Star Trek vs. Star Wars (and a collection of memes)

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Spoiler: Mandalorian

 

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[Aginor]

I am two thirds through Jedi: Fallen Order (17 hours or so, I like to take my time)
Still a solid recommendation.

 

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Spoiler: Mandalorian

 

[Scalenex]

Most of these services are not worth it in my opinion but if I made more money or had different niche tastes, I might run up a higher bill.Seriously, why does ANYONE pay $9.99 to watch CBS?

Episode 2 of Mandalorian. Still good! Still no sign of wokeness!

I will probably watch this myself just out of curiosity but lack of wokeness by itself does not a good show or movie make. At the same time, a show or movie can be woke and good. These two things are not mutually exclusive, it's just that lazy writers don't know how to include political messages without ruining the story.

Spoiler: Mandalorian Spoiler, Response to Nightbringer

Spoiler: Mandalorian

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That is my concern with the Mandalorian. That this is just too gimmicky. EveIt ryone is talking about how cool the concept of a baby Yoda is, they are ignoring the rest of the show.

-A cute adorable mascot character
-Fan service character
-Shocking twist character

It might be too special. A lot like a pegasean unicorn which you hardly ever see in fiction or art. Pegasi are cool, unicorns are cool. If you put it just feels janky.

It anything the Mandalorian has too much fan service. Some of it seemed out of context and thrown in with little forethought. Among other things, I don't like that they made carbon freezing criminals standard procedure. In Empire Strikes Back everyone acted like it was an unorthodox method of prisoner transport. The weird torture seens of whatever race Salacious Crumb is also weird.

Maybe the old trilogy fans will like this if utterly saturate this with imagery from the original trilogy!

I think The Last Jedi lowered people's expectations so much that people are praising the Mandalorian just because it's not a dumpster fire. If this show came out before the Disney Star Wars movies, I bet people would have generally disliked it.

Speaking of dumpster fires. This is an unconfirmed rumor, but OverlordDVD's rumors tend to be pretty accurate. If the working cut of Rise of Skywalker is half this bad, then Disney needs to do more reshoots and they should delay the release of the movie.

 

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but lack of wokeness by itself does not a good show or movie make.

I agree... it just means that it is better than something that is woke (so already better than the ST).

At the same time, a show or movie can be woke and good.

Depends how you define and use the term woke (dictionary definition vs modern everyday usage). You can skillfully tackle social/political issues, but those films/shows are often not labeled woke. If woke is used in the SJW context, then it cannot be good. Alita Battle angel has a strong female lead and is not considered to be woke, TLJ has a strong female lead and it is considered woke.

it's just that lazy writers don't know how to include political messages without ruining the story.

It comes down to what the focus is on. Is the focus on telling a good story or screeching about SJW political issues?

Spoiler: Mandalorian Spoiler, Response to Nightbringer

I think the show (so far) is good but not great. By good I simply mean that I have enjoyed watching it; no more, no less. Your criticism that it is too gimmicky does have merit. The story thus far is extremely simplistic, but still enjoyable. If you are hoping a complex interwoven story line, you'll be disappointed. Most of the gimmicky things you mentioned are the very things that I enjoyed about it. Above all else, it feels like you are in the Star Wars universe. The visuals are solid and the music has a unique flare to it.

Spoiler

The carbon freezing doesn't bother me at all. The Mandalorian takes place after the events of the OT. What was unorthodox back then might have been subsequently perfected and adopted by others. Everything is new and novel at some point, and if it works, it has the chance to be utilized on a larger scale. I don't find it too far fetched that a Mandalorian might have heard about the successful carbon freezing of Han Solo and adopted it for his own.

"Maybe the old trilogy fans will like this if utterly saturate this with imagery from the original trilogy!"
You're not wrong. What I like most about it is that it feels like the OT.

I think The Last Jedi lowered people's expectations so much that people are praising the Mandalorian just because it's not a dumpster fire.

That is partially true, but on the flip side, others (myself included) are admittedly looking for reasons not to like anything produced by Disney LucasFilm. The burden of proof has changed. Previously it was something akin to "innocent until proven guilty" but now it is "guilty until proven innocent". Or more specifically, old Star Wars was good in my eyes until proven bad, but now all Disney Star Wars content is bad until proven good.

 

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Spoiler: Mandalorian

 

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Spoiler: Mandalorian

 

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Spoiler: Mandalorian

 

[Scalenex]

It comes down to what the focus is on. Is the focus on telling a good story or screeching about SJW political issues?

Wall-E was not subtle in it's messaging. I still enjoyed it.

Zootopia was not subtle in it's messaging. I still enjoyed it.

It's a short list, but I'm sure if I really put some effort I could name ten pieces of media in this boat.

 

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Wall-E was not subtle in it's messaging. I still enjoyed it.

Zootopia was not subtle in it's messaging. I still enjoyed it.

It's a short list, but I'm sure if I really put some effort I could name ten pieces of media in this boat.

Those films placed emphasis on story over politics. I don't recall anybody labeling them as woke.

 

[Scalenex]

Those films placed emphasis on story over politics. I don't recall anybody labeling them as woke.

I guess you hit the nail on the head. A film is only panned as "woke" if it annoys many people even if it has woke elements in it.

Now that I think about it. Avatar was annoyingly preachy with an unsubtle message. Are pro-environmentalist movies exempt from being considered "woke." That's probably a discussion for another thread.

To go back to Star Wars. Remember when Rose and Finn saved a bunch of animals by freeing them into the wilderness of a planet they weren't native to so they could die or imbalance the ecosystem all while leaving without rescuing the child slaves? Good times.

 

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To go back to Star Wars. Remember when Rose and Finn saved a bunch of animals by freeing them into the wilderness of a planet they weren't native to so they could die or imbalance the ecosystem all while leaving without rescuing the child slaves? Good times.

Because SJW's are stupid!

I love it how even TLJ fans don't really try to defend the Canto Bight scene.

Now that I think about it. Avatar was annoyingly preachy with an unsubtle message. Are pro-environmentalist movies exempt from being considered "woke." That's probably a discussion for another thread.

I actually enjoyed that movie.

 

[Scalenex]

I actually enjoyed that movie.

I saw the movie twice.

I enjoyed the movie the first time. The first time I just marveled at the amazing visuals.

The second time I paid attention to the plot and the acting...

I think Avatar is a Thomas Edison movie. Thomas Edison patented a technology that became a forerunner to many of our modern movies. No one remembers what the movie was. What is important is he made technology that enhanced future movies.

Same thing with Avatar, motion capture animation keeps getting better and cheaper.

 

[Aginor]

Avatar was Pocahontas story + great visuals.
I enjoyed the movie (saw it at least twice, maybe three times) but the story is...simple.
And that's OK. It is allowed to enjoy simple things.

Star Wars isn't exactly known for complex stories (or ones that make a lot of sense) either. It never was and that is OK.

 

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