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AoS Are Ossiarchs any good? (Practice not theory)

There is aboth a lot of hyperbole and outright misinformation about the Mortek Guard but also the Bonereapers as a whole.

1. We will assume 3+ because that legion is just the best, but it is not 100% sure a player uses that, but ok let us assume this for now.

2. rerolling saves is not a 100% passive ability, it requires 1 relentless discipline point per combat phase. The bonereapers generate these based on heroes and battalions and on a 6+ per unit on the battlefield every battleround. They are not infinite and assuming a Mortek Gaurd unit always rerolls, that is quite an investment and will be points not used somewhere else.

3. The reroll saves is ONLY in the combat phase, you can shoot them just fine. Also the bonereaper player needs to choose at the start of the combat phase who will be rerolling and use the points then, so plan accordingly.

Erta Wanderer said:
yup when fully buffed mortec have the equivalent of a 3+3+6++5++4++
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4. The 5++ mentioned is ONLY against mortal wounds from a spell, some battlereports and youtuber I have seen have rushed reading this, so obviously saying 3+ 3+ 5++ and 6++ will never happen, as the 3+ 3+ is not against MW and the 5++ is only against MW, so the above is wrong.

5. The harvester heals or ressurects 1 wound if a model with 1-4 wounds is slain within 3" of the harvester. This obviously has limitations as well, as an opponent for larger units will first remove models outside of that range of the harvester model. The Bonereaper player can chose to remove models closer to it, but then again, 20 mortek and a harvester to babysit each other is a 460 pts investment and nothing stops you from targeting the harvester first as well.

6. The Hekatos unit champion provides the ability to use shield wall, any unit with the ability to target specific models will be really dangerous, such as a Ghorgon, Morathi, Dankhold Troggoth etc and also some artifacts and spells can do that. This is more situational but has already happened in my games with the reapers and it makes a big difference and is super scary for a reaper player.

That said Seraphon in its current state will struggle a bit against bonereapers due to a general lack of access to rend, especially rend 2 and also a low mortal wound output. On the other hand the reapers have few ways to deal with skinks and teleports and seraphon can quite easily lock down catapults if the reaper brings any, as they have a 6" minimum range. A Shadowstrike battalion can basically lock down catapults turn 1.

The reapers do not have access to flying (except the overcosted morghasts) or a lot of movement shenanigans, so locking them down in skinks is also a viable strategy, who cares about that harvester and guard 500 pts blob, if you can throw skinks at it.

A Thunderquake will also be a good counter, using bastis as blockers, as the most powerful tool of the petrifex legion (who has the +1 save we assumed) is also their +1 rend command ability. The Bastis do not care about this and is the Seraphons 3+/3+ unrendable unit with 4++ against MW in case anyone forgot. They are also shooty so ignores the Mortek Guard Shieldwall with that as well.
 
Scurvydog said:
There is aboth a lot of hyperbole and outright misinformation about the Mortek Guard but also the Bonereapers as a whole.

1. We will assume 3+ because that legion is just the best, but it is not 100% sure a player uses that, but ok let us assume this for now.

2. rerolling saves is not a 100% passive ability, it requires 1 relentless discipline point per combat phase. The bonereapers generate these based on heroes and battalions and on a 6+ per unit on the battlefield every battleround. They are not infinite and assuming a Mortek Gaurd unit always rerolls, that is quite an investment and will be points not used somewhere else.
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yes but most builds have 2 heroes and a battalion so 3-4 points to spend as needed means that they will almost always have it and you are spending a lot of resorses in combat with a dangerous foe trying to force that

Scurvydog said:
3. The reroll saves is ONLY in the combat phase, you can shoot them just fine. Also the bonereaper player needs to choose at the start of the combat phase who will be rerolling and use the points then, so plan accordingly.
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yup but our shooting sucks so if you aren't skaven, ko or irondrakes this doesn't help


Scurvydog said:
4. The 5++ mentioned is ONLY against mortal wounds from a spell, some battlereports and youtuber I have seen have rushed reading this, so obviously saying 3+ 3+ 5++ and 6++ will never happen, as the 3+ 3+ is not against MW and the 5++ is only against MW, so the above is wrong.
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you are right ill change that. still thats not bad as mortals are hyper anvils greates weakness and this just makes that less usful

Scurvydog said:
5. The harvester heals or resurrects 1 wound if a model with 1-4 wounds is slain within 3" of the harvester. This obviously has limitations as well, as an opponent for larger units will first remove models outside of that range of the harvester model. The Bonereaper player can chose to remove models closer to it, but then again, 20 mortek and a harvester to babysit each other is a 460 pts investment and nothing stops you from targeting the harvester first as well.
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except the 20 unkillable guard so it's just shoot the heroes all over again.

Scurvydog said:
6. The Hekatos unit champion provides the ability to use shield wall, any unit with the ability to target specific models will be really dangerous, such as a Ghorgon, Morathi, Dankhold Troggoth etc and also some artifacts and spells can do that. This is more situational but has already happened in my games with the reapers and it makes a big difference and is super scary for a reaper player.
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those are very rare i think only 4 armies have it so not helpful. and no one in their right mind takes Dankhold Troggoth.

Scurvydog said:
That said Seraphon in its current state will struggle a bit against bonereapers due to a general lack of access to rend, especially rend 2 and also a low mortal wound output. On the other hand the reapers have few ways to deal with skinks and teleports and seraphon can quite easily lock down catapults if the reaper brings any, as they have a 6" minimum range. A Shadowstrike battalion can basically lock down catapults turn 1.
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only if your opponent is incredibly stupid otherwise screens egsist for a reason.

Scurvydog said:
The reapers do not have access to flying (except the overcosted morghasts) or a lot of movement shenanigans, so locking them down in skinks is also a viable strategy, who cares about that harvester and guard 500 pts blob, if you can throw skinks at it.
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that's what i do just like always ... fun

Scurvydog said:
A Thunderquake will also be a good counter, using bastis as blockers, as the most powerful tool of the petrifex legion (who has the +1 save we assumed) is also their +1 rend command ability. The Bastis do not care about this and is the Seraphons 3+/3+ unrendable unit with 4++ against MW in case anyone forgot. They are also shooty so ignores the Mortek Guard Shieldwall with that as well.
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no they just kill the EotG turn 1 with catapults and now your very expensive TQ doesn't work learned that one the hard way. or since TQ is just as slow as they are and really doesn't threaten them damage wise they just ignore it.
not to say we have no ways to win against them it's just a bad match up it's fire slayers 2.0 with a lot more options then 3 unkillable mobs
 
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Erta Wanderer said:
yes but most builds have 2 heroes and a battalion so 3-4 points to spend as needed means that they will almost always have it and you are spending a lot of resorses in combat with a dangerous foe trying to force that

yup but our shooting sucks so if you aren't skaven, ko or irondrakes this doesn't help


you are right ill change that. still thats not bad as mortals are hyper anvils greates weakness and this just makes that less usful

except the 20 unkillable guard so it's just shoot the heroes all over again.

those are very rare i think only 4 armies have it so not helpful. and no one in their right mind takes Dankhold Troggoth.

only if your opponent is incredibly stupid otherwise screens egsist for a reason.

that's what i do just like always ... fun

no they just kill the EotG turn 1 with catapults and now your very expensive TQ doesn't work learned that one the hard way. or since TQ is just as slow as they are and really doesn't threaten them damage wise they just ignore it.
not to say we have no ways to win against them it's just a bad match up it's fire slayers 2.0 with a lot more options then 3 unkillable mobs
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And I was so happy when I started my Fyreslayers army... makes me wonder who would win... FS or OB...*hmmm*
 
ILKAIN said:
And I was so happy when I started my Fyreslayers army... makes me wonder who would win... FS or OB...*hmmm*
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fyre slayers have a teleport and hit harder in melee. but since you have no range to kill the harvester it would be down to who can get to the objectives first
 
Erta Wanderer said:
fyre slayers have a teleport and hit harder in melee. but since you have no range to kill the harvester it would be down to who can get to the objectives first
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fyreslayers have a teleport? not that im aware of. we have a single deepstrike unit that can bring one unit with it. but they cant teleport once on the board.
 
sounds Like a good meta for my 4 slann endless spell spam list :D

Im kinda serious. Maybe kroaknado with slann and double eotg support? Either way it’s back to stalling with skinks for us. Don’t even try to kill them at all. Just get points and stall.
 
So I have been doing lots of thinking on this and we do have a few ways to deal with them

if you want to kill them, salamanders are the way to go. They offer the perfect solution for heavy armor as they offer good mortal wounds and heavy rend.
Saurus knights arguably are a better screen as they last longer and in firelance can put out some hurt
stellar tempest on a unit of Mortek guard is lethal.
Also the idea of a Kroak nado probably is a decent one with all the mortal wounds

so we aren’t completely out of the running but it is not an easy match up
 
I have played 2 matches vs Bonereapers. One with my Seraphon one with STD. Won the Seraphon game due to objectives but got basically tabled with my 3 units of saurus knights killing 3 models and slann getting killed turn 1 with catapult. STD got tabled by turn 3 and I killed 5 models
 
T-Wrecks said:
I have played 2 matches vs Bonereapers. One with my Seraphon one with STD. Won the Seraphon game due to objectives but got basically tabled with my 3 units of saurus knights killing 3 models and slann getting killed turn 1 with catapult. STD got tabled by turn 3 and I killed 5 models
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that sounds about right sorry you had a hard time
 
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