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GW News: LAS VEGAS OPEN 2025

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Also newest rumour engine. Don't think many guesses are needed for that.


NIGHTBRINGER said:
Tough shit for them, it's an official model. I'd rather not play with those kinds of people.
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I mean, the old Kroak model is technicly no longer officially valid. They have at least some kinda point :p
 
Canas said:
I mean, the old Kroak model is technicly no longer officially valid. They have at least some kinda point :p
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They have absolutely no standing. I'd rather bludgeon them to death with my metal lord Kroak model (for the record, the metal Hellcannon works better for this) than let them pull this one on me. In actuality, I'd tell them where to go and find a better game. Of course, I wouldn't be playing AoS in the first place. :cool:

It is an official GW model. Plain and simple. Not sure how things work in AoS land, but older discontinued models have always been valid in WHFB.

It would be a very bad precedent to let GW get away with something like this (new updated models invalidating the previous iteration). Too much simping for Games Workshop.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
They have absolutely no standing. I'd rather bludgeon them to death with my metal lord Kroak model (for the record, the metal Hellcannon works better for this) than let them pull this one on me. In actuality, I'd tell them where to go and find a better game. Of course, I wouldn't be playing AoS in the first place. :cool:

It is an official GW model. Plain and simple. Not sure how things work in AoS land, but older discontinued models have always been valid in WHFB.

It would be a very bad precedent to let GW get away with something like this (new updated models invalidating the previous iteration). Too much simping for Games Workshop.
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Older discontinued models are still valid, so long as the new version isn't significantly different and this difference can't be used to your advantage.

E.g. the new Kroak is much bigger than the old Kroak, ergo the old kroak no longer counts. So if you use the old model you could hide him behind things the new model can't hide behind. Which would be unfair. But for example, the old saurus warriors will still be fine when the new ones are released as they're more or less the same size.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
4. Slann - a huge step back from the current sculpt. It looks strange.
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I don't think the new Slann sculpt is that bad, but I'm not a fan of the legs/feet. However, I know how much you like the current Slann model, so I get it.

Canas said:
Meh, if it means Slann (and kroak) get proper profiles that are capable of anything other than simply sitting in a corner with board-wide spells & the guard are no longer a glorified upgrade but a proper unit in their own right I'd be happy.
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That's fair. I still wish it stayed around 50mm - 60mm, but I guess we'll see what GW does to the Slann & Guard this summer.
 
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Canas said:
Meh, if it means Slann (and kroak) get proper profiles that are capable of anything other than simply sitting in a corner with board-wide spells & the guard are no longer a glorified upgrade but a proper unit in their own right I'd be happy.
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So much this
 
Canas said:
Older discontinued models are still valid, so long as the new version isn't significantly different and this difference can't be used to your advantage.
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And where exactly is the rule that states that? No rule... no dice. I hate to pull the RAW (rules as written) card, but there it is.

The old model is of the same name and legitimately produced by the same company that created and maintains the rules of the game. It ticks all the boxes. It was fielded and perfectly valid before the new model was released, so unless there is a written rule that explicitly forbids it, it is fair game.

Imagine spending good money on the old model, lovingly painting it up and building an army around it only to have some neckbeard tell you that you can't play it because the new model was released just a little while ago. I'd tell him to happily move along and find a new table to play at. Then again, as I said before, I wouldn't be playing AoS in the first place, so it's a moot point! :cool:
 
An idea occurred to me today. I want to get the Raptadons and see just how well the saurus riders would fit on them.
 
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Just A Skink said:
I don't think the new Slann sculpt is that bad, but I'm not a fan of the legs/feet. However, I know how much you like the current Slann model, so I get it.
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The legs and feet are what bugs me the most. Of course this is only based on the few pictures that we've been shown. Maybe seeing the model in person will change my mind. Either way, I think GW did a much better job on the palanquin than on the Slann itself... which is how I felt about the new Kroak model too.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
And where exactly is the rule that states that? No rule... no dice. I hate to pull the RAW (rules as written) card, but there it is.
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You are absolutely right.
The official rule (well, a faq) for events at warhammer world state that any old model must use a base of the same size of the current model, and for any discrepancy about the size of old vs current model (regarding things as line of sight), you should be "flexible".
Basically, you can use the old metal Karl Franz model as the current general on griffon, but you cannot pretend to hide it behind a small scenery, because the current one wouldn't be able to hide.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
And where exactly is the rule that states that? No rule... no dice. I hate to pull the RAW (rules as written) card, but there it is.

The old model is of the same name and legitimately produced by the same company that created and maintains the rules of the game. It ticks all the boxes. It was fielded and perfectly valid before the new model was released, so unless there is a written rule that explicitly forbids it, it is fair game.

Imagine spending good money on the old model, lovingly painting it up and building an army around it only to have some neckbeard tell you that you can't play it because the new model was released just a little while ago. I'd tell him to happily move along and find a new table to play at. Then again, as I said before, I wouldn't be playing AoS in the first place, so it's a moot point! :cool:
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There's a F.A.Q. or something somewhere regarding "official" games where they discuss old models & kitbashed/altered models.
Essentially the gist of it is what @Killer Angel said, in principle you're allowed to use it provided it doesn't give any advantages. So it needs to have the same base-size, you can't do things like change it's pose so it gets a smaller profile and can hide behind a tree or something. Things like that.

In general it isn't much of an issue, Kroak is just one of the few examples where the new model is literally twice as big as the old model, and thus makes the old model invalid.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
And where exactly is the rule that states that? No rule... no dice. I hate to pull the RAW (rules as written) card, but there it is.

The old model is of the same name and legitimately produced by the same company that created and maintains the rules of the game. It ticks all the boxes. It was fielded and perfectly valid before the new model was released, so unless there is a written rule that explicitly forbids it, it is fair game.

Imagine spending good money on the old model, lovingly painting it up and building an army around it only to have some neckbeard tell you that you can't play it because the new model was released just a little while ago. I'd tell him to happily move along and find a new table to play at. Then again, as I said before, I wouldn't be playing AoS in the first place, so it's a moot point! :cool:
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As a general rule, if anyone has any problem with any of the models I want to use I don't play with them. Not because they may be necessarily wrong, but because I wouldn't enjoy the game as much.

Also, if anyone is going to get upset at easier cover, when "he looks like he's in cover but let's agree he's not" is a very easy thing to say, then playing with them is not worth it IMO, but because I do not enjoy playing like that (which would be called competitive).

I do see the point of size matters, but again, what I just said :)
 
Killer Angel said:
The official rule (well, a faq) for events at warhammer world state
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Just to be clear, is this FAQ specifically for events at Warhammer World? If so, then they have no bearing on any games outside of that context. They can be used as a guide outside of that very specific venue, but ultimately hold no bearing. Can anyone quote an official AoS mainline FAQ of such a rule? Does such rule exist within AoS' main rules/faq?

Canas said:
Essentially the gist of it is what @Killer Angel said
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Canas said:
In general it isn't much of an issue, Kroak is just one of the few examples where the new model is literally twice as big as the old model, and thus makes the old model invalid.
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Your conclusion that the old Kroak model is invalid seems to be in direct opposition to what @Killer Angel stated (even after you admitted that what he said was essentially the gist of it). I'm starting to get the sense that you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

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Basically what he said boils down to the old Kroak model being perfectly legal* so long as you:
  • place it on a base size matching that of the current model
  • don't claim that it is hidden behind terrain that wouldn't block line of sight to the larger current sculpt
*in the context of a game played at a Warhammer World event. Outside of such an event, unless someone can present further evidence, the old Kroak model would not only be legal, but it would be legal without any sort of additional stipulations.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Just to be clear, is this FAQ specifically for events at Warhammer World? If so, then they have no bearing on any games outside of that context. They can be used as a guide outside of that very specific venue, but ultimately hold no bearing.
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Well, you're right, but when GW takes an official stand on something in one event, usually it's good for any official tournament from that point, unless specified otherwise.

I've also found the rules for GW grand tournament series, which is 40k but gives an idea of GW's stand on the matter: as usual, the base must be the current one... but that said you can modify your model, but you cannot take advantages, and at most you will have only disadvantages.
Example: if your actual model is taller than the regular one and is behind a scenery and the opponent can see you, you still don’t gain LoS. (Which is imo both silly and excessively harsh, but that's GW)
 
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NIGHTBRINGER said:
Your conclusion that the old Kroak model is invalid seems to be in direct opposition to what @Killer Angel stated (even after you admitted that what he said was essentially the gist of it). I'm starting to get the sense that you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

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Basically what he said boils down to the old Kroak model being perfectly legal* so long as you:
  • place it on a base size matching that of the current model
  • don't claim that it is hidden behind terrain that wouldn't block line of sight to the larger current sculpt
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The issue is mainly the second point. If there's a large difference between the current model and the old model, like with Kroak, it becomes difficult to gauge if it is really hidden or not when someone is using the old model. Sure, noone's going to claim the new Kroak model can hide behind a small bush, but what is the minimum height of wall it'd need to be hidden behind a wall? Is a 10cm tall wall hiding it? 15? 14? 16? It's a bit difficult to tell without the actual model.

When size differences become this extreme, you're better of just using the current model (or at least a more suitable proxy), makes life easier for everyone involved and avoids pointless discussions. Just using the correct base size is simply not going to be clear enough in these cases.
In contrast, the new slann is probably similar enough in size that simply putting it on the new base is sufficient in 99% of cases. Especially as it is about as wide as the base, so you still have an easy point of reference, even without the proper model.

NIGHTBRINGER said:
*in the context of a game played at a Warhammer World event. Outside of such an event, unless someone can present further evidence, the old Kroak model would not only be legal, but it would be legal without any sort of additional stipulations.
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I mean, outside of official events you can do whatever you like anyway :p

Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
Who else thinks this is a direct plastic upgrade of the spherical mace one of the Kroxigors is holding?

Plastic Kroxigors here we come!
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Honestly, I'd be extremely surprised if it's not. The only thing that worries me is that it's a rumour engine from like 3 days ago, generally speaking it takes a while before rumour engines become actual units. So this either means our update is still quite far away, or it's getting some weird staggered release schedule.
 
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