AoS Seraphon 3.0 - How should we build?

[PabloTho]

the reason you take the old blood is for damage imho, they hit like a bus

I think it took him being in a Sunclaw for extra jaw rend to make him really shine.

With his new point cost and no battalions the Vet is just better value.

 

[Lizerd]

damage difference is 4ish the reason you take him is because he is cool.

With or without blade of realties? IMHO that extra rend and damage against heroes is an auto include

 

[Erta Wanderer]

With or without blade of realties? IMHO that extra rend and damage against heroes is an auto include

without

 

[Lizerd]

Any other buffs you running? Also the faction makes a pretty huge difference

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Any other buffs you running? Also the faction makes a pretty huge difference

no buffs what so ever just flat model

 

[Lizerd]

That explains it, seraphon should not be used flat without any amount of support.

Atleast consider it with command abilities and buffs you frequently run

 

[NecridHydra]

@Tyranitar with Modifiers capped at +1 I really can't see a justification for the Oldblood to go up so much and the Scar Vet to stay more or less the same. I hope you're spot on about an errata - would be pretty great if he got a +1 attack CA but for Saurus (would mirror the Steg Chief quite nicely).

I dont think that erratas will save the day. Erratas don't have any modification to warscrolls, but GHB or Campaings do (like Broken Realms). Things being said, now with All Out Attack we don't ever need an Oldblood on Carnosaur. He had a point in TLSunclaw or DTSunclaw, but with battalions gone, I highly doubt we ever see him again.

 

[Nart]

I dont think that erratas will save the day. Erratas don't have any modification to warscrolls, but GHB or Campaings do (like Broken Realms). Things being said, now with All Out Attack we don't ever need an Oldblood on Carnosaur. He had a point in TLSunclaw or DTSunclaw, but with battalions gone, I highly doubt we ever see him again.

First day errata is an exception - when 2nd edition came, a whole lot of stuff has been changed, including warscrolls. I really don't see them changing Oldblood's CA or KC, but making Chemeleon's ability useful is what they have to do. Maybe, all shields will replace characteristics instead of giving +1 to-hit.

I won't expect complete overhauls, but warscrolls changing here and there is pretty possible.

 

[Tyranitar]

First day errata is an exception - when 2nd edition came, a whole lot of stuff has been changed, including warscrolls. I really don't see them changing Oldblood's CA or KC, but making Chemeleon's ability useful is what they have to do. Maybe, all shields will replace characteristics instead of giving +1 to-hit.

I won't expect complete overhauls, but warscrolls changing here and there is pretty possible.

I agree, this errata will certainly be an exception given how dramatically the game has changed. My buddy plays obr and without a big overhaul they are basically completely screwed without a new book. Imagine only being able to give one unit +3 movement per turn, or only using shield wall on one unit of mortek per combat, or having to choose between shieldwall or +1 attack. Brutal

 

[Killer Angel]

in the meantime...

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Anything that can avoid the sickeningly stupid Skink spam meta and still be competent...

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

I keep thinking about Saurus Warriors, as I am wont to do. Especially now that I've played a game with them in 3.0. And thinking about Saurus Warriors makes me think about the role they at least want to play.

Now that skinks are stuck at a 6+ save with +1 from shields, Saurus Warriors are really the closest thing we have to an anvil within our faction. Which is not saying much, but it's something we have to think about.

Guard can't be our defensive piece, they have a job to do and are honestly meant to die. Knights can't be a defensive piece, that's a waste of their abilities. Skinks can't be a defensive piece, their saves are far too weak now. Dinosaurs can't usually block and also can't hold objectives alone against even a couple of units, so they can't do it.

Are Saurus Warriors the best "Hold the Line" unit we have available to us for the points? Maybe and maybe not. I have a few thoughts that may or may not be worth a damn, ultimately.

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While Saurus Warriors may be the best "anvil" in our faction, we now have several options beyond our faction. The question is figuring out which one is best for the points. I'm only going to look at defensive capabilities.


Saurus (105p for 10): A 4+ save is alright, since we have easy ways now to make them 3+ and ignoring rend 1 or even 2. I think they're super underwhelming in Starborne now. Maybe not bad in Coalesced. Scaly Skin could go a long way if we're entering a hero/monster meta, as they almost all do multi-damage attacks.

Dreadspears (90p for 10): Barring Scaly Skin, basically equally as tough as Saurus for a hell of a lot cheaper.

Freeguild Guard (85p for 10): Save doesn't get better than 4+, but rerolls 1s. Super cheap though, and that matters.

Liberators (95p for 5): Starting at a 4+ save rerolling 1s instead of ending there. Definitely tougher than Saurus Warriors for the points, but fewer models to hold objectives with.

Sequitors (130p for 5): 4+ save rerolling everything is awesome. Especially with mystic shield and/or All Out Defense. A bit pricy and still only 5 models though. Dunno how to measure their toughness for the points compared to other stuff.

Eternal Guard (125 for 10): 4+ save on 10 models. And just for standing still in a turn they get +1 to hit, wound, and save. Which means every opponent turn unless you Redeploy them. Stacking mystic shield and all out defense would make them ignore a lot of rend, too. I kinda like these.

Phoenix Guard (175 for 10): 4+ save on 10 models. 4+++ Ward. The classic CoS anvil piece. Super tough, obviously. But that is an eye-watering price, in my opinion.

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I think it matters to look at this, because I get the sense if we don't have any defensive pieces in our armies going forward, we're going to get run over on these smaller tables and our objectives will just be stolen from underneath us. Anvil Skinks were great, but they are dead, and we have to deal with that.

My not-so-hot take is that Saurus Warriors are ab-so-lute garbage in Starborne armies. Any ally unit from this list would be better. Maybe they work just as an emergency summon, at least they'll hold better than skinks.

My lukewarm take is that Saurus Warriors could still have a place in Coalesced armies if we are truly entering a hero/monster meta because of Scaly Skin. And, hey, it seems well possible.


My warm (hot?) take is that in all other scenarios, Dreadspears or Eternal Guard (and maaaybe Sequitors depending on whether or not they change in the upcoming SCE book) are the probably the best anvils we can take, depending on whether you value the bonuses Eternal Guard get or not.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Eternal Guard (125 for 10): 4+ save on 10 models. And just for standing still in a turn they get +1 to hit, wound, and save. Which means every opponent turn unless you Redeploy them. Stacking mystic shield and all out defense would make them ignore a lot of rend, too. I kinda like these.

sisters of the thorn gell even better with them. 2+ rend resistance.
another thing to keep in mind when building anvils is the spell phas protection on the battlemage scroll -1 to be hit if combined with starpriests spell that makes it -1

 

[Nart]

another thing to keep in mind when building anvils is the spell phas protection on the battlemage scroll -1 to be hit if combined with starpriests spell that makes it -1

There's a chance that spells will be changed.

By the way, what do you think about kroak+hurricanum+exorcist+everblaze combo?

I think, it will be enough mortal wound to kill a Zombie Dragon in single turn.

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

sisters of the thorn gell even better with them. 2+ rend resistance.
another thing to keep in mind when building anvils is the spell phas protection on the battlemage scroll -1 to be hit if combined with starpriests spell that makes it -1

Now that's super interesting. Especially considering Pha's Protection doesn't have to be cast on a CoS unit, as it stands.


Lots of opportunities for us in the CoS book, I think. Lots to learn for those of us unfamiliar with them til now.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

There's a chance that spells will be changed.

By the way, what do you think about kroak+hurricanum+exorcist+everblaze combo?

I think, it will be enough mortal wound to kill a Zombie Dragon in single turn.

i think that is a fun waist of points

 

[Tombomb7]

Eternal Guard (125 for 10): 4+ save on 10 models. And just for standing still in a turn they get +1 to hit, wound, and save. Which means every opponent turn unless you Redeploy them. Stacking mystic shield and all out defense would make them ignore a lot of rend, too. I kinda like these.

Are we allowed to stack? If the unit already has +1 naturally due to a warscroll trait, are we allowed to stack? I guess it would be one of Mystic Shield or All Out Defense?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Are we allowed to stack? If the unit already has +1 naturally due to a warscroll trait, are we allowed to stack? I guess it would be one of Mystic Shield or All Out Defense?

yes it just acts as debuff prevention.
for instance if we have +2 to a unit it only acks like a +1 but if we have +2 and the opponent has -1 then we still have a +1

 

[ArtoriusaurusRex]

A little bit of ignoring rend can go a long way, I reckon

 

[Tichi Huichi Raider]

How strong do yall feel that salamanders are in the Aos 3.0?