AoS Alternative Army Building: Composition Limitations

[Dread Saurian]

I've always liked this kind thematic structure in games. The biggest issue with AoS is that as soon as you add any form of list building mechanic in, it gets messy really quickly! There is also a huge leaning towards legitimising what my local group classes as "daft" lists - like an army composed entirely of bloodthirsters... I've no issue with lists like that when playing as a friendly, but it drives me nuts to see it at tournaments and events.

Back on track though! I'm liking the thinking above, my main gripe would be there's too many options. Streamlining to 5th ed concept (Lord, Hero, Core, Special, Rare - perhaps combining Lord & Hero and adding Behemoth) should be enough to control lists. Some units could change from Special to Core (aka battleline if) and some could have additional limitations (no more than X per Y points). You could even have some units that could be either Special OR Rare for example

I got a question. Why is it daft to have the bloodthirster battallion? Isn't that like skarbrands battallion? They are gimmicky I get that outrageous carnage just doing work vs hordes is annoying to handle. But why is it daft?

 

[RuneBrush]

I got a question. Why is it daft to have the bloodthirster battallion? Isn't that like skarbrands battallion? They are gimmicky I get that outrageous carnage just doing work vs hordes is annoying to handle. But why is it daft?

From a narrative perspective I completely agree that they're great fun to play with, being able to have Skarbrand and his entourage wreaking havoc for the Blood God would be a great game. That said, unless your opponent knows this is what you're bringing, you risk giving them a miserable game where they may not have the tools necessary to do anything - don't get me wrong, I want to win games, but I also don't want to be "that" guy that nobody wants to play against because I bring (from their perspective) horrible armies.

With regards to organised events, the whole purpose of matched play was that the two armies should be broadly matched against each other. I'm not entirely convinced that an army made entirely of blood thirsters/lords of change/etc should fit into this style of gaming. Narrative and Open play exist to allow us to go wild.

 

[Dread Saurian]

From a narrative perspective I completely agree that they're great fun to play with, being able to have Skarbrand and his entourage wreaking havoc for the Blood God would be a great game. That said, unless your opponent knows this is what you're bringing, you risk giving them a miserable game where they may not have the tools necessary to do anything - don't get me wrong, I want to win games, but I also don't want to be "that" guy that nobody wants to play against because I bring (from their perspective) horrible armies.

With regards to organised events, the whole purpose of matched play was that the two armies should be broadly matched against each other. I'm not entirely convinced that an army made entirely of blood thirsters/lords of change/etc should fit into this style of gaming. Narrative and Open play exist to allow us to go wild.

Skarbrands battallion isn't even the most competitive battallion in narrative. that's where ya lost me. In tournaments it doesn't do the greatest Against soB, stormcast, lrl, ogors, and seraphon. What are you talking about?
I never kept up with khorne diligently in aos but I know it isn't that great at this time.

 

[RuneBrush]

Skarbrands battallion isn't even the most competitive battallion in narrative. that's where ya lost me. In tournaments it doesn't do the greatest Against soB, stormcast, lrl, ogors, and seraphon. What are you talking about?
I never kept up with khorne diligently in aos but I know it isn't that great at this time.

I think we've gone majorly off at a tangent here. I was talking in general about "daft" armies (local groups term) that basically consist of one or two units repeated over and over again - specifically behemoth level units. I gave the example of the bloodthirster army as it was the first one that game to mind - it equally applies to an army that contains only dragons, or only mega gargants. I personally don't like to see this type of army composition in organised events as even in the most competitive setting I feel there should be some narrative to an army - it's meant to be AoS after all.

I wasn't specifically focused on if an army of bloodthirsters was good on the table top.

 

[Dread Saurian]

I think we've gone majorly off at a tangent here. I was talking in general about "daft" armies (local groups term) that basically consist of one or two units repeated over and over again - specifically behemoth level units. I gave the example of the bloodthirster army as it was the first one that game to mind - it equally applies to an army that contains only dragons, or only mega gargants. I personally don't like to see this type of army composition in organised events as even in the most competitive setting I feel there should be some narrative to an army - it's meant to be AoS after all.

I wasn't specifically focused on if an army of bloodthirsters was good on the table top.

This is the kind of clarification my ass needs

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Soulblight Gravelords

Characters: all SOULBLIGHT GRAVELORDS HERO units.
Infantry: Deadwalker Zombies, Deathrattle Skeletons, Grave Guard
Cavalry: Black Knights, Blood Knights
Skirmishers: Dire Wolves, Fell Bats
Support: Vargheists, all CORPSE CART units
Monsters: all SOULBLIGHT GRAVELORDS MONSTER units
War Machines: Coven Throne, Mortis Engine, Palanquin of Blood
Allies: all FLESH-EATER COURTS and NIGHTHAUNT units.

Limitations:

• You may not have more Grave Guard units in the army than you have Deathrattle Skeletons units
• No Grave Guard unit may have more figures than the smallest Deathrattle Skeletons unit
• You may not have more Blood Knights units in the army than you have Black Knights units
  
• No Blood Knights unit may have more figures than the smallest Black Knights unit
• The total number of wounds invested in Support units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Skirmisher units

Like Ogor Mawtribes, Soulblight Gravelords are another hero-heavy faction, which is just as well given their critical reliance on heroes to hold their undead minions together. Suffice to say that you can expect the limitation cap on heroes to never drop below 33%.

Legion of Blood
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 750pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: You may not have more DEADWALKER units in a Legion of Blood army than you have DEATHRATTLE units.

Legion of Night
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry: Up to 33%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 750pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Vyrkos Dynasty
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 33%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Who knew that wolves would be a running theme?

Kastelai Dynasty
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: Up to 25%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry: At least 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Heavily armoured and mobile, Kastelai may as well be the undead Bretonnian sub-faction for Soulblight. Their capacity to outflank is limited in comparison to the Legion of Night, but their ability to muster more Blood Knights into their roster makes up for this.

Avengorii Dynasty
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 500pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Much like with Ogors and their really expensive monsters, Soulblight currently pay a considerable amount of points each for Terrorgeists (305pts/unit) and Zombie Dragons (295pts/unit). Thus, anything less than a 45% point cap on Monsters would be at best no different than limiting them to 1 per 1000pts.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Slaves to Darkness

Characters: all SLAVES TO DARKNESS HERO units.
Infantry: Chaos Marauders, Chaos Warriors, Chaos Chosen
Skirmishers: all CULTISTS units, Furies, Raptoryx
Support Infantry: Slaves to Darkness Chaos Spawn
Cavalry: Chaos Knights, Chaos Marauder Horsemen, Varanguard
Chariots: Chaos Chariots, Gorebeast Chariots
Monsters: all SLAVES TO DARKNESS MONSTER units
Allies: all BEASTS OF CHAOS, BLADES OF KHORNE, MAGGOTKIN OF NURGLE, HEDONITES OF SLAANESH and DISCIPLES OF TZEENTCH units.

Limitations:

• You may not have more Chaos Chosen units in the army than you have Chaos Warriors units
• No Chaos Chosen unit may have more figures than the smallest Chaos Warriors unit
• You may not have more Gorebeast Chariots units in the army than you have Chaos Chariots units
• No Gorebeast Chariots unit may have more figures than the smallest Chaos Chariots unit
• If Archaon is not the army's warlord, you may not have more Varanguard units in the army than you have Chaos Knights units
• If Archaon is not the army's warlord, No Varanguard unit may have more figures than the smallest Chaos Knights unit
• The total number of wounds invested in Chariot units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Cavalry unit
  
• The total number of wounds invested in Support units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Skirmisher unit

Options:

• CULTISTS units given a MARK OF CHAOS count as Infantry instead of Skirmishers

Ravagers
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: The warlord of a Ravagers army may not be a DAEMON PRINCE.

Cabalists
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: The warlord of a Cabalists army must be a WIZARD.

Despoilers
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 500pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: The warlord of a Despoilers army must be a DAEMON PRINCE.

Host of the Everchosen
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: Up to 50%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: At least 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: The warlord of a Host of the Everchosen must have either the EVERCHOSEN, CHAOS LORD, or CHAOS SORCEROR LORD keywords.

This was a bit of an exercise in what to do if the main rules for the sub-faction only come into their own when the army's general is a unique 800pt unit. Personally, I don't see Archaon being worth taking in games less than 3000pts, but that alone shouldn't impede someone from wanting to play a cavalry army with Slaves to Darkness. As such, the idea here is that the Everchosen doesn't have the time nor care to personally handle skirmishes, so instead he leaves such frivolous matters to his underlings instead.

Idolators
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: Up to 50%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: At least 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: Up to one CHAOS CHARIOTS or GOREBEAST CHARIOTS unit comprised of only one figure may be included as an IDOLATOR LORD and count as a Character instead of a Chariot. An Idolators army must include at least one PRIEST.

Knights of the Empty Throne
Characters: Up to 50%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers and Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: If Archaon is not the army's warlord, Varanguard units count as Characters instead of as Cavalry. All other limitations on Varanguard units do not apply in a Knights of the Empty Throne army.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Daughters of Khaine

Characters: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE HERO units.
Infantry: Sisters of Slaughter, Witch Aelves
Cavalry: Doomfire Warlocks
Skirmishers: All KHINERAI HARPIES and MELUSAI units without the HERO keyword
Monsters: Avatar of Khaine, all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE MONSTER units
War Machines: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE WAR MACHINE units
Allies: all CITIES OF SIGMAR and IDONETH DEEPKIN units.

Limitations:

• You may not have more Sisters of Slaughter units in the army than you have Witch Aelves units
• No Sisters of Slaughter unit may have more figures than the smallest Witch Aelves unit
• You may not have more Blood Stalkers units in the army than you have Blood Sisters units
• No Blood Stalkers unit may have more figures than the smallest Blood Sisters unit
• You may not have more Khinerai Heartrenders units in the army than you have Khinerai Lifetakers units
• No Khinerai Heartrenders unit may have more figures than the smallest Khinerai Lifetakers unit
• The total number of wounds invested in Support units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Skirmisher unit

While the unit variety may leave much to be desired, it's honestly what I'd expect out of an army that is more at home skirmishing than it is in a stand-up fight.

Hagg Nar
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: A Hagg Nar army may include one Avatar of Khaine in addition to any Monsters it can normally take.

Draichi Ganeth
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers: Up to 20%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 750pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: A Draichi Ganeth army must contain at least one SLAUGHTER QUEEN.

The Kraith
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers: Up to 20%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 750pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: A Kraith army must contain at least one SLAUGHTER QUEEN.

There's not really much to mention. Draichi Ganeth and the Kraith both emphasize bands of Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter supported by Slaughter Queens, making them little different from one another composition-wise. Their differences however arise in the special rules for each sub-faction, effectively making the decision between the two a matter of how you want to use the same units.

Khailebron
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers: Up to 25%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 750pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: Blood Sisters in a Khailebron army count as Infantry instead of Skirmishers. No more than 50% of all Infantry units in a Khailebron army may have the MELUSAI keyword.

As the first listed sub-faction to emphasize the Scáthborn (Melusai and Khinerai), it was a toss-up to either make all non-hero Melusai units Infantry or to make all Khinerai units Support. I opted to go with a modification to the former.

Khelt Nar
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers: Up to 25%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: Khinerai Lifetakers in a Khelt Nar army count as Infantry instead of Skirmishers. No more than 50% of all Infantry units in a Khelt Nar army may have the KHINERAI HARPIES keyword.

Composition-wise, Khelt Nar is the Khinerai counterpart to Khailebron. The same question of what to do regarding Melusai in Khailebron applied here.

Zainthar Kai
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 33%
Cavalry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 750pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: Blood Sisters and Khinerai Lifetakers count as Infantry instead of as Skirmishers. Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughter count as Support instead of as Infantry. A Zainthar Kai army must include at least one MELUSAI HERO.

Zainthar Kai is... unique, to say the least, being predominantly Scáthborn and something of a reversal of a typical Daughters of Khaine army. I may have to revisit this one at a later date, because I don't think the additional limitation provided is the most elegant means of conveying that information. If anything, this might just be a case where I have to come up with a separate unit classification set specifically for Zainthar Kai.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Stormcast Eternals (Part 1)

Remember when I said that Tzeentch was complicated as all hell to figure out for this?

Turns out that Stormcast are kind of worse.

Even before getting to categorizing its general unit roster, we need to factor in whether it's a self-contained Stormhost or if it's got Cities of Sigmar coalition units as a Stormkeep army.

Given that I'll need to have a Stormcast-only roster done so that I can map out Hammerhal at the very least for the first City of Sigmar, I'll stick with the Stormhost for now.

Stormhost
Characters: all STORMCAST ETERNAL HERO units.
Infantry: Judicators, all REDEEMER units without the HERO keyword
Cavalry & Chariots: Vanguard-Palladors, all DRACOLINE and DRACOTHIAN GUARD units without the HERO keyword
Chariots: Stormstrike Chariot
Skirmishers: Aetherwings, Castigators, Gryph-Hounds, Vanguard-Hunters, Vigilors, all PROSECUTORS units without the HERO keyword
Support Infantry: Evocators, Praetors, all PALADIN and VANGUARD-RAPTORS units without the HERO keyword
Monsters: all STORMCAST ETERNAL MONSTER units
War Machines: all STORMCAST ETERNAL WAR MACHINE units
Allies: all CITIES OF SIGMAR, FYRESLAYERS, IDONETH DEEPKIN, KHARADRON OVERLORDS, LUMINETH REALM-LORDS, SERAPHON, and SYLVANETH units.

Limitations:

• You may not have more Judicator units with Skybolt Bows in the army than you have Judicator units with Boltstorm Crossbows.
  
• No Judicator unit with Skybolt Bows may have more figures than the smallest Judicator unit with Boltstorm Crossbows.
• You may not have more Prosecutor units with Stormcall Javelins in the army than you have Prosecutor units with Celestial Hammers
  
• No Prosecutor unit with Stormcall Javelins may have more figures than the smallest Prosecutor unit with Celestial Hammers
• You may not have more Vanguard-Raptors units with Longstrike Crossbows in the army than you have Vanguard-Raptors units with Hurricane Crossbows
• No Vanguard-Raptors unit with Longstrike Crossbows may have more figures than the smallest Vanguard-Raptors unit with Hurricane Crossbows
• The total number of wounds invested in Chariot units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Cavalry units
  
• The total number of wounds invested in Support units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Skirmisher units

Options

• If the army's warlord has the DRACONITH or STARDRAKE keywords, the army may include one Stormdrake Guard unit in addition to any Monsters it can normally take.
• If the army's warlord has the KNIGHT-JUDICATOR keyword, Vigilors count as Infantry instead of Skirmishers.

Yeah... this is going to be a mess, no matter how one looks at it.

Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Astral Templars
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: Up to 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: At least 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: At least 50% each of all Cavalry and Skirmisher units in an Astral Templars army must be VANGUARD

Celestial Vindicators
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Oh, how tempting it was to suggest a potential Celestial Vindicators player to ensure that at least half of their units were equipped with swords or blades...

Celestial Warbringers
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 33%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: At least 50% each of all units in a Celestial Warbringers army must be SACROSANCT

It's kind of without surprise that, between the colour scheme, the mystical divinations, and the extensive use of their Sacrosanct Chambers according to their lore, the Celestial Warbringers are kind of the closest thing that Age of Sigmar has to loyalist Thousand Sons.

Hallowed Knights
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Hammers of Sigmar
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 50%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: At least 50% of all Cavalry units in a Hammers of Sigmar army must be DRACOTHIAN GUARD

Knights Excelsior
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: all PALADIN units without the HERO keyword count as Infantry instead of Support in a Knights Excelsior army. No more than 50% of all Infantry units in a Knights Excelsior army may be PALADIN.

Tempest Lords
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 50%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: At least 50% of all Skirmisher units in a Tempest Lords army must be PROSECUTORS.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

And now on to one of the most annoyingly bloated factions in the game: Cities of Sigmar.

For a basic groundwork, I will be establishing what counts as what and then focus on individual Cities.

Characters: all CITIES OF SIGMAR HERO units
Infantry: Bleakswords, Dreadspears, Eternal Guard, Executioners, Ironbreakers, Irondrakes, Freeguild Greatswords, Freeguild Guard, Longbeards, Phoenix Guard
Cavalry Dark Riders, Demigryph Knights, Drakespawn Knights, Freeguild Outriders, Freeguild Pistoliers, Sisters of the Thorn, Wild Riders
Chariots: Drakespawn Chariots, Scourgerunner Chariots
Skirmishers: BLACK ARK CORSAIRS, Darkshards, Freeguild Handgunners, Freeguild Crossbowmen, Shadow Warriors, Wildwood Rangers
Support Infantry: Black Guard, Flagellants, Hammerers, Sisters of the Watch
Monsters: All CITIES OF SIGMAR MONSTER units
War Machines: Celestial Hurricanum, Luminark of Hysh, all CITIES OF SIGMAR WAR MACHINE units

Limitations:

• You may not have more Black Guard units in the army than you have DARKLING COVEN HERO units.
• You may not have more Executioner units in the army than you have units of both Bleakswords and Dreadspears.
• No Executioner unit may have more figures than the smallest Bleakswords or Dreadspears unit.
• If the army's warlord does not have the FREEGUILD keyword, you may not have more Freeguild Greatswords units in the army than you have Freeguild Guard units.
• If the army's warlord does not have the FREEGUILD keyword, no Freeguild Greatswords unit may have more figures than the smallest Freeguild Guard unit.
• You may not have more Freeguild Pistoliers units in the army than you have Freeguild Outriders units.
• No Freeguild Pistoliers unit may have more figures than the smallest Freeguild Outriders unit.
• You may not have more Freeguild Handgunners units in the army than you have Freeguild Crossbowmen units.
• No Freeguild Handgunners unit may have more figures than the smallest Freeguild Crossbowmen unit.
• You may not have more Hammerer units in the army than you have DISPOSSESSED HERO units.
• You may not have more Longbeards units in the army than you have units of both Ironbreakers and Irondrakes.
• No Longbeards unit may have more figures than the smallest Ironbreakers or Irondrakes unit.
• If the army's warlord does not have the DUARDIN keyword, you may not have more Irondrakes units in the army than you have Ironbreakers units.
• If the army's warlord does not have the DUARDIN keyword, no Irondrakes unit may have more figures than the smallest Ironbreakers unit.
• You may not have more Phoenix Guard units in the army than you have PHOENIX TEMPLE HERO units.
• You may not have more Gyrobombers units in the army than you have Gyrocopters units.
• No Gyrobombers unit may have more figures than the smallest Gyrocopters unit.
• The total number of wounds invested in Chariot units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Cavalry units
  
• The total number of wounds invested in Support units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Skirmisher units

Options:

• If the army's warlord has the DARKLING COVEN keyword, Black Guard count as Infantry instead of Support.
• If the army's warlord has the DISPOSSESSED keyword, Hammerers count as Infantry instead of Support.
• If the army's warlord has the FREEGUILD keyword, the army may include one Demigryph Knights unit in addition to any Cavalry it can normally take.
• If the army's warlord has the HUMAN keyword, Flagellants count as Infantry instead of Support.
• If the army's warlord has the ORDER SERPENTIS keyword, the army may include one Drakespawn Chariots unit and one Drakespawn Knights unit in addition to any Cavalry it can normally take.
• If the army's warlord has the PHOENIX TEMPLE keyword, Phoenix Guard count as Infantry instead of Support.
• If the army's warlord has the SCOURGE PRIVATEERS keyword, Black Ark Corsairs with Wicked Cutlasses count as Infantry instead of Skirmishers, and the army may include one Scourgerunner Chariots unit in addition to any Cavalry it can normally take.
• If the army's warlord has the SHADOWBLADES keyword, Shadow Warriors count as Infantry instead of Skirmishers, and the army may include one Dark Riders unit in addition to any Cavalry it can normally take.
• If the army's warlord has the STEAM TANK keyword, the army may include one Steam Tank unit in addition to any War Machines it can normally take.
• If the army's warlord has the WANDERER keyword, Wildwood Rangers count as Infantry instead of Skirmishers, Sisters of the Watch count as Skirmishers instead of Support, and the army may include one Sisters of the Thorn unit in addition to any Cavalry it can normally take.

"A bit of a doozy" is putting it lightly. All the more reason for me to simply refer back to this without having to copy-paste everything. Likewise with any unit types that come from other armies, since Cities of Sigmar have a lot of subfactions (Cities) that make use of Coalition units.

Cities of Sigmar: Hammerhal

Suffice to say that treating the Cities of Sigmar as one and the same would be a massive mistake, even if they all can pull units out from the same book. A lot of this comes down to associations, who's all present in each of the cities, and which internal groups wield more influence than others. Hammerhal's own shtick of being the most cosmopolitan of the Cities is going to be in full force here, compared to the Living City's Sylvan(eth) influences or Greywater Fastness' industrial focus in Duardin hands.

With that said, given the vast range of units available to both Stormcast Eternals and Cities of Sigmar, I will merely be referencing the Stormhost unit roster where relevant instead of repeating myself here.

Characters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Characters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Characters
Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Infantry
Cavalry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Cavalry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Cavalry
Chariots: CITIES OF SIGMAR Chariots, STORMCAST ETERNAL Chariots
Skirmishers: CITIES OF SIGMAR Skirmishers, STORMCAST ETERNAL Skirmishers
Support Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Support Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Support Infantry
Monsters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Monsters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Monsters
War Machines: CITIES OF SIGMAR War Machines, STORMCAST ETERNAL War Machines
Allies: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, FYRESLAYERS, IDONETH DEEPKIN, KHARADRON OVERLORDS, and SYLVANETH units.

Limitations:

• No more than 25% of all units in a Hammerhal army may be STORMCAST ETERNAL

Hammerhal army composition
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Sylvaneth

Characters: all SYLVANETH HERO units.
Infantry: Tree-Revenants
Skirmishers: Dryads
Support: Spite-Revenants, all KURNOTH HUNTERS units
Monsters: all SYLVANETH MONSTER units
Allies: all IDONETH DEEPKIN and STORMCAST ETERNAL units.

Limitations:

• You may not have more KURNOTH HUNTERS units with Kurnoth Greatbows in the army than you have KURNOTH HUNTERS units with Kurnoth Greatswords or Kurnoth Scythes
• No KURNOTH HUNTERS unit with Kurnoth Greatbows may have more figures than the smallest KURNOTH HUNTERS unit with Kurnoth Greatswords or Kurnoth Scythes.
• The total number of wounds invested in Support units may not exceed the total number of wounds invested in Skirmisher units

Limited unit selection, but one that'll work.

Oakenbrow
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 50%
Monsters: 1 per 500pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Gnarlroot
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: The warlord of a Gnarlroot army must be a WIZARD.

Heartwood
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Scythes count as Infantry instead of Support in a Heartwood army. A Heartwood army must include at least one ARCH-REVENANT.

Ironbark
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: all DISPOSSESSED and FYRESLAYERS units may be taken as Allies.

Winterleaf
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 33%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

Dreadwood
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 50%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: Spite-Revenants count as Infantry instead of Support in a Dreadwood army.

Harvestboon
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 33%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: A Harvestboon army must include at least one BRANCHWRAITH

After the nightmare that was Stormcast and Hammerhal, this was probably easier to work on than even the Seraphon composition.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Cities of Sigmar: The Living City

Given how quickly I got through Sylvaneth, doing the Living City will be a nice segue.

Characters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Characters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Characters, SYLVANETH Characters
Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Infantry, SYLVANETH Infantry
Skirmishers: CITIES OF SIGMAR Skirmishers, STORMCAST ETERNAL Skirmishers, SYLVANETH Skirmishers
Support Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Support Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Support Infantry, SYLVANETH Support Infantry
Cavalry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Cavalry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Cavalry
Chariots: CITIES OF SIGMAR Chariots, STORMCAST ETERNAL Chariots
Monsters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Monsters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Monsters, SYLVANETH Monsters
War Machines: CITIES OF SIGMAR War Machines, STORMCAST ETERNAL War Machines
Allies: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, FYRESLAYERS, IDONETH DEEPKIN, and KHARADRON OVERLORDS units.

Limitations:

• No more than 25% of all units in a Living City army may be STORMCAST ETERNAL
• No more than 25% of all units in a Living City army may be SYLVANETH
• At least 50% of all units in a Living City army must be FREEGUILD or WANDERER

Lorewise, the Living City's Viridian Shield consists almost exclusively of Freeguild, Stormcast, Sylvaneth, and Wanderer elements as a unified force.

Living City army composition
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 33%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 750pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Cities of Sigmar: Greywater Fastness

Anyway, enough of Aelves and Sylvan fey for now. How about some Duardin?

Characters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Characters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Characters
Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Infantry
Skirmishers: CITIES OF SIGMAR Skirmishers, STORMCAST ETERNAL Skirmishers
Support Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Support Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Support Infantry
Cavalry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Cavalry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Cavalry
Chariots: CITIES OF SIGMAR Chariots, STORMCAST ETERNAL Chariots
Monsters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Monsters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Monsters
War Machines: CITIES OF SIGMAR War Machines, STORMCAST ETERNAL War Machines
Allies: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, FYRESLAYERS, IDONETH DEEPKIN, and KHARADRON OVERLORDS units.

Limitations:

• No more than 25% of all units in a Greywater Fastness army may be STORMCAST ETERNAL
• At least 50% of all units in a Greywater Fastness army must be DISPOSSESSED or IRONWELD ARSENAL

Greywater Fastness army composition
Characters: Up to 25%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 500pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Cities of Sigmar: Phoenicium

Bah, back to Aelves, this time with a City whose army consists almost entirely of them if the lore is to be believed.

Characters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Characters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Characters
Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Infantry
Skirmishers: CITIES OF SIGMAR Skirmishers, STORMCAST ETERNAL Skirmishers
Support Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Support Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Support Infantry
Cavalry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Cavalry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Cavalry
Chariots: CITIES OF SIGMAR Chariots, STORMCAST ETERNAL Chariots
Monsters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Monsters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Monsters
War Machines: CITIES OF SIGMAR War Machines, STORMCAST ETERNAL War Machines
Allies: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, FYRESLAYERS, IDONETH DEEPKIN, KHARADRON OVERLORDS, and SYLVANETH units.

Limitations:

• No more than 25% of all units in a Phoenicium army may be STORMCAST ETERNAL
• At least 50% of all units in a Phoenicium army must be PHOENIX TEMPLE
• A Phoenicium army may not include HUMAN or DUARDIN units.

Phoenicium may be the seat of power for the Phoenix Temple, but their unit selection is in such a sad sorry state that I only felt it acceptable to expand on it to include all AELF units available through Cities of Sigmar.

Phoenicium army composition
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 33%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 500pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: The warlord of a Phoenicium army must have the PHOENIX TEMPLE keyword. Unit restrictions on Phoenix Guard units do not apply in a Phoenicium army.

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Cities of Sigmar: Anvilgard

More Aelves...

Characters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Characters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Characters
Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Infantry
Skirmishers: CITIES OF SIGMAR Skirmishers, STORMCAST ETERNAL Skirmishers
Support Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Support Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Support Infantry
Cavalry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Cavalry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Cavalry
Chariots: CITIES OF SIGMAR Chariots, STORMCAST ETERNAL Chariots
Monsters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Monsters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Monsters
War Machines: CITIES OF SIGMAR War Machines, STORMCAST ETERNAL War Machines
Allies: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, FYRESLAYERS, IDONETH DEEPKIN, KHARADRON OVERLORDS, and SYLVANETH units.

Limitations:

• No more than 25% of all units in an Anvilgard army may be STORMCAST ETERNAL
• At least 50% of all units in an Anvilgard army must be DARKLING COVEN, SCOURGE PRIVATEERS, or SHADOWBLADES.

Another monster-heavy focus, this time with more of a "Wretched hive of scum and villainy" vibe. An apt way of putting Anvilgard is that it's a gloomy haven for pirates of all kinds, which explains the presence of Freeguild, Dispossessed, and Ironweld Arsenal units in addition to the sketchy aelf trifecta of Darkling Coven, Order Serpentis, and the Scourge Privateers predominantly running the show.

Anvilgard army composition
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 33%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 500pts
War Machines: 1 per 1000pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Cities of Sigmar: Hallowheart


Characters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Characters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Characters
Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Infantry
Skirmishers: CITIES OF SIGMAR Skirmishers, STORMCAST ETERNAL Skirmishers
Support Infantry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Support Infantry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Support Infantry
Cavalry: CITIES OF SIGMAR Cavalry, STORMCAST ETERNAL Cavalry
Chariots: CITIES OF SIGMAR Chariots, STORMCAST ETERNAL Chariots
Monsters: CITIES OF SIGMAR Monsters, STORMCAST ETERNAL Monsters
War Machines: CITIES OF SIGMAR War Machines, STORMCAST ETERNAL War Machines
Allies: all DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE, FYRESLAYERS, IDONETH DEEPKIN, KHARADRON OVERLORDS, and SYLVANETH units.

Limitations:

• No more than 25% of all units in a Hallowheart army may be STORMCAST ETERNAL
  
• At least 50% of all units in a Hallowheart army must be COLLEGIATE ARCANE or FREEGUILD
  
• If Allies are included in the army, at least 50% of such units must be FYRESLAYERS

Peculiarities drawn up from both lore and tabletop rules, Hallowheart is simultaneously a magic-oriented City as well as one that enjoys the company of local duardin - especially Fyreslayer mercenaries.

Hallowheart army composition
Characters: Up to 33%
Infantry: At least 25%
Skirmishers & Support Infantry: Up to 25%
Cavalry & Chariots: Up to 25%
Monsters: 1 per 1000pts
War Machines: 1 per 500pts
Allies & Mercenaries: Up to 20%
Additional: N/A

 

[Canas]

The distinctions you make between various factions are often a bit small.

For example, hallowheart is allowed 25% support & skirmish infantry while anvilguard is allowed 33%. That 7% difference is only going to give you 140 extra points of skirmishers in a 2000 point game. That's too little a difference to really matter as this is basicly just a 1 unit difference.

Aside from that I wouldn't work with percentages based on points, but with unit count in some capacity.
Point based limits give some funky scenarios when you have particularly expensive units (e.g. it's impossible to field Archaon with the limits you gave for StD, and the standard Kroak combo is also not really possible I think). Similarly it can create some weird scenarios when you want to take cheap units (e.g. if you want to bring skinks as your infantry you'd need to bring at least 70 skinks, just to reach the infantry limit).

To make reinforced units fair you can just count them per MSU. So say 30 saurus warriors counts the same regardless if you field them as 3x10 or 1x30, in both cases it counts as 3 units.

What might also be interesting would be to look into the system Lotr uses. You pick a hero, and that hero allows you to bring X followers, powerfull heroes get to bring more followers, and certain heroes can bring specific followers. AoS already has battalions, so fitting in a mechanic like this shouldn't be too difficult. And this can additionally be used to enforce specific combo's (e.g. you're only allowed to bring an artillery unit in a CoS army if you have a cogsmith or something), which can be used to remove certain bad interactions from the game (e.g. a full melee army supported by 1 OP artillery piece would not be possible in this system). Honestly, battalions have so much potential to solve things without being too complicated. Simply adding rules like "you need X core battalions" and "only half your battalions can be artillery battalions" could solve so much.

And lastly; I really like the notion of "you can't have more <elite unit> than <basic unit>" like the stormvermin & clanrats. Using rules like this should do a lot to counter the armies that just spam 1 powerfull unit. Though I do fear that in the current setup it might simply be too much bookkeeping to become possible (again, working with battalions instead of individual units could possibly solve that)

 

[ChapterAquila92]

The distinctions you make between various factions are often a bit small.

For example, hallowheart is allowed 25% support & skirmish infantry while anvilguard is allowed 33%. That 7% difference is only going to give you 140 extra points of skirmishers in a 2000 point game. That's too little a difference to really matter as this is basicly just a 1 unit difference.

Point taken, and I'm likely going to be going back over composition allowances at a later date.

Aside from that I wouldn't work with percentages based on points, but with unit count in some capacity.
[...]
To make reinforced units fair you can just count them per MSU. So say 30 saurus warriors counts the same regardless if you field them as 3x10 or 1x30, in both cases it counts as 3 units.

It's debatable. Even after accounting for reinforced units, unit count doesn't really scale well as a means of unit composition at any given battle size. It's also more bookkeeping for coalition armies like Cities of Sigmar, who also have to keep track of how many units in their army are otherwise not native to their own battletome.

Point based limits give some funky scenarios when you have particularly expensive units (e.g. it's impossible to field Archaon with the limits you gave for StD, and the standard Kroak combo is also not really possible I think). Similarly it can create some weird scenarios when you want to take cheap units (e.g. if you want to bring skinks as your infantry you'd need to bring at least 70 skinks, just to reach the infantry limit).

There are arguments to be made regarding the inclusion or exclusion of really expensive units in a standard 2000pt game. Outside of exceptional circumstances like scenario games however, I'm personally not a fan of fielding units that take up more than a quarter of an army's budget, no matter how cool they may be as centerpiece models. It's for the same reason why, as much as some people gush about primarchs to an ungodly degree in Horus Heresy, it's actually quite rare for the models themselves to ever see tabletop use even in 3000pt games (especially considering that their ~500pt inclusion almost always comes with a 500-1000pt bodyguard tax even when the primarch doesn't count as a Lord of War).

What might also be interesting would be to look into the system Lotr uses. You pick a hero, and that hero allows you to bring X followers, powerfull heroes get to bring more followers, and certain heroes can bring specific followers.

That is very close to describing Path to Glory, which isn't what I was intending to replicate here.

AoS already has battalions, so fitting in a mechanic like this shouldn't be too difficult. And this can additionally be used to enforce specific combo's (e.g. you're only allowed to bring an artillery unit in a CoS army if you have a cogsmith or something), which can be used to remove certain bad interactions from the game (e.g. a full melee army supported by 1 OP artillery piece would not be possible in this system). Honestly, battalions have so much potential to solve things without being too complicated. Simply adding rules like "you need X core battalions" and "only half your battalions can be artillery battalions" could solve so much.

I'm not sure about you, but I'm not confident that the Battalion mechanic as it currently exists is adequate for the task at hand, even after being rendered "free" to use in listbuilding. I've never found them to be efficient enough for that purpose, and even if MSU equivalency is factored in they will still suffer from the same problems that formations in 6th Edition 40k had.

The only real solution I could give is to pay points for individual models instead of for MSU blocks, and that runs afoul of the bizarre point costs GW implements to "balance" the game for fun and profit.

And lastly; I really like the notion of "you can't have more <elite unit> than <basic unit>" like the stormvermin & clanrats. Using rules like this should do a lot to counter the armies that just spam 1 powerfull unit. Though I do fear that in the current setup it might simply be too much bookkeeping to become possible (again, working with battalions instead of individual units could possibly solve that)

I'll admit that writing up the unit limitations like this is more of a convenience to skirt around having to re-write every warscroll with their inclusion. For practicality, I'd sooner bake those unit limitations into the warscrolls themselves instead of making them part of the army-wide rules.

 

[Canas]

It's debatable. Even after accounting for reinforced units, unit count doesn't really scale well as a means of unit composition at any given battle size. It's also more bookkeeping for coalition armies like Cities of Sigmar, who also have to keep track of how many units in their army are otherwise not native to their own battletome.

Mwah, you can use the same general approach. E.g. at least 20% of your units need to be infantry. In terms of bookkeeping it'll be similar to keeping track of points. Probably a bit easier because you bringing say 3 skink units is a bit less annoying than needing to bring 200 points worth of skinks.

There are arguments to be made regarding the inclusion or exclusion of really expensive units in a standard 2000pt game. Outside of exceptional circumstances like scenario games however, I'm personally not a fan of fielding units that take up more than a quarter of an army's budget, no matter how cool they may be as centerpiece models. It's for the same reason why, as much as some people gush about primarchs to an ungodly degree in Horus Heresy, it's actually quite rare for the models themselves to ever see tabletop use even in 3000pt games (especially considering that their ~500pt inclusion almost always comes with a 500-1000pt bodyguard tax even when the primarch doesn't count as a Lord of War).

Fair enough, not a particular fan of the god-models myself. However, similar issues will exist for stuff like a stegadon with chief. That's already half your character budget gone. Which is kind of harsh when you're playing a synergy based army that relies on bringing multiple heroes.

It's kind of the inherent problem of making it point based. It's fine for the minor foot heroes that only cost 100-150 points, but the more expensive ones eat up a massive chunk of your budget like this. And while that will be fine for some armies that don't rely on heroes, it'll be very awkward for the ones that do.

That is very close to describing Path to Glory, which isn't what I was intending to replicate here.

I guess it is. It works well though

I'm not sure about you, but I'm not confident that the Battalion mechanic as it currently exists is adequate for the task at hand, even after being rendered "free" to use in listbuilding. I've never found them to be efficient enough for that purpose, and even if MSU equivalency is factored in they will still suffer from the same problems that formations in 6th Edition 40k had.

The only real solution I could give is to pay points for individual models instead of for MSU blocks, and that runs afoul of the bizarre point costs GW implements to "balance" the game for fun and profit.

O the battalions definitly need updating for this to work. I meant to suggest that we should use the battalion mechanic as the basis of a new & better framework. And I was lamenting that GW hasn't used battallions in a meaningfull way, which honestly is just kind of confusing. They should be a great tool for balancing, encourage collecting, serve as a clear starting point for new armies, easy to market. You'd think they'd take advantage of all that, but instead it's just some half-assed half-forgotten mechanic.

I'll admit that writing up the unit limitations like this is more of a convenience to skirt around having to re-write every warscroll with their inclusion. For practicality, I'd sooner bake those unit limitations into the warscrolls themselves instead of making them part of the army-wide rules.

Details

 

[ChapterAquila92]

Mwah, you can use the same general approach. E.g. at least 20% of your units need to be infantry. In terms of bookkeeping it'll be similar to keeping track of points. Probably a bit easier because you bringing say 3 skink units is a bit less annoying than needing to bring 230 points worth of skinks.

Except not really? Maybe it's just been part of the bad experience I had with Hail Caesar the one time I played it using my Britons, but I tend to find that game systems that define army composition by unit ratios (taken in blocks no less) tend to require more figurines overall, even when the focus of the game isn't on model count.

On top of that, basing army composition on how many of what kind of unit you take is also how you get issues like this:

No more than 25% of the army can be characters? You better have at least 3 units per hero to keep that number down.

Given that you absolutely need to have a warlord to field a viable army in AoS, and the fact that some factions require specific units (especially heroes) to pull them through a game, this would be even more crippling than it absolutely needs to be.

Fair enough, not a particular fan of the god-models myself. However, similar issues will exist for stuff like a stegadon with chief. That's already half your character budget gone. Which is kind of harsh when you're playing a synergy based army that relies on bringing multiple heroes.

It's kind of the inherent problem of making it point based. It's fine for the minor foot heroes that only cost 100-150 points, but the more expensive ones eat up a massive chunk of your budget like this. And while that will be fine for some armies that don't rely on heroes, it'll be very awkward for the ones that do.

That's generally why I've been assigning hero-heavy (be it points-wise or not) sub-factions higher caps on how many points they can spend on characters, and even then I would argue that you should be debating whether or not an expensive unit like the Stegadon Chief is worth taking over other options when list-building. This isn't anything new either - list-building articles on GW's website from 2004 had their authors mulling over the decision of wanting awesome models on the table vs having an effective tabletop army overall (incidentally, one of those articles was Lizardmen-related).

O the battalions definitely need updating for this to work. I meant to suggest that we should use the battalion mechanic as the basis of a new & better framework. And I was lamenting that GW hasn't used battalions in a meaningful way, which honestly is just kind of confusing. They should be a great tool for balancing, encourage collecting, serve as a clear starting point for new armies, easy to market. You'd think they'd take advantage of all that, but instead it's just some half-assed half-forgotten mechanic.

I'm fairly certain a big part of it is due to GW pigeonholing themselves into using the archaic system they've been using since Warhammer Fantasy without really giving much thought into unit roles within an army. By comparison, for all of my begrudging of the current state of the game, 40k at least provides roles and unit slots that are much better defined, with nothing to say of how the detachments system is objectively better than AoS's battalion warscrolls.