Can someone in the UK give me context for what is going on? (Political)

[NIGHTBRINGER]

*and yes, it should go without saying... not all immigration.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Hungary has a long and sorted history with Russia. They were under Soviet rule for a long time. They only got truly free of them not too long ago, and that memory is still in the hearts and minds of the people. Also, a lot of the energy resources the country relies on is coming from Russia. Hungary is a small place, not very powerful and aren't looking for trouble. They don't want to get involved. Orban is looking out for national interests, as he should.

The thing is, though, their neutrality, much like Switzerland's in every European conflict known to exist, generally helps the aggressor more than the oppressed... and if Putin were to get his way and eventually annex Ukraine, Orban would be a fool to think he would stop there - Putin clearly openly wants to, at the very least, return Russia to the level of power in Europe the Soviet Union had, including taking back all the nations that gained independence from it after its fall in the 90s... and ironically, Orban's isolationism now makes him and Hungary a lot more vulnerable to the potential scenario of an invading Russia in the future, and is thereby mistakenly acting against his nation's interests in the long run. True, he has stood up to the EU and closed his borders to preserve Hungary's population and culture - that is a display of backbone, there can be no doubt... but that doesn't mean he can't exercise the common sense needed to be willing to cooperate with the EU in establishing a united front against Putin's hunger for power. Just because he hasn't been critical of the invasion, that doesn't mean Putin won't see him as a target to be swallowed up by his fascist Russian regime - indeed Orban's comparative cooperation in purchasing oil and other energy resources from Russia will only give Putin political ammunition to claim that Hungary is willing to be colonised by Russia, like Donetsk and Luhansk in Ukraine. If Orban continues his current political stance, I can see he will simply be trading one master for another that will be far less accommodating toward Hungary's desire for freedom.

On a related note...

Yesterday, in TV interviews with some of the few heads of Reform councils that have sprouted up around the UK, at least one has openly stated their pledge to take down not just Pride flags (absolutely a good thing), but also Ukraine flags, which is immensely disturbing. I already knew that Farage wasn't as critical of Putin as he should be, but one of his subordinates being openly willing to withdraw visual support for a country fighting a clear self-declared enemy of peace and freedom in Europe, just as we in Britain and the Commonwealth did over 80 years ago, is deluded and sick. Moreover, if it's purely born out of a fear of Russia, it is innately cowardly.

I honestly cannot understand how politicians anywhere, whether here, or in Hungary or the US, cannot simply be right-wing and patriotic, and also remain conscious that Putin's fascism is a threat to national freedom, and is thus an enemy of a true patriot? Support for Ukraine is not Left-wing, it is a genuine gesture of solidarity against aspiring Russian dictatorship.

It just adds more evidence to the proof that there are delusions on both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

their neutrality, much like Switzerland's

Switzerland's neutrality in WWII was the ultimate boss move. Not only did they manage to avoid having their country bombed to shit like the rest of Europe, but they convinced everyone to let them hold on to their money. Of course, if push came to shove, they did have the capability to defend their country; that was the key.

and if Putin were to get his way and eventually annex Ukraine, Orban would be a fool to think he would stop there - Putin clearly openly wants to, at the very least, return Russia to the level of power in Europe the Soviet Union had, including taking back all the nations that gained independence from it after its fall in the 90s

I can't speak for Orban, but I have very little fear of Russia taking Hungary. If the war in Ukraine has taught us anything, it's that Russia's forces are not nearly as powerful as some people might believe. Three plus years later and they still haven't managed to conquer Ukraine. If that had been the USA in Russia's place, they could have taken the entire country in like a couple of days, tops. Sure, lowly Ukraine has no real shot of beating the Russians in a war of attrition, but against the might NATO the Russians would be defeated with ease. The second they would attack Hungary or any other NATO country, article 5 kicks in and Russia is crushed. The disparity in military strength is too great.

Yesterday, in TV interviews with some of the few heads of Reform councils that have sprouted up around the UK, at least one has openly stated their pledge to take down not just Pride flags (absolutely a good thing), but also Ukraine flags, which is immensely disturbing. I already knew that Farage wasn't as critical of Putin as he should be, but one of his subordinates being openly willing to withdraw visual support for a country fighting a clear self-declared enemy of peace and freedom in Europe, just as we in Britain and the Commonwealth did over 80 years ago, is deluded and sick. Moreover, if it's purely born out of a fear of Russia, it is innately cowardly.

I honestly cannot understand how politicians anywhere, whether here, or in Hungary or the US, cannot simply be right-wing and patriotic, and also remain conscious that Putin's fascism is a threat to national freedom, and is thus an enemy of a true patriot? Support for Ukraine is not Left-wing, it is a genuine gesture of solidarity against aspiring Russian dictatorship.

It just adds more evidence to the proof that there are delusions on both sides of the political spectrum.

I am not pro-Ukraine nearly as much as you are. Russia is ultimately wrong in their invasion of a sovereign nation, but the situation is not purely black & white either. The same can be said about material support for Ukraine. Canada is sending over billions of dollars while we have a growing national debt, a housing shortage, an increasingly strained health care system and a myriad of other domestic problems. Sometimes you have to take care of your own.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[Killer Angel]

this should go straight into the "just for laugh" thread...

 

[Scalenex]

I'm sure Putin wants to takes over Europe but he can't.

I'm sure the CCP wants to become the super power of Earth but they can't.

The thing is, it's not a zero/sum game where our choices are utopia or death. A failed attempt at global or continental domination will lead to mass suffering and death. That's basically what WWII was.

I want to see Putin utterly crushed, so no would-be warlord even thinks about doing something like that again. I would be okay with higher taxes to support Ukraine in this, just like I spend extra time and money to avoid buying things made in China. I don't have enough conviction to pick up a rifle and fight the bad guys. I guess my conviction is "I am willing to take a mild financial hit for my ideals."

That said, I can understand why someone would say "We should deal with our own problems before we fix the rest of the world's problems." In my opinion, there is nothing morally wrong with that stance.

What I don't like, is "My political party is my tribe and my tribe says I should side with Faction X in international conflict Y".

But the Russia-Ukraine war is a whole other thing, this is thread is talking about the UK. The UK has aided Ukraine and this costs money, but I think this is a proverbial drop in the bucket compared to their overall budget.

I guess what gets me is how the police work in the UK. Granted I am getting biased news sources (I don't know where to find unbiased news sources about the UK) but it seems like the police are spending lots of time, money, and manpower to arrest or fine some people for very minor trivial offenses while turning a blind eye to very serious crimes. And it seems to be racially biased though there could be a dimension I'm not seeing.

I heard a testimony of a Navy veteran on shore leave in California. He said he was given a fine for jaywalking at the same time a group of poor people were jaywalking nearby and not left alone. When asked why the cop ticketed him, he said "You looked like you could pay the fine." Maybe there is a financial incentive in the UK, but to an outside observer it looks like the ruling powers in the UK feel such overwhelming guilt for the sins the British Empire committed that they think their culture deserves to die.

This seems backwards. I don't know why the UK (and the West in general) doesn't celebrate their good historical actions more.

The British Empire did have slaves in the past, but they also spearheaded the push to abolish slavery worldwide. They spent blood and treasure to end slavery in the 19th and even 20th centuries.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

this should go straight into the "just for laugh" thread...

It would be funny if it weren't true.



I did hear someone make a funny comment once, something along the lines of changing his VPN to a UK server and dropping the dirtiest, darkest and most risqué memes just to fuck with the UK police.

 

[The Red Devil]

The thing is, though, their neutrality, much like Switzerland's in every European conflict known to exist, generally helps the aggressor more than the oppressed... and if Putin were to get his way and eventually annex Ukraine, Orban would be a fool to think he would stop there - Putin clearly openly wants to, at the very least, return Russia to the level of power in Europe the Soviet Union had

"Want", is far from "being able".

There is a lot of fear talk about Russia, especially by politicians, and Ukraine lobbying for more help, stating that if Ukraine falls, then Russia will continue the march.

The fact is that there is no way they can do that, so it's all fear-monger talk. Just NATO in Europe could easily beat back Russia with no help from US. The combined military might is significantly larger than Russia's. Not to mention that an attack on a NATO country would make the frontline from Norway to Latvia, or even larger if Belarus joins Russia, this is a distance significantly greater than the current frontline in Ukraine, and there is no way Russia has the manpower (or perhaps materiel is more correct to say) to protect it in its entirety. What they have is more nukes than the rest of Europe, though.

If that had been the USA in Russia's place, they could have taken the entire country in like a couple of days, tops.

Most probably not, the US does not have a standing army large enough to make that possible. Ukraine is a large country, and large distances make supply difficult without a large army. I am not saying they would not have won, but it would have taken longer than a few days.

In general, Ukraine has turned into Russia's "Vietnam", since it receives a lot of military equipment as well as close to, if not over, a trillion of euro in support to maintain the war efforts. Without this help, the war would most probably have ended after a few months.

To put it in perspective, under Operation Barbarossa, the Germans had the entire Army Group South focus on Ukraine (around a million troops), and they conquered it in around three months. However, this was against roughly the same number of defending Soviet forces.

 

[Scalenex]

"Hey, migrants are doing bad things!"

In this case, killing and eating animals in the park.

1. It doesn’t happen
2. Okay, it happens but rarely
3. It happens, but it’s not a big deal
4. It happens, and actually it’s good
5. It happens, and if you don’t like it, you’re the problem

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

"Hey, migrants are doing bad things!"

In this case, killing and eating animals in the park.

1. It doesn’t happen
2. Okay, it happens but rarely
3. It happens, but it’s not a big deal
4. It happens, and actually it’s good
5. It happens, and if you don’t like it, you’re the problem

Given Farage is brain-dead enough to not criticise Trump's recent brain-dead comments on paracetamol and vaccines supposedly being bad for you, I'd be hardly surprised if this is over-exaggerated, even if there is no doubt a small minority of foreigners who are indeed scum that would do things like this.

And given this has allegedly already happened in the US also, it's not a UK-specific problem... like most things brought up in this thread.

Can I ask you something? Do you actively enjoy watching all these doom-and-gloom YouTube channels and mindlessly drinking in everything they say as fact? Particularly when they refer to my country specifically?

 

[Scalenex]

Can I ask you something? Do you actively enjoy watching all these doom-and-gloom YouTube channels and mindlessly drinking in everything they say as fact? Particularly when they refer to my country specifically?

I am a big fan of the movie Hot Fuzz. The missing swan was a repeating gag in the movie. I only recently found out that all swans in Britain belong to the royal family and there are special laws protecting swans in the UK.

So this story caught my eye because I had swans on the brain.

It is also interesting that in some, we First World people are the weird ones for protecting wildlife.

For most places and times in human history, animals get eaten. A bunch of Youtubers I like that go on motorcycle rides across Asia have pointed out that there are a lot more vosob;e birds, mammals and snakes in Taiwan than in mainland China. Because in mainland China, non-poisonous things with meat on them get eaten.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I am a big fan of the movie Hot Fuzz. The missing swan was a repeating gag in the movie. I only recently found out that all swans in Britain belong to the royal family and there are special laws protecting swans in the UK.

So this story caught my eye because I had swans on the brain.

Fair enough, I can see the train of thought, and yes, swans are protected here... but was it necessary to post this here too? Because I'm just concerned this thread is just becoming a "let's shit on Britain in its current state because we believe all the doomposting from YouTubers who don't know the full picture and just want to make a sensation" thread.

It is also interesting that in some, we First World people are the weird ones for protecting wildlife.

Not really... we're just the ones who have actually evolved a conscience toward animals and wildlife in recent times, partly because we (largely, given there are a few pillocks around even in our own countries... so much for genetic evolution) understand that our society has largely transcended the need for subsistence living and there is no need to practice the barbarisms our ancestors did anymore. We're not weird for that... we're just advanced in that area where other countries are not. It's the other countries that are backward, and weird for continuing their backwards habits when, in this age of unparalleled prosperity for most of the world, they continue to do primitive, caveman-worthy things like murdering rhinos to use their horns in drugs, or killing chimps to cook over a fire and sell pieces of to passers-by.

Don't get me wrong, I agree we shouldn't be punished for the degeneracies of backwards people with inferior ideas, as per the point you originally mention in your earlier post... but there's not much point discussing it here because what can we do about it? Bugger all, because, such is the way of the world, we're not given the chance to do what the actual politicians and authorities should be doing.

Let's just put this thread to bed and go back to discussing wargames, that's what the forum's about, after all.

 

[Killer Angel]

let's shit on Britain in its current state

not on their watch!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

not on their watch!

View attachment 166841

And not on my watch either... I was simply lamenting the nature of the thread containing so many YouTube videos disrespecting my great country.

But it shall not fall while the silent majority of patriots still draw breath!

 

[Killer Angel]

And not on my watch either... I was simply lamenting the nature of the thread containing so many YouTube videos disrespecting my great country.

But it shall not fall while the silent majority of patriots still draw breath!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

A most pleasant upgrade on Cadians indeed. I believe the heads look to be the original sculpts from Victoria Miniatures:


Love the fact they've even made some empty Pith helmets to add them to whatever heads you like...

All very inspiring for a set of Steampunk Science Fantasy wargames rules I've been playing around with.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

"All right, all right, nobody told you to stop working!"

 

[Killer Angel]

GIven we are already OT, let's delve deeper...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

 

[Scalenex]

If the United Kingdom was a very peaceful utopian place and hateful words was the biggest problem, I would not be offended by policing like this, or at least not very offended by this.

But it seems like the UK sends 11 cops to go after a woman in a bath but zero cops to go after violent recurring committers of s-ex crimes.

At some point, I think the powers that be are TRYING to destroy their own society there.

And even if you take away the hypocrisy and look at this event in isolation. Actions like this are not going to help gay people avoid being slurred. Actions like this will make people want to say those words MORE, not less.

EDIT: Unrelated note. CNN's strategy of using angry talking heads to discuss an issue is an inefficient and silly way to discuss complex issues.