Tutorial Seraphon Overview (updated to AoS 3.0)

[Canas]

just run them in star born 10 bravery is nice and any thing that can make them shock at that point just kills them out right

still sucks if you wanne play Coalesced. Suffering 3 wounds gives you a 2/3th chance of losing your salamander/razordon at msu. At maximum size 8 wounds are enough to guarantee the loss of a salamander (either to battleshock or to the wounds) and if you can get to something like 12-15 wounds you'l probably wipe out all the salamanders even in a max-sized unit (might still be some handlers left depending on how you assign the wounds).

they're just kind of a weird unit right now when it comes to battleshock. Plus, the handlers just don't do anything which is also weird.

 

[Killer Angel]

still sucks if you wanne play Coalesced. Suffering 3 wounds gives you a 2/3th chance of losing your salamander/razordon at msu.

Battleshock is indeed a problem, especially in a large unit. But of course, unless the enemy don't kill all your handlers at once, they are my first choice of fleeing model.
with a unit of 3 hunting pack at bravery 5, they kill 5 handlers and i roll a 3... 3 handlers flee.

 

[Nart]

BUT BIG DINOSAUR NART.

No objections. 1:1.

they're also super easy to cause battleshock on, unless you have cp to burn.

But not in starborne. And coalesced salamanders have no benifits for shooting, only for melee, which is great, but they are taken for shooting in the first place. In coalesced army the Celestial Harmony is an answer. Need a spare CP, if you are running two squads, which can be a problem. But it is possible to deal with battleshock problem.

I veiw dread as a tank, not a damage dealer. But lack of synergies ang giant base really kills him as a competivive choice, IMO. But in friendly games he'll be great.

 

[Killer Angel]

Update: analysis for units has been completed (leaving aside possible corrections)

 

[Canas]

Battleshock is indeed a problem, especially in a large unit. But of course, unless the enemy don't kill all your handlers at once, they are my first choice of fleeing model.
with a unit of 3 hunting pack at bravery 5, they kill 5 handlers and i roll a 3... 3 handlers flee.

Sure, but next time you roll a 6 and now a mere 5 succesfull wounds have wiped out the entire unit. It seems like rather a risky gamble, especially if your opponent is halfway capable and tries to focus down the hunting packs.

 

[Killer Angel]

Sure, but next time you roll a 6 and now a mere 5 succesfull wounds have wiped out the entire unit. It seems like rather a risky gamble, especially if your opponent is halfway capable and tries to focus down the hunting packs.

Sure, I'm not saying it is safe, but it's still a possibility (and anyway, it's a risk i would not take with less than 4 disposable handlers)
Let's say that if the opponent killed 4 handlers and you still have 5, it's basically an auto-pass for the sallies.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Sure, but next time you roll a 6 and now a mere 5 succesfull wounds have wiped out the entire unit. It seems like rather a risky gamble, especially if your opponent is halfway capable and tries to focus down the hunting packs.

i don't plan on giving him the chance salamanders that drop from the sky fire and then charge do far more then make up for their points if they die after that oh well. our entire army is glass hammers at least with salamanders you get your monies worth

 

[Canas]

remarks:
- ripper's chief command ability is AoE, and decently large at 18", it also affects himself. A potential interesting use is to bring several msu of rippers. This way your opponent will have difficulty bringing them all down. And with 3-4 units the damage will start stacking up quickly.
Also, since they're all msu and not particularly impressive it might catch an opponent ofguard if they suddenly have 6-7 attacks per model which also explode on a 6+.

- EoTG: can be used for some hilarious healing combo's. An EoTG + bound lifeswarm + the healing spell a slann gets allows you to heal something for potentially 3D3. Which is fairly hilarious. Also, with its healing it is reasonaby self-sufficient. Which is nice. It plays vastly different than how it used to, but I'd be very surprised if it wouldn't find it's way back into competitive lists with ease. I mean, just imagine the nonsense you can pull supporting a bastiladon with 3D3 heals.

- scar vet on cold one/carno: both can be used in the firelance if I understood it correctly.

- ark of sotek: the average output is actually relativly decent, and the threat of a potential 18 mortal wounds is quite usefull for mind-games. However, it's degrading profile is a major issue. Once you've suffered 7+ wounds it'l struggle to hit anything. There is some potential if you support it with healing though.

- stegadon: the chief's command ability allows you to double flamer attacks RAW. Which is fairly amazing. It also significantly lowers the amount of targets needed to be usefull.

- Kroxigor: potential fun use, have them be the honour guard of an EoTG. The EoTG will heal them and trigger the skink buff, the kroxigor will protect the EoTG and help it chew through hordes. Nice little synergy with minimal effort.

i don't plan on giving him the chance salamanders that drop from the sky fire and then charge do far more then make up for their points if they die after that oh well. our entire army is glass hammers at least with salamanders you get your monies worth

Having them be kamikaze's is one solution I guess

 

[Lizerd]

@Killer Angel im not sold on the idea that carnosaurs are now horde killers, my guess is that they function to take out smaller heroes, or if properly buffed be sent after big monsters. They can hit really hard and can put up a fairly good fight

 

[Aktanolt]

Hi, super cool review, i'm working on a french version of it with my opinion, can i use parts of your review organisation plz ? You'll be quoted ofc

 

[Nart]

Update: analysis for units has been completed (leaving aside possible corrections)

Great! Thank you very much!

A couple of remarks:

1) Can you, please, note in the Stegadon section, that +1 save is only works against single unit with less than 5 models? Otherwise, stegadon may look way better, than it actually is.

2) On several occasions you mentioned units in Koatl's Claw getting +1 to-hit on charge (Kroxigor, Ripperdactyl). But it only applies to SAURUS units, unfortunately. But still, ripperdactyls can get +2 to-hit - one from shadowstrike ability and another one from Skink Priest's command ability.

- stegadon: the chief's command ability allows you to double flamer attacks RAW. Which is fairly amazing. It also significantly lowers the amount of targets needed to be usefull.

How is it? Flamers don't have attacks characteristics, so you cannot give them +1 attack. And Chief only gives +1 attack on melee weapons.

 

[Lizerd]

Great! Thank you very much!

A couple of remarks:

1) Can you, please, note in the Stegadon section, that +1 save is only works against single unit with less than 5 models? Otherwise, stegadon may look way better, than it actually is.

2) On several occasions you mentioned units in Koatl's Claw getting +1 to-hit on charge (Kroxigor, Ripperdactyl). But it only applies to SAURUS units, unfortunately. But still, ripperdactyls can get +2 to-hit - one from shadowstrike ability and another one from Skink Priest's command ability.



How is it? Flamers don't have attacks characteristics, so you cannot give them +1 attack. And Chief only gives +1 attack on melee weapons.

In theory the attacks characteristic is determined by the number of models within range, so I guess you can add bonus attacks to that determined characteristic

 

[LizardWizard]

@Killer Angel im not sold on the idea that carnosaurs are now horde killers, my guess is that they function to take out smaller heroes, or if properly buffed be sent after big monsters. They can hit really hard and can put up a fairly good fight

The ScV on Carno can be a super potent hero killer. Take the Spear and apply Sword of Judgement to it. It is quite possible to get the ScV to a +2 to hit with Koatls Claws and an Oldblood Command Ability. Now every 4+ to hit will do d6 MWs to heroes and Monster from your Spear.

 

[Lizerd]

The ScV on Carno can be a super potent hero killer. Take the Spear and apply Sword of Judgement to it. It is quite possible to get the ScV to a +2 to hit with Koatls Claws and an Oldblood Command Ability. Now every 4+ to hit will do d6 MWs to heroes and Monster from your Spear.

Dear Sotek that’s terrifying. I was initially thinking about blade of realities on an oldblood as the spear becomes rend -2 which fixes its only issue, and does 4 damage against heroes. But yeah sword of judgment looks WICKED

 

[Erta Wanderer]

The ScV on Carno can be a super potent hero killer. Take the Spear and apply Sword of Judgement to it. It is quite possible to get the ScV to a +2 to hit with Koatls Claws and an Oldblood Command Ability. Now every 4+ to hit will do d6 MWs to heroes and Monster from your Spear.

shame that his buff against 6 or less wound models is just on bights that would be even better

 

[Captaniser]

Dear Sotek that’s terrifying. I was initially thinking about blade of realities on an oldblood as the spear becomes rend -2 which fixes its only issue, and does 4 damage against heroes. But yeah sword of judgment looks WICKED

Isn't it on an unmodified hit that the d6 mortal wounds trigger? If not then i suppose it will get faq'ed if it cathes the attention of GW.

 

[Lizerd]

Isn't it on an unmodified hit that the d6 mortal wounds trigger? If not then i suppose it will get faq'ed if it cathes the attention of GW.

To quote “6 Sword of Judgement:This sword judges those struck, destroying the unworthy. Pick one of the bearer’s melee weapons to be a Sword of Judgement. If the hit roll for an attack with that weapon against a HERO or MONSTER is a 6+, that attack inflicts d6 mortal wounds.”

it doesn’t say unmodified so it’s in the clear, I’m going to check the errata

 

[Captaniser]

How is it? Flamers don't have attacks characteristics, so you cannot give them +1 attack. And Chief only gives +1 attack on melee weapons.

The flamer has an attack characteristic of one (1), but it is ranged so it won't benefit from the command ability.

 

[Lizerd]

Alright, checked errata and sword of judgement is in the clear

 

[Canas]

How is it? Flamers don't have attacks characteristics, so you cannot give them +1 attack. And Chief only gives +1 attack on melee weapons.

They have an attack characteristic on the new profile.

But I thought it was for ranged weapons as well, or I mistook it for something else.

 

[Nart]

In theory the attacks characteristic is determined by the number of models within range, so I guess you can add bonus attacks to that determined characteristic

It was true before, but now now you just throw dice, when in range. They are not the number of attacks.

They have an attack characteristic on the new profile.

Yeah, just noticed it. Shame, that Chief's CA works only on melee. But Salamanders would be broken otherwise.