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8th Ed. "Battlescrolls" release all through December.

What a scam. For 10% of the cost of a full electronic codex/army-book, you get info for 1 unit/model and a bunch of fluff.

GW sucks. Effing money-grubbing Btards! This looks like one more straw that will soon break the camels back. Two people in my LGG have refused to buy the latest codex for their 40k stuff and declared they are switching to warmachine/hordes for their focus. At least I play that too.
 
Khornefed said:
What a scam. For 10% of the cost of a full electronic codex/army-book, you get info for 1 unit/model and a bunch of fluff.

GW sucks. Effing money-grubbing Btards! This looks like one more straw that will soon break the camels back. Two people in my LGG have refused to buy the latest codex for their 40k stuff and declared they are switching to warmachine/hordes for their focus. At least I play that too.
Click to expand...

Chill man. It's so little that it's hardly even worth getting upset over and from what I can understand this stuff used to be in White Dwarf magazines so at least now you can just pick what you want and be done with it.

Besides the formations are much more than just one character.

3
 
I bought it, I can manage 3.5 euro even as a student so no biggie. I'm going to the gym soon so I wont be home for a couple of hours, so if you want to know anything let me know, otherwise this is what is says about the actual formation:

BATTLESCROLLS
Battlescrolls allow you to add unique battlefield formations to your games of
Warhammer. Each Battlescroll lists the units that make up the formation, and the special
rules that apply to them in order to represent the fighting qualities that they possess. The
following rules describe how you can use Battlescrolls in your games of Warhammer.

BATTLESCROLL FORMATIONS
When you choose an army, you can take one or more Battlescroll formations as part of
your army. The Battlescroll will tell you what units you need to take in order to field the
formation, and what, if any, extra options or restrictions apply to the units that make it
up. The army list entries for each unit in the formation (the units’ profiles, points values,
unit size, options, special rules, battlefield role etc.) can be found in the army book for the
unit in question.

FORMATION SPECIAL RULES
Each formation includes one or more special rules associated with the units that make up
that formation. The special rules for a formation only apply to the units that make it up
(even if there are other units of the same type in your army).

ALLIED FORMATIONS
Formations do not have to be chosen from the same army book as the rest of your army.
If you decide to do this, then formations made up of units from different army books
follow the rules for Allied Armies on pages 136-139 of the Warhammer rulebook.

FORMATION POINTS VALUES
Formations do not usually include a points value; just add up the points value of the
individual units and options to find out the total points value of the formation.
Occasionally a formation will require that you pay extra points in order to use it. In this
case, the cost of the formation is the total cost of the units plus any extra points the
Battlescroll specifies you have to pay.

The points value of the units in the formation count against the total points allowed for
your army, but are not included when working out the percentage of points spent on
different categories of unit. For example, a formation with 500 points worth of models
would count as 500 points towards the total number of points allowed for your army, but
would not count towards the number of points spent on lords, heroes, core units, special
units or rare units in your army.

If you wish, you can field an army made up exclusively of formations chosen from
Battlescrolls. If you choose to do this, then you do not have to spend 25% of the points for
your army on core units, and you do not have to select a model as the General if the
formations that you use do not include any character models.


I DO NOT WANT TO COPY/PASTE ENTIRE RULES WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HOW TO ACTUALLY FIELD THE FORMATIONS.

These are just common rules about how to field this/any formations because ultimately IMO anyone should be allowed to know how this works so they can figure out whether or not it's worth it for them. However, I don't think it's fair to just copy/paste the entire thing including the lore. As I said though, I'll obviously answer any questions should there be any.

**EDIT**

This can be bought and downloaded on the PC followed by converting it to PDF so anyone can buy it. It's not something only for Ipad users or what some people might think, so everyone who's interested should be able to get it..
 
Pinktaco said:
Chill man. It's so little that it's hardly even worth getting upset over and from what I can understand this stuff used to be in White Dwarf magazines so at least now you can just pick what you want and be done with it. 3
Click to expand...

Except now you have to have an electronic device to see/use it. White dwarf stuff at tourney's had to be specifically allowed. Look, its not me I'm concerned about. Its that the number of people fleeing this game system has been pretty steady for the last few years. Mostly due to the ever changing, ever more expensive, string of poorly written rules and army books/codices. I already own an iPad, but it will be totally useless for GW games if I have no opponents.

If I were GW, Id make these Codex/AB add-ons FREE to the original purchasers of each army book/rule-set. I already have to buy other factions just to keep track of my opponents capabilities, now I have to look for scrolls and dataslates too?

BTW, My name aint Khornefed for nothing. RAGE!!!! :droid:
 
RipperDerek said:
Phatmotha-phucka said:
a "Sacred Spawnings" rule supplement.
Click to expand...

Oh gods yes.

/Don't get my hopes up like that!
Click to expand...

=> Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

:)


Rage aside, Khornefed is right. It's going to really create confusion for pick up games. It's one thing to keep track of the main rules, your armybook, and the rules in other army books. To have to wonder about that strange new formation that your friend is bringing (or 2 or 3) and question its veracity, is a headache. Not to mention, you now have the possibility of two identical units in an army having different rules. "Oh, yeah, THAT was the unit from the formation, not that OTHER one...I forgot." Ugh.

Plus, with the ability to make armies entirely from battlescrolls, I'd wager you'll see all sorts of rules interaction problems and even some possible intentional shenanigans from some players.

This is a nightmare.
 
Sleboda said:
This is a nightmare.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that I for once is the positive one! :D

I see your doubts and I see it more than properly justified, but I am willing to give it a chance as I actually find this very refreshing.

I love the idea of having some extra customizing options, and if you dont like it: fair enough, just dont and make sure your opponents dont either. As this is what I call an "expansion", I take it that you always have to agree if you can use it or not.

I imagine that instead of saying "do we allow special characters?" you know have ask "do we allow special characters or battlescrolls?"

I just know that when those Sacred spawning formations hit the deck im gonna buy em....glue em into my army book, cleverly disguise them as original content and then take em for a spin with a awkward grin on my face...
 
A few things -

1) It's not an expansion, as far as I can tell. It's Warhammer. These are not "permission only." Of course you can agree to disallow them, but for the same reason you can agree to disallow the use of all template weapons in your games (for example). Players are always free to suggest rules changes, but as far as I can tell, these things are 100% legit.

2) How does a customer even know what these are, how to use them, or what each one contains (in terms of rules) before buying them? These are not books you can review prior to purchase. You have to just hope that a particular $4.00 purchase can be used in your army at all! It's madness.
 
My biggest issue is how these formations doesn't count toward the individual categories in terms of points. It sounds messy, but we'll see how it plays out.

Personally I'm still excited and I'll take the Wait and See approach. Maybe we'll have all the various formations come along with the 9th edition starter set as a book (which can then be bought seperately)?

Also if you're playing vs strangers just agree on what is allowed before playing, I'm sure most can agree on that.

Dogs of War have been allowed before, how is this that much different?
 
Pinktaco said:
Also if you're playing vs strangers just agree on what is allowed before playing, I'm sure most can agree on that.

Dogs of War have been allowed before, how is this that much different?
Click to expand...


=> That's just it though. You should not have to discuss what is and is not allowed when referring to the standard, official rules. Dogs of War was an actual Army Book. No permission was ever needed. Same with these (as far as I can tell). They are just as much a part of the game as Terradons, Slann upgrades, or march moves, and we don't take the time before a game to ask our opponents for permission to use any of those rules. This is no different.


I do think you may be on to something with the 9th edition reference (which I did not quote). It would not shock me at all to see a radical re-structuring of how armies are chosen in 9th. One very basic core army list book and then these Battlescroll formations. You would not even need full individual army books that way. I dunno, we'll see.

This could all just be a way to test what it coming in 9th and turn a little profit along the way. (nothing wrong with profit)
 
well what if this is no difference than Dogs of War? Release a "core" of formations during December so that everyone can get something. Follow up by releasing more maybe once a week. Maybe GW's idea is to have something like a couple of formations from each faction? Or at the very least one.

Then, later one when all have been released and 9th edition have been released - which is rumoured to be next year - you can buy a book, similar to how you could by a DoW book.

it shouldn't mean that much AND it might even balance (lol balance...) out some of the weakness from some of the factions. Say an empire player wants to field reliable core infantry units? Go pick up a lizardmen formation that comes with saurus warriors.. and some other stuff. I don't know, I'm just making stuff up now lol.

As I said I'll just be mildly optimistic and see how it goes. As of right now I'm not too sure what to think of this, although my hopes for a level 3 skink high priest are now gone.. :(


:P
 
I also had a feeling that the "one big army book where everyone can choose their army freely" rumour came from this. Its misinterpreted, but it fits without stretching it.


Sleboda said:
You would not even need full individual army books that way. I dunno, we'll see.
Click to expand...
+
Pinktaco said:
Go pick up a lizardmen formation that comes with saurus warriors.. and some other stuff.
Click to expand...

unless I have misunderstood something each formation / battlescroll has army requirements.

Be'lakor = DoC and WoC only
Restless dead formation = Vampire counts only

if this stays true, wouldn't army books still be needed?
 
For sure. I think the point is that this shows GWs commitment to moving to digital rulebooks so that they can make updates without having to do a full release. "Living manuals" is definitely better for the hobby, imho, and also shows that GW can adapt to the age of the Internet (something that they've been pretty reticent to even try).
 
Phatmotha-phucka said:
unless I have misunderstood something each formation / battlescroll has army requirements.
...
Restless dead formation = Vampire counts only
Click to expand...
I don't own the iBook, but as far as I understood it, the Restless Dead Formation was available to all armies and are subject to the allies rules in the Warhammer Rulebook.

To me "Battlescroll" seems like a poor way to word the group joining your army. Wouldn't "Warband" be much more fitting?
(I know that term was previously used in Warhammer Fantasy to refer to a set of rules intended for small battle games)
 
Phatmotha-phucka said:
I also had a feeling that the "one big army book where everyone can choose their army freely" rumour came from this. Its misinterpreted, but it fits without stretching it.


Sleboda said:
You would not even need full individual army books that way. I dunno, we'll see.
Click to expand...
+
Pinktaco said:
Go pick up a lizardmen formation that comes with saurus warriors.. and some other stuff.
Click to expand...

unless I have misunderstood something each formation / battlescroll has army requirements.

Be'lakor = DoC and WoC only
Restless dead formation = Vampire counts only

if this stays true, wouldn't army books still be needed?
Click to expand...

"Formations do not have to be chosen from the same army book as the rest of your army.
If you decide to do this, then formations made up of units from different army books
follow the rules for Allied Armies on pages 136-139 of the Warhammer rulebook."

Nope, just needs to be on the right side of the war (good/bad).
 
I see!
And it dosnt need to be on the same side.
We can use these dead as part of a "Desperate alliance" ...just remember to keep your engines and kroaks on the other end of the table, as desperate allies are considered "enemy units" when dealing with spells.

I seriously hope there will be either a useful khemrian formation, as I always liked the idea of a Kroak-model used as a shadow/death slann having some sort of necrotic force with him...

and one thing is for sure: if there comes any Formation containing a big flying beasty like a Phoenix (still wishing, its christmas gentlemen) im most certainly going to make my own Couatl conversion and go "count as" all the way.
 
which is an entirely new option in these scrolls:

Count as Conversions
 
Now that I have been enlightened to the new (to me atleast) digital options, anything that allows me to leverage my ever growing collection of monsters is fine by me!
 
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