warhammer Fantasy update until Saturday at the earliest. They have to wait at LEAST four weeks from the release of the book before releasing the updated army files. Otherwise GW Legal takes issue.

 

[Scalenex]

Army Builder won't have a Warhammer Fantasy update until Saturday at the earliest. They have to wait at LEAST four weeks from the release of the book before releasing the updated army files. Otherwise GW Legal takes issue.

I use Battlescribe. I found a Battlescribe file that has since been removed from the site for legal issues. I then edited the many little mistakes out of it so I have a pretty good Battlescribe file. If anyone wants it, please direct me to a place I can post it without incurring the wrath of Games Workshop.

 

[rychek]

I was looking for a completely up-to-date Battlescribe catalog, but was unable to find one with the special characters. I don't know about hosting locations, but if you could email me the file, I would appreciate it. Email is my forum id @ gmail dot com.

 

[Tlaxbitza]

Great work all around on the awesome review of our new book!
Have read it many of times since the start and gotten many of ideas for building units.
Hopefully will do great in playing in the near future against all our enemies of lesser races. lol

They is only on disagreement or disliking i have with the new rules:

Terradon Riders – 17.5ss
Stat Change: Down a point of leadership, like all skinks

Unit Size: 3+

Equipment:
Hand Weapon
Lustrian Javelin

Special Rules:
Cold-blooded
Drop Rocks – same as before, D3 per terradon, not while fleeing or charging
Fear
Flying Cavalry
Forest Strider
Scaly Skin (6+)

Options:
One Terradon Rider can become a Sky Leader for 5ss
Entire unit may take fireleech bolas for 0.5ss per model

Fireleech bola – Range 6” Strength 4 Flaming, Quick to Fire

So the good old Terradons have gained a point of armor, lost a leadership, and gone up in points. The leadership really hurts these guys, since they are a unit that usually finds itself far into the enemy backfield. It is now worth the enemy taking out one of these for the panic check, which is a lot harder to pass now. Drop rocks is still excellent, essentially a non-dispellable non-magic missile that takes out a chaff unit for free. The bolas are interesting, as regen units will suddenly become vulnerable to our regular shooting. Think of popping a flaming wound onto a big regen unit, then unleashing your poisoned fury with a blowpipe stegadon. A flaming attack in the shooting phase makes all of your other shooting more potent. These are now more resilient to bow-fire, with their 5+ armor save, but at the same time they are a more tempting target for bow-fire, due to their lowered leadership. They perform many of the same roles, though in my view they have taken a hit overall due to their leadership.

I like the Terradons and always will use them in most of my army lists, but the stats for the new weapon option Fireleech Bolas is a joke! Let me explain:
1. IMHO for 1, the range of 6" is hardly useless in most games I've ever played. I might see it being used, only after dropping rocks and have landed behind the enemy unit, turning to face them and still being within range of 6" to shoot at the them next turn? You will never ever get close enough to shoot a 6" weapon otherwise your be getting charged before you get within range. Javelins do far much better with a 12" range.
2. The stats for it should've been like that of a Sling weapon - Range: 18" Strength: 3 Multiple Shots (2) - (BRB p91).
I would rather seen those stats more than the other. Just think of the uses - Firing from a longer range and doing more hits, but of course with 1 less strength. Also, there is to consider -1 to multiple shot and -1 for moving and shooting if that all applies? Still a better option and more tactical uses in my opinion.
3. On the stats are they are, I do see where the Quick to Fire and Flaming is useful, but at 6" range??? It's hardly going to see any action if any at all? With only a 1 time shoot before you get lucky enough to charge? More likely to get charged before that, then live long enough afterward combat to do it again to another unit? Highly unlikely in my experience.
So, there it is, tell me if anyone else agrees or not? All options are welcome. Just my 2ss worth. lol

 

[Caneghem]

I like the Terradons and always will use them in most of my army lists, but the stats for the new weapon option Fireleech Bolas is a joke! Let me explain:
1. IMHO for 1, the range of 6" is hardly useless in most games I've ever played. I might see it being used, only after dropping rocks and have landed behind the enemy unit, turning to face them and still being within range of 6" to shoot at the them next turn? You will never ever get close enough to shoot a 6" weapon otherwise your be getting charged before you get within range. Javelins do far much better with a 12" range.
2. The stats for it should've been like that of a Sling weapon - Range: 18" Strength: 3 Multiple Shots (2) - (BRB p91).
I would rather seen those stats more than the other. Just think of the uses - Firing from a longer range and doing more hits, but of course with 1 less strength. Also, there is to consider -1 to multiple shot and -1 for moving and shooting if that all applies? Still a better option and more tactical uses in my opinion.
3. On the stats are they are, I do see where the Quick to Fire and Flaming is useful, but at 6" range??? It's hardly going to see any action if any at all? With only a 1 time shoot before you get lucky enough to charge? More likely to get charged before that, then live long enough afterward combat to do it again to another unit? Highly unlikely in my experience.
So, there it is, tell me if anyone else agrees or not? All options are welcome. Just my 2ss worth. lol

First, thanks for the positive feedback!

A 6 inch range thrown weapon would be fairly useless except for the fact that the Terradons can fly. This makes it effectively a 26" range thrown weapon. Essentially you want to be able to fly behind a monster/regen unit and land at close range, reform to face it, then launch the bola attacks. The idea is to hopefully get off one wound against a unit with regeneration, to drop its regen during the shooting phase. The other thing to consider is that it is a very cheap upgrade to open up the possibility of the unit doing something useful with its shooting, instead of having just a few more poison javelins in an army full of poison javelins already.

 

[GCPD]

1. IMHO for 1, the range of 6" is hardly useless in most games I've ever played. I might see it being used, only after dropping rocks and have landed behind the enemy unit, turning to face them and still being within range of 6" to shoot at the them next turn? You will never ever get close enough to shoot a 6" weapon otherwise your be getting charged before you get within range. Javelins do far much better with a 12" range.

Just because its 6" range doesn't mean that you have to stand in front, especially when you are on a flying platform that has the maneuverability to sit in the flank.

I quite like them. In those occasions when you have less than 5 points to spare, then why not? Three javelins is unlikely to achieve much, but there's a chance you get a flaming shot off on something flammable, so go for it.

 

[Tlaxbitza]

A 6 inch range thrown weapon would be fairly useless except for the fact that the Terradons can fly. This makes it effectively a 26" range thrown weapon. Essentially you want to be able to fly behind a monster/regen unit and land at close range, reform to face it, then launch the bola attacks. The idea is to hopefully get off one wound against a unit with regeneration, to drop its regen during the shooting phase. The other thing to consider is that it is a very cheap upgrade to open up the possibility of the unit doing something useful with its shooting, instead of having just a few more poison javelins in an army full of poison javelins already.

Just because its 6" range doesn't mean that you have to stand in front, especially when you are on a flying platform that has the maneuverability to sit in the flank.

I quite like them. In those occasions when you have less than 5 points to spare, then why not? Three javelins is unlikely to achieve much, but there's a chance you get a flaming shot off on something flammable, so go for it.

Your both right! Good and a valid points. I also, hadn't considered the Skirmishers: Free Reform & Fire on the March special rules enough in detail (pg77 BRB & Errata update). You both have given me some new ideas on tactics of how to move and then shoot and get the charge afterwards on an enemy unit. Cool! Will, have to buy the upgrades: Fireleech Bolas on my unit of Terradon Riders in my next game.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[vict0988]

I disagree with your harsh judgement of the skavenpelt banner. I play tested it on a scar-vet inside a unit of cold one riders, and oh boy did they kill a ton of vampire counts.

You basically add 50% more attacks to the unit, and with a troglodon...

5 cold one riders + 1 scar-vet against a unit of clan rats:

11 clanrat attacks = 5,5 hits = 2 wounds = 0,3 unsaved wounds

21 rider attacks (including scar vet) = 3 extra attacks = 16 hits = 13 wounds (with spears) = 11 unsaved wounds

18 cold one attacks = 9 hits = 6 wounds = 5 unsaved wounds

16 dead clan rats. Sure the number falls in the second turn, but still they chew through units pretty damn fast.

 

[Sleboda]

Thank you very much for the time and effort you've put into this. I'm sure I'll be coming back here often as I learn how to best use my army.

One thing though - The soloSlann still has to worry about stomps and thunderstomps. His special rule does not interact with the Stomp rules at all. There is nothing in the Stomp rules that says its target must be a 'model on foot.' The rules just specify that the target must be infantry, war beasts, or swarms. A Slann is infantry and can, therefor, be stomped just fine.


Now, what wouldn't surprise me is finding that this book was designed with the next edition in mind. Perhaps in that edition the rules for Stomp will change to say it works against 'models on foot' just like it might change the rules for Supporting Attacks to allow the full number of attacks (and thus removing the PF angst some have shown). At present, though, that's not the case.

EDIT: Sorry! Not trying to be a nit-picker, honest, but since this is a tactics article, I think it's worth pointing out rules issues. You have this:

If he joins a unit of 3 terradons you're looking at a 275 point unit.

under Tiktaq'to.

He can't join terradons.


ANOTHER EDIT: Doh! One more for ya'.

1. Apotheosis
...The model healed also gains the Fear special rule until the start of the caster's next magic phase, regarless of power level.

=> Actually, that's not accurate. The Fear part is not associated with the base casting level, only the boosted. If the Fear statement had been a new paragraph, or if it had been worded the way you said ("regardless of power level" instead of "regardless of how many lost Wounds (if any) are recovered" then we'd be getting the Fear. As it stands, it's like other spells with multi-levels. Each level tells you what it does. Regular = fix a wound. Boosted = fix D3 wounds and get Fear.