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9th Age 9th Age (beta) out now - check link in first post

I cant find anything about the damage cannons do, ASF or loremaster. Where are they?
 
Supernatural reflexes = ASF
Loremaster = pathmaster.
Nothing about strenght of cannos so I'm assuming that's for the ABs.
 
"If (Ordnance) is stated as the value in brackets, this counts as Multiple Wounds (D3+1) normally, but against
targets with the Fly Special Rule this is increased to Multiple Wounds (D3+2)."
This might be for cannons, its under multiple wounds.
 
I think that the cannon damage is no longer standard, but will be in each relevant army book.

That makes sense to me anyway. There is no reason a tiny dwarf cannon should hit as hard as the massive Cannon of the Sky Titans that an ogre ironblaster is lugging around.

I really like that cannons are no longer sniper rifles. That is a very good change (especially for lizards).

I am confused about the cannon misfire table: how do you get a 0 or lower?
 
Did they forget a to hit chard? Can't find it anywherez... and in combat only says allocate attacks step 1 roll to wound is step 2... where is to hit?
 
skink chief said:
Did they forget a to hit chard? Can't find it anywherez... and in combat only says allocate attacks step 1 roll to wound is step 2... where is to hit?
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Page 27, last paragraph. There is no chart, but it is described there.

They employ the same method as used in 8th.
 
I came across something peculiar (& troubling)

Page 36:
Ridden Monster's Profile: Models with this rule follow all rules for Combined Profile, except that when being attacked, attacks are resolved always against the Monster, so use the WS, T, W and Saves of the Monster (this means that any armour equipment worn by the rider or his Ward/Regeneration save have no effect).

Am I reading this correct? It would seem that if attacking a monster riding character, the character's armour/ward/regen are completely useless and once the monster's wounds are exhausted the whole model is removed. I've only been skimming through the document so perhaps there is something that I'm missing (or at least I hope so!!).
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
I came across something peculiar (& troubling)

Page 36:
Ridden Monster's Profile: Models with this rule follow all rules for Combined Profile, except that when being attacked, attacks are resolved always against the Monster, so use the WS, T, W and Saves of the Monster (this means that any armour equipment worn by the rider or his Ward/Regeneration save have no effect).

Am I reading this correct? It would seem that if attacking a monster riding character, the character's armour/ward/regen are completely useless and once the monster's wounds are exhausted the whole model is removed. I've only been skimming through the document so perhaps there is something that I'm missing (or at least I hope so!!).
Click to expand...

All i can think is that rule is made so that WoC cant get the unkillable Lord on a dragon. Other than that it seems like a stupid rule
 
I believe it's due to the fact, that most monster will fall under the monstrous beast rule, where in they basically counts as being monstrous cav., our Carno will be in that category, while stegadons will be in the ridden monster group.
This is good for us, but bad news for WoC, DE and HE who's dragons will be easier to take down.
 
Well that WS7/S7/T7/W7 dragon won't care too much. Besides mostly were talking dragons with 6-7 wounds, with nerfed cannons and improved LoS. Those guys can much more easily fly to their target.

It all depends on the pricing. Hopefully big monsters get cheaper so we'll see more.
 
Wow if that is what they invision... ok cool no superhardcore dragonriders, but for the army that has them it would basically mean: you can't take any magic armour ( because it won't matter). Wich is stupid...
 
There are still regular heroes/lords and likely other monsters they can use on combination with magic items. It's a split to not make the super big guys impossible to deal with while actually making thel usable. Wouldn't you agree the proposed karnosaurus is more viable than the current one?
 
skink chief said:
Wow if that is what they invision... ok cool no superhardcore dragonriders, but for the army that has them it would basically mean: you can't take any magic armour ( because it won't matter). Wich is stupid...
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I guess it came down to either make a statement on every magic item, that would be op on one such model, that it csnt be used or simple make it so it wouldn't matter ;)
 
The Sauric Ace said:
I guess it came down to either make a statement on every magic item, that would be op on one such model, that it csnt be used or simple make it so it wouldn't matter ;)
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I guess. But still... I only have LM, but if I were a WoC player and if I couldn't give a hero on dragon magic armour.. I mean it just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe thes was indeed the only option to put them in check a bit, but again doesn't make sense and thats what I dislike about it, even though its probably good for balancing these models.

Edit* I feel like this is one of those breaking issues that will result in alot of players with armies that have these monsters to leave 9th age on the sideline..
 
Why is that exactly? No offence, but that makes even less sense and is complete nonsense. First of all its a beta and they've already said they're looking into play testing exactly that. People are aware of that and this is in the grand scheme of things a small issue. In any games prio to release there'll be quirks and and other oddities that needs to be dealt with. This is just one of them.

Second of all you have absolutely no idea how each individual army is being treated. You don't know if they have other things making them unique as in specific upgrades only for the few affected. You don't know if the point cost was changed and if the stats makes sense.

For instance maybe the high elf book is left with 3 options: star dragon without the combined profile and armour save. A lesse dragon with combined stats, magic armour etc and then the mage fire dragon which is also combined.

All models can be used.
The star dragon have ridiculous stats and is still unique, but maybe the point cost will be lowered due to it being more vulnerable than the others.
You still have the opportunity to go with a good dragon and combine it with the armour you want.

These are just examples.

Thirdly we're coming from an edition that hardly saw any ridden monsters. Now we may see them and the rules haven't been finalized. The rules may not be perfect, but at the least most monsters are now worth considering based on what we know.

One solution could be that the big monsters aren't allowed to take magic armour and talismans, but only weapons and enchanted items. That still leave for some customization with the worst not there. Maybe cap it at 50pts or something like that.

The point is that anything can happen. This is the solution they have proposed now and sure if it turns out to be ridiculous and people are complaining they'll change it. Personally my issue isn't that a small amount of characters cannot take magic items, but rather that in the process of streamlining and making rules easier they actually managed to do the opposite with this one.
 
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skink chief said:
but if I were a WoC player and if I couldn't give a hero on dragon magic armour.. I mean it just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe thes was indeed the only option to put them in check a bit, but again doesn't make sense and thats what I dislike about it, even though its probably good for balancing these models.
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I also play WoC in addition to my Lizardmen and I feel that this rule is absolutely ridiculous. If this rule stands as is (and there are no other relevant factors that we're currently unaware of), then they have effectively made the Chaos dragon worthless. It already wasn't the most competitive choice to begin with, but this would be the final nail in the coffin. Additionally, like you said, it doesn't make any sense at all. Why do other slightly smaller monster mounts get the advantage of using the riders defensive kit, while others do not? Where is the line drawn and why? An Old blood on a Carno can use his armour/ward but a chaos lord on a dragon can't?

I'm not a fan at all of these combined profiles. There was nothing wrong with having ridden monsters with separate profiles. All they had to do was award partial points for killing the mount or character and change the rule so that cannons randomize which element (mount or character) they hit.
 
Would said chaos dragon be worthless if it was given the star dragon treatment and a good and competitive price? The karnosaurus isn't just to models combined, it's S6 at W4. Besides the manticore will still allow magic amour etc.

I just think there are too many unknowns to already be pissed.
 
Yeah lets wait till the armybooks show up before making conlcusions...
 
Pinktaco said:
Would said chaos dragon be worthless if it was given the star dragon treatment and a good and competitive price? The karnosaurus isn't just to models combined, it's S6 at W4. Besides the manticore will still allow magic amour etc.
Click to expand...
Personally I don't particularly like the combined profile mechanic for monsters. What makes it worse is that there seems to be two sets of rules based on what seems like a very arbitrary distinction (why dragons and not carnos? etc.). Yes the dragon can be given a competitive points value, but it still damages the feel of having a mighty Chaos lord on a dragon.

Pinktaco said:
I just think there are too many unknowns to already be pissed.
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I wouldn't say that I'm pissed at all. I have nothing on the line here, so there really is nothing to be angry about. 9th age costs me nothing and 8th edition is still my front running choice. 9th age has to be spectacular for it to dethrone 8th in my eyes.

I'm just slowly compiling a list of pros and cons, and this rule is (at least for the moment, new information could change it) a very big con.
 
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