Can someone in the UK give me context for what is going on? (Political)

[Killer Angel]

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
Probably the man is being emotional, and i'm fairly sure he sees his Country in a situation worse than the real one... but still it hurts to hear such pain in a vet's voice.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
Probably the man is being emotional, and i'm fairly sure he sees his Country in a situation worse than the real one... but still it hurts to hear such pain in a vet's voice.

I recall seeing this crop up on the news... to be honest I think the poor chap's mind is getting feeble and impressionable with old age, which can be seen as understandable given everything he went through. Not to mention that he's probably been used to watching the TV and taking it all in as fact, because until recently the media was focused on just delivering the facts - Inform, Entertain and Educate was the motto of the BBC in earlier times, when it was a politically-unbiased organisation intended to do just those things. He probably isn't aware of how much more sensationalist media is these days, desperate to draw out a few particularly unpleasant issues just to play up hype and get people talking, rather than look at the bigger picture. Not to mention he probably has children, grandchildren, possibly even great-grandchildren who spend a lot of time drinking in social media misinformation and preaching that as fact to him too... and of course he's going to take them at their word, because they're his family, and you're instinctively inclined to trust your nearest and dearest.

However, I do also think a man of his calibre as a veteran should have shown the backbone to ignore the doomsayers, look around him and form an opinion based upon his experiences, not what he hears on the media. It was a stupid thing for him to say... not only disrespectful to his nation, but also disrespectful to his younger self and his comrades who died to ensure this country escaped the terror of Nazi Germany and restored peace and freedom to the world. At that time, nobody could have seen what would happen this many decades into the future... only what immediately lay ahead should they fail to defeat Hitler, who allegedly had just as grim a plan for occupying Britain as everywhere else - English men sent to labour in mines as slaves, English women whored out to German officers as part of the Lebensborn programme, Welsh, Scots and Irish persecuted even more because they wouldn't have fallen under the 'Anglo-Saxon-and-thus-German' category English people would have been considered part of, British Jews (and all the foreign Jews who had already fled here to escape Hitler) rounded up and sent to the gas chambers in Europe. Hitler wanted to enslave the world to serve his 'German Aryan Master Race', and Britain would have been no exception.

I'm not particularly fond of WWII as a historical period... principally because it brought about the fall of the British Empire and the rise of America as a far less cultured and less benign influence upon Western society. However, one thing I cannot deny is that it was worth every ounce of blood, toil, tears and sweat Britain put into defeating Hitler and making sure his evil plans wouldn't spread any further. Britain was the one truly benign and organised force for good in WWII, unlike the short-sighted French, the Soviets who were equally as evil as Hitler but on the opposite end of the political horseshoe, Japan with its horrific treatment of prisoners-of-war and Asian civilians, and the US which was a selfish mercenary of a country that sat on its arse doing nothing for borderline three years, and when it did eventually decide to join only because Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, it charged the rest of the Allies through the nose for shitty equipment and undisciplined troops that needed us to give them a heap of training before they could even fight competently. Britain and its Commonwealth was the only Allied power to dedicate the entire 6 years of the War into opposing the Nazi regime, and we all know the world has been a far better place without the Austrian painter and his goose-stepping mob (even though we have his Russian equivalent in the form of Putin to deal with now). Britain and the Commonwealth deserve the most thanks for making that happen, especially all those brave men who fought to ensure that it did... and to see one of them openly disrespecting the very cause he fought for, because he no longer has the guts to challenge a whining rhetoric damaging national morale, is more saddening in itself than his words. He's letting them win, letting the naysayers damage his resolve. He may be a veteran, but he's also still a human being with flaws, and I can see one of those flaws very much evident in him now. If anything, it prompts me to lose respect for him specifically. How can he of all people just spinelessly turn his back on the country he fought so hard to preserve?

Britain is still a safe country (Hell, one thing about all these illegal immigrants trying to come here is that is full-on proof of how safe the nation is compared to the miserable excuses for nations they come from)... probably still safer than America is with its inbred attitude to guns. It's still a wealthy country compared to at least 80% of others on the planet. Its society is more organised and developed than those 80% of other countries. Not to mention that the country is still in a better state than it was following the War up to the 1970s (when mass strikes and the decline of the old industries caused a huge amount of trouble). Though worthless traitors are trying to puppet it to serve their own woke regime these days, I still damned well wouldn't trade it for any other nation, most of which in the West are going through similar issues or equally concerning problems of their own, and I also certainly wouldn't trade my country's history for anyone else's. Unfortunately free speech dictates that weak spineless misinformers are allowed just as much right to express their opinions as sane men, but now I just ignore them, because they just continually make short-sighted, moaning complaints that "wE're dOomed, BrItaIn is fIniSHed" without doing anything about any of their supposed fears, proof of just how pathetic they are. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are being openly paid by Russia to spread misinformation to damage morale. But even if older generations no longer have the spine to stand up to such moaners, I at least still have faith enough in my country to recognise it is still Great Britain, and can still remain Great in the future.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

but still it hurts to hear such pain in a vet's voice.

It's so genuine. Pure heartbreak.

Imagine sacrificing so much and experiencing the atrocities he has witnessed only to have that legacy, at least from his vantage point, tarnished. Very emotional.

 

[Killer Angel]

Wow, i didn't expect such a deep answer, thanks.

anyway, this sums pretty much what i was thinking:

to be honest I think the poor chap's mind is getting feeble and impressionable with old age, which can be seen as understandable given everything he went through.

i give him a pass not because of his vet's status, but because you cannot expect objective reasonings from such old men.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Wow, i didn't expect such a deep answer, thanks.

anyway, this sums pretty much what i was thinking:


i give him a pass not because of his vet's status, but because you cannot expect objective reasonings from such old men.

Time will tell.

 

[Killer Angel]

Not UK (even if britain is involved) but given the political content, i'll leave this here for debate.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

If the United Kingdom was a very peaceful utopian place and hateful words was the biggest problem, I would not be offended by policing like this, or at least not very offended by this.

You guys in the USA have it right... first amendment.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

You guys in the USA have it right... first amendment.

Please, most of those rights were already established in the UK from the Glorious Revolution onwards, using principles drawn up in Magna Carta and by Henry Ireton, a prominent Parliamentarian politician in the Wars of the Four Kingdoms (known to most as the English Civil War, though it was one of many we've had). Where do you think the American rebels got those values from? The democracy we established in our constitutional monarchy avoided us going the way of the French and genociding our aristocracy, and finally put to rest the eternal struggle between premier and people to allow us to concentrate on empire-building. And now, it's not that democratic ideal we've established that is the problem, it's lefties trying to erode it.

Talking of the relationship between premier and people, you champion the US but the rights in their beloved cOnsTiTutIon are currently in the process of being similarly eroded (but for different political motives), as Julius Caesar 2.0 continues to stick all his little mates into the judiciary and the media so that he can get away with every felony under the sun without anyone being able to touch him. The man admires Putin for a reason.

You do surprise me in having such a pro-American view of things a lot of the time (except when they threatened Canada with annexation )... you watch, America will go back to the Gilded Age under Trump... and no doubt some will say it already is with its Wild West attitude to guns, and its culture oriented around everyone scrabbling and competing with each other to be one of the haves and avoid joining the 'trailer trash'.

 

[Killer Angel]

the best comedians are the ones that tell the bitter truth with a joke.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Please

You might not have noticed, but I've tried to steer clear of debating you on this topic. The truth is that you are emotionally tied to the subject. I've seen some of the responses you have posted, and they are a bit aggressive. Nothing too drastic, but clearly emotionally motivated. It's the same reason why I don't particularly like to debate people on the topic of religion. If we engage in the topic, mark my words, it will escalate. The very things that allow me to predict the trajectory of this discussion, are the same ones I'll weaponize against you if we transition from discussion to debate. You know my stance on a debate, it's kill or be killed. I'm always down to dance when need be, but seeing as it is Christmas, we could just decide not to go down that rabbit hole.

Please, most of those rights were already established in the UK from the Glorious Revolution onwards, using principles drawn up in Magna Carta and by Henry Ireton, a prominent Parliamentarian politician in the Wars of the Four Kingdoms (known to most as the English Civil War, though it was one of many we've had). Where do you think the American rebels got those values from? The democracy we established in our constitutional monarchy avoided us going the way of the French and genociding our aristocracy, and finally put to rest the eternal struggle between premier and people to allow us to concentrate on empire-building. And now, it's not that democratic ideal we've established that is the problem, it's lefties trying to erode it.

Talking of the relationship between premier and people, you champion the US but the rights in their beloved cOnsTiTutIon are currently in the process of being similarly eroded (but for different political motives), as Julius Caesar 2.0 continues to stick all his little mates into the judiciary and the media so that he can get away with every felony under the sun without anyone being able to touch him. The man admires Putin for a reason.

You do surprise me in having such a pro-American view of things a lot of the time (except when they threatened Canada with annexation )... you watch, America will go back to the Gilded Age under Trump... and no doubt some will say it already is with its Wild West attitude to guns, and its culture oriented around everyone scrabbling and competing with each other to be one of the haves and avoid joining the 'trailer trash'.

This is one hundred percent a strawman argument, in its absolute entirety. None of what you wrote addressed my point at all. If you recall, my statement simply read:

"You guys in the USA have it right... first amendment." [bolded for emphasis]

My statement is in regards to the USA's first amendment free speech protection rights. I made no comment on any other aspects of the USA, as it did not pertain to the subject matter of the original video and the subsequent discussion. There are aspects of the US that are great, mediocre and poor, just like any other country, but those are different discussions and have no bearing on the topic at hand. As such, you are arguing against phantoms of your own creation. With that in mind, let's look at why your entire argument is a strawman:

Please, most of those rights were already established in the UK from the Glorious Revolution onwards, using principles drawn up in Magna Carta and by Henry Ireton, a prominent Parliamentarian politician in the Wars of the Four Kingdoms (known to most as the English Civil War, though it was one of many we've had). Where do you think the American rebels got those values from? The democracy we established in our constitutional monarchy avoided us going the way of the French and genociding our aristocracy, and finally put to rest the eternal struggle between premier and people to allow us to concentrate on empire-building. And now, it's not that democratic ideal we've established that is the problem, it's lefties trying to erode it.

American law is built upon on a foundation of British common law. I made no argument against this. In terms of a "first amendment" type legal protection, the USA has it and Britain does not (nor does Canada). Since you don't even have such a free speech protection law in place, you can't claim recognition on behalf of the UK for the US first amendment. Hence your entire passage above is irrelevant to my original statement. Strawman.

Talking of the relationship between premier and people, you champion the US but the rights in their beloved cOnsTiTutIon are currently in the process of being similarly eroded (but for different political motives), as Julius Caesar 2.0 continues to stick all his little mates into the judiciary and the media so that he can get away with every felony under the sun without anyone being able to touch him. The man admires Putin for a reason.

Even if Trump wanted to, he can't change the First Amendment. It requires a 2/3's supermajority in congress (house and senate) to make such a change. If it ever gets brought down, then I won't "champion" the US for it. However, despite pushes against it (both today and in days gone by), it stands pretty resolute. As such, my statement holds true, and your counterargument is once again off base. Trump isn't trying to abolish the first amendment, so bringing him into the discussion is irrelevant.

You do surprise me in having such a pro-American view of things a lot of the time (except when they threatened Canada with annexation )

Trump isn't going to annex Canada. He won't do it militarily and if it came up for Canadian citizens to vote on (which I honestly wouldn't be bothered about), the motion would fail. There isn't nearly enough support for it, not even close.

But once again, this has nothing to do with my assessment of the US first amendment.

and no doubt some will say it already is with its Wild West attitude to guns

And yet again, I made no commentary on US second amendment rights. While an interesting topic in its own right, it is irrelevant to the original statement you are commenting on.

and its culture oriented around everyone scrabbling and competing with each other to be one of the haves and avoid joining the 'trailer trash'.

My statement made no mention of income inequality. That has nothing to do with first amendment rights, so it is irrelevant (are we starting to see a trend here?).



So I end this post just as I began it... where do we go from here? You are emotionally invested in the subject and I am not. What will upset you will be a fun little exercise in shitposting for me. I have refrained from being too harsh on the UK, because to be honest, I don't really want to hurt your feelings. And let me be clear, I'm not implying any weakness on your part, but rather that you seem more patriotically motivated than I am. As stated before, I have good memories of the UK and I don't want to see it fall. Also, I don't really want to step on your patriotic love for your nation. However, if we debate the topic, then my debate win condition becomes showing just how far the UK has fallen. Trust me when I say that you probably won't enjoy the exchange. If it were someone else, I'd probably be well into my opening debate salvos, but despite our differences, I like you. No need to be at each other's throats, especially before the holidays. We can always argue about Star Wars