• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

Tutorial Seraphon List for GHB2020

When did Chameleon skinks become good. I was under the impression they weren't too good. Also are there any tourney lists without Terradons?
 
Grotpunter said:
Honestly Im so sad they made Thunderlizard the way it is. It basically ensures Bastiladons arent an option in any of the 3 other subfactions, which seems like a kinda shit design choice to me. Why give us less options? I understand the different subfactions granting some kind of synergy to specific units, but this isnt really synergy - It is a matter of a unit being basically worthless vs somewhat viable. I really wish Thunderlizard was something else and Bastiladons instead were baseline awesome to make them a proper choice. Giving up some damage in favor of survivability and range is a reasonable trade off that I would be willing to do.
Click to expand...
yeah, I would have loved to have seen TL be "you have no limit on Behemoths", and a CA that didn't only affect two specific ones... but rather something that was universal and useful, like "Monster defence" 1 cp to have a friendly Seraphon model within 18" of a hero brace for impact. Whenever this model suffers a wound or mortal wound during this phase, roll a d6, on a 5+ that would is ignored. useable any time, but only good for the phase in which it is spent, and the same unit cant benefit from it more than once a turn, so if you brace in the shooting phase, you cant get it in the fight phase
 
DeathBringer125 said:
When did Chameleon skinks become good.
Click to expand...

They are good when buffed and has some synergy with FoS. With +1 hit, serpent staff and RR1s they do 20-21 wounds to 4+ save which is solid. They do around half that without buffs. They also have some movement shenanigans. A unit of 20 do 6-7 MWs unbuffed, so they can easily pop up and crump small heroes or finish off bigger stuff that Kroak has wounded. Downside is that they are very fragile if they're not in cover.

When salamanders got a hefty nerf they became a viable option. I saw several Seraphon lists that went undefeated in TTS tournaments with 1-2 ×20 cammos, and that was before salamander nerfs.
 
LizardWizard said:
Agreed. Chameleon Skinks have always been viable, especially in FoS. Now that Salamanders have seen such a huge price hike, and since I predominately play FoS, I easily prefer Chameleon Skinks.
Click to expand...
Do you plan to buff them/keep a hero around them or use them to deepstrike/attack from another angle?
 
Grotpunter said:
Do you plan to buff them/keep a hero around them or use them to deepstrike/attack from another angle?
Click to expand...
Yep. The goal is to keep at least one of the Skink heroes near them to make use of the FoS CA. However, against heavy shooting armies the opponent will just kill the Skink Hero, but a lot of those armies wouldn't be charging anyways. And if the opponent is relying on Magic to deal with them then we will have a +2 or +3 to unbind in most cases.

It isn't full proof. Sadly we're a glass hammer who seldom gets to dictate turn one priority. It would be very match dependent for me to start Chameleons on the table though, like it would have to be crazy safe. Thus getting Serpent's Staff buff for Chameleon's is mostly reliant on a double turn. I kinda like the Terradons w/Chamelon Skinks more than just the full Skink/Chameleon Skink FoS list because of the short falls of keeping Skink heroes a live.
 
2000pt Dracothion's Tail: Magic and Slamanders

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail

Leaders:
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
- Spell: Mystical Unforging
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Celestial Equilibrium
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Oracle on Troglodon (220)
- Spell: Tide of Serpents
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)

Battleline:
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Saurus Warriors (90)
- Clubs

Units:
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (330)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs:
Balewind Vortex (40)
Bound Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96

Return to Index
 
LizardWizard said:
330 is too much for Salamanders. I would rather something tankier and little less damaging such as the Bastiladon. I meant to say Chameleons instead of Razordons. Had just been running the numbers between the two swapped them out while typing :( Chameleon Skinks cost 30 points more for a 20x unit, have 8 more models (maybe or maybe not with a better save), don't eat up LoSaT, remain "safe" until needed, and deal 1 more damage on average. They also benefit from more of the FoS synergies and play better with the Serpent's Staff. Bastiladons were souly being considered for TL.
Click to expand...
So after some more games against what I would consider some rough matchups for us, I actually concur with your original statement. Not nessecarily due to Petrifix, but I see the Salamanders as a "win more" unit - As in it makes our easy matchups significantly easier, but it does nothing against our bad/tough matchups. The 12" reach really holds them back and it is just too easy to screen out the DT drop or in general teleported Salamanders. We need much more reach - Due to all this 330 pts for 3 Salamanders is way too much. They also just dont impact the objective game enough in the early turns.
 
hey all,

I've been trying to come up with a list for my own collection (don't judge it too hard it's my first go :D). The main strategy would be to sit Kroak, the bassies and the EotG at the back to pour out MW, long range damage and healing and use the oracle to cast from, hope it isn't too bad - feedback and improvement ideas are more than welcome.

Starborne - Dracothion's Tail

Leaders x5
Skink oracle - 220
-General
-Nimble
-Godbeast pendant
-Celestial Harmony

EotG - 260

Lord Kroak - 320
-Stellar Tempest

Saurus Astrolith Bearer - 140

Skink Priest - 70

Battleline x4

Saurus Guard x5 - 100

Skinks x20 - 120
-Javelins, star bucklers, moonstone clubs

Skinks x10 - 60
-Boltspitters, star bucklers, moonstone clubs

Skinks x10 - 60
-Boltspitters, star bucklers, moonstone clubs

Behemoth x4
Bastiladon - 220
-Solar Engine

Bastiladon - 220
-Solar Engine

Endless Spells x2
Balewind Vortex - 40
Bound Geminids - 70

Extra Command Point - 50

Total: 1950 points
Wounds: 111

Hope it's ok :)
 
Eoin Tehemundi said:
hey all,

I've been trying to come up with a list for my own collection (don't judge it too hard it's my first go :D). The main strategy would be to sit Kroak, the bassies and the EotG at the back to pour out MW, long range damage and healing and use the oracle to cast from, hope it isn't too bad - feedback and improvement ideas are more than welcome.

Starborne - Dracothion's Tail

Leaders x5
Skink oracle - 220
-General
-Nimble
-Godbeast pendant
-Celestial Harmony

EotG - 260

Lord Kroak - 320
-Stellar Tempest

Saurus Astrolith Bearer - 140

Skink Priest - 70

Battleline x4

Saurus Guard x5 - 100

Skinks x20 - 120
-Javelins, star bucklers, moonstone clubs

Skinks x10 - 60
-Boltspitters, star bucklers, moonstone clubs

Skinks x10 - 60
-Boltspitters, star bucklers, moonstone clubs

Behemoth x4
Bastiladon - 220
-Solar Engine

Bastiladon - 220
-Solar Engine

Endless Spells x2
Balewind Vortex - 40
Bound Geminids - 70

Extra Command Point - 50

Total: 1950 points
Wounds: 111

Hope it's ok :)
Click to expand...
Other than the summoning, teleport and bravery 10 on skinks, might be better to have as thunder lizard, then you have the option of shooting the bastildons and using the engine again each turn for CP, you would also have 2 extra wounds on them and the oracle. The - 1 damage from being coalesced also would help the oracle survive better
 
Grotpunter said:
So after some more games against what I would consider some rough matchups for us, I actually concur with your original statement. Not nessecarily due to Petrifix, but I see the Salamanders as a "win more" unit - As in it makes our easy matchups significantly easier, but it does nothing against our bad/tough matchups. The 12" reach really holds them back and it is just too easy to screen out the DT drop or in general teleported Salamanders. We need much more reach - Due to all this 330 pts for 3 Salamanders is way too much. They also just dont impact the objective game enough in the early turns.
Click to expand...
you don't say
 
Grotpunter said:
So after some more games against what I would consider some rough matchups for us, I actually concur with your original statement. Not nessecarily due to Petrifix, but I see the Salamanders as a "win more" unit - As in it makes our easy matchups significantly easier, but it does nothing against our bad/tough matchups. The 12" reach really holds them back and it is just too easy to screen out the DT drop or in general teleported Salamanders. We need much more reach - Due to all this 330 pts for 3 Salamanders is way too much. They also just dont impact the objective game enough in the early turns.
Click to expand...
Yeah, 330 is too much.They were always a bit win more in my play experience, but Petrifex made them mandatory depending on local meta. They were the only thing that could reliably get work done against them before. 12" range isn't an issue when the screen are the the same things you want to kill. Like the Gowthizar near the Mortek Guard, the Mortek Guard themselves, Pink Horrors, Flamers, Hearth Guard, ect. The second you need to reach into the mid/back field they suffer.

If Mortis Praetorians become an issue then I might have to reconsider their prevalence. At the moment, I like Chameleons and Terradons more. Would love to have something a little more hammery or a little less glassy though.

Something I haven't talked about too much is that Saurus Warriors and Saurus Knights list have gotten more competitive. Some shooting in the list is still good, but at the moment it seems like we no longer have to have a plan to kill a Gowthizar is one go. This price hike to Pink Horrors also means that Saurus Warriors will be able to kill themselves clean of Horros by turn 3 or 4 instead of being stuck all game. With enough buffs we can even break though in 1/2 turns.
 
LizardWizard said:
Yeah, 330 is too much.They were always a bit win more in my play experience, but Petrifex made them mandatory depending on local meta. They were the only thing that could reliably get work done against them before. 12" range isn't an issue when the screen are the the same things you want to kill. Like the Gowthizar near the Mortek Guard, the Mortek Guard themselves, Pink Horrors, Flamers, Hearth Guard, ect. The second you need to reach into the mid/back field they suffer.

If Mortis Praetorians become an issue then I might have to reconsider their prevalence. At the moment, I like Chameleons and Terradons more. Would love to have something a little more hammery or a little less glassy though.

Something I haven't talked about too much is that Saurus Warriors and Saurus Knights list have gotten more competitive. Some shooting in the list is still good, but at the moment it seems like we no longer have to have a plan to kill a Gowthizar is one go. This price hike to Pink Horrors also means that Saurus Warriors will be able to kill themselves clean of Horros by turn 3 or 4 instead of being stuck all game. With enough buffs we can even break though in 1/2 turns.
Click to expand...
Chameleon Skinks seem alright to me, but Im still not keen on Terradons. My issue is that I really lack reach to pick off key targets against certain matchups, which none of them really help with. Kroak with 22" on Celestial Deliverance rarely does anything against an opponent that actually wants to play the objective game, especially the first couple of turns, since on many battleplans 22" wont give you enough cover to threaten objectives. Because of this Im starting to consider Spellportal for Kroak so you at least have 2, maybe 3 spells you can throw at your opponent (Comet's Call, 1 CD through Spellportal and 36" Stellar Tempest should be able to hit something) in the first couple of turns if the opponent just hangs back outside of 22".

I have also come around on the Bastiladon even in Starborne - It might not have the same damage as Salamanders or 40 Skinks (it never needed to have equal damage to be fair), but the range seems really valuable, especially to try and snipe those key support heroes hiding deep behind screens. It will be very difficult to hide against boardwide Comet's Call (duh) + 22" CD + 18" through Spellportal + 24" range + 5" move (potentially + 6" run) on the Bastiladon. This output alone should kill most squishy heroes and it gets especially fun against Chaos Daemons like Tzeentch where you almost oneshot Kairos from outside of their casting range. It really forces him to spend DD to mess it up from turn 1.

In general as Starborne you are looking at always going first (I really dont see how you can make a list with below 10ish drops, unless you really love the Terradons, but alas Im not too keen on them just yet), so it is a must to build your list around always taking turn 1 and getting something done. Right now from my experience I get nothing done in turn 1 except generating CCP and throwing out Comet's Call. There is zero threat for my opponent to give me the first turn I feel. With the choices of above it gives me things to do even in turn 1 which might make my opponent think twice.


I watched a Mortis Praetorians list with Katakros + Arkhan + 2x Crawlers + Mortek really give Tzeentch a run for their money. Pretty respectable ranged output and good sustain with both Arkhan and Katakros. I wouldnt be surprised if that is largely what we will see from OBR. I havent personally seen anyone play with Harvesters for a good while.
 
Grotpunter said:
I watched a Mortis Praetorians list with Katakros + Arkhan + 2x Crawlers + Mortek really give Tzeentch a run for their money. Pretty respectable ranged output and good sustain with both Arkhan and Katakros. I wouldnt be surprised if that is largely what we will see from OBR. I havent personally seen anyone play with Harvesters for a good while.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Mortek Crawler Spam is what I am expecting to see from most OBR.

FoS has more than enough movement and range to be threatening on the first turn. Specially if you get a few Skink Priest rituals off and can run and shoot/charge.

Part of the reason I like Terradons is their massive movement. They are not easy to pilot though. They require a lot of planning and game sense during both deployment and turns 1 & 2. Terradons might require the most preplanning of any of our units at the moment. They lack the certainty of use that makes other units more comfortable to run.
 
Question to you guys, i've already been winning big events with salamanders spam, chameleon heavy fangs, magic heavy stuff. It's super strong / cool but i got challenged by mates to makes a saurus list and win events too :p ( My goal is to do the same with thunder lizard but there is already basti spam winning out there so, i'll keep it for later :D )
So here i am , theorycrafting stuff with koatl's claw. Core is the classic Kroak's package ( Kroak / banner / guards / Geminids bound / Balewind ) Then
i wonder what's the best way to go , i think knights seems better way to go because of mobility over saurus . Also would love to use carnosaurs because they are ok/good.
Would love to have insight on Koatl's claw competitive and your experiences on saurus / saurus Knights and Carnosaurs in competitive environnment.
Will come back later with fine lists when i found some :)
 
Aktanolt said:
Question to you guys, i've already been winning big events with salamanders spam, chameleon heavy fangs, magic heavy stuff. It's super strong / cool but i got challenged by mates to makes a saurus list and win events too :p ( My goal is to do the same with thunder lizard but there is already basti spam winning out there so, i'll keep it for later :D )
So here i am , theorycrafting stuff with koatl's claw. Core is the classic Kroak's package ( Kroak / banner / guards / Geminids bound / Balewind ) Then
i wonder what's the best way to go , i think knights seems better way to go because of mobility over saurus . Also would love to use carnosaurs because they are ok/good.
Would love to have insight on Koatl's claw competitive and your experiences on saurus / saurus Knights and Carnosaurs in competitive environnment.
Will come back later with fine lists when i found some :)
Click to expand...
I think knights with starpriest buff is the most effective with koatls claw.
warriors are too slow and too big of a unit, they will get cut down before they can do much.
carnosaurs are great if they get into stuff before taking too much damage.
I like the carnos because either your opponent hits that to neutralise it but then leaves the knights or vice versa
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top