Tomb kings in AoS

[Canas]

From both of these reasons and the fact that they continue to release minis and supplements for only the most famous characters and the frontline races, i.e. Gondor, Rohan, Lake Town e.t.c, rather than doing more to examine the more fantastical elements of Tolkien's world, it is certainly fair to say that GW still don't care that much about Middle Earth despite the attempted revival, which is a damn shame.

To be honest I don't get why they haven't at least tried to re-use the ruleset. Even if the game itself is not worth the effort to truly maintain the ruleset was great and I would love to see the way you decide combat & its cover mechanics incorperated into other games.

Also, I think a major issue is that LoTR simply doesn't have as much fantastical creatures, at least not prominent ones. Elves, orcs and dwarves don't differ too much from humans. And you don't have much in terms of siege equipment and the like either. So most armies look and feel far more similar than the armies in say AoS. That probably doesn't help with it's popularity.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Sure, but mostly for industrial purposes.

The industrial purposes are near limitless. In the end it makes no difference if it is the industrial or home printer that drives the technological development of 3d printers (spoiler, the driving force will be the industrial sector); both will reap the benefits. I feel the home printer won't become widespread until the technology matures further.

Also, even if a person didn't have their own printer, they will be able to pay to use one from a business. For instance, I can get conventional printing done at a Staples store. Many universities already have 3d printers available for students to use.

I don't really see any reason for consumers to have a household 3D printer though.

Technology is a tricky thing to predict. At one point (during its infancy) people could not imagine what the internet would be useful for. 20 years ago who could have predicted the various widespread uses of smart phones? Remember those grainy phone cameras... what was the use of them? Now the cameras are a major driving force of smart phones. I remember when streaming services were just coming around and they were originally shunned because we had video rental stores.

What exactly would be worth the effort of getting your own printer for? Even if it were cost efficient, what exactly would be worth the effort of getting your own 3D printer? What is the average consumer going to need to use a 3D printer often enough for to warrant getting one themselves? The only "normal" consumer use I can think of is printing stuff for various board games. But that seems rather an extremely niche market to base the entire consumer grade printer industry on, especially seeing as many people would rather be lazy and not have to go and search for the patterns themselves.

• cost effectiveness - cut out the middle man and transport costs
• serving remote locations - now it doesn't matter if there are no stores near by or if shipping is astronomically expensive
• unusual and very specific items - things that businesses might not find profitable to store can now be easily stored and sold digitally
• custom items - people can make things for themselves
• "Etsy" type items - connect small level creators and consumers, just sell them the printing file
• convenience - no shipping time, no need to leave your home

Honestly the possibilities are nearly endless. Those are just a few a thought of off the top of my head. There will undoubtedly be things we can't even imagine.

 

[Killer Angel]

This is one of the main reasons, but as a collector and player of Middle Earth models myself I also personally blame two other reasons why Middle Earth is on the decline:

1. The February 2012 army selection rules changes. Originally as long as you had a hero as your General and some regular troops (unless you played an all-hero faction like the Fellowship or Thorin's Company) it was a legal army. However, when February 2012 came round, GW released 5 condensed sourcebooks that altered the army selection rules so that you had to have one hero for every 12 non-hero models (the so-called 'warbands'), and you could have heroes on their own without any non-hero units, but you couldn't have any non-hero models in a unit without a hero to lead them, which, compared to the Warhammer Fantasy, 40K and even AoS army selection rules is pretty silly, and a deliberate ruse to get people to buy more hero models, as previously you only needed one or two, and only bought more than that if you wanted to have an army with more heroes, not because you had to. This made the game so much less flexible that I wouldn't be surprised that many players just gave up there and then. What makes it worse is that this awful army selection ruleset remains in the new edition that was intended to revive it.
2. GW shifting the production of all new Middle Earth units and characters to Forge World. This was the biggest mistake GW ever could have made with resurrecting Middle Earth - not only are Forge World minis even more crazily-priced than the regular plastic GW minis, they are also only purchasable in the Warhammer World store and select independent stores if you don't want to buy them online (like me, although I understand not everyone has this latter problem). Have any of you noticed the horrendous price of the Iron Hills Dwarf Chariot (£100 for a model that is pretty small and unimpressive compared to, for example, a Trygon which has the same size base - I think I talked about this once before in another thread)? Talk about putting your customers off.

From both of these reasons and the fact that they continue to release minis and supplements for only the most famous characters and the frontline races, i.e. Gondor, Rohan, Lake Town e.t.c, rather than doing more to examine the more fantastical elements of Tolkien's world, it is certainly fair to say that GW still don't care that much about Middle Earth despite the attempted revival, which is a damn shame.

It's kinda like GW said "let's milk once again the lotr cow, grab as many money as we can and then... who cares".

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

It's funny how far this thread has deviated!

 

[Killer Angel]

It's funny how far this thread has deviated!

Everything under the sun belongs to Settra!

 

[Canas]

The industrial purposes are near limitless. In the end it makes no difference if it is the industrial or home printer that drives the technological development of 3d printers (spoiler, the driving force will be the industrial sector); both will reap the benefits. I feel the home printer won't become widespread until the technology matures further.

Sure, the industry will drive for bigger and better printers. That doesn't necesarly mean you can use em at home.

Also, even if a person didn't have their own printer, they will be able to pay to use one from a business. For instance, I can get conventional printing done at a Staples store. Many universities already have 3d printers available for students to use.

This I'd find much more likely to happen than home printers. Though I'd still question what you'd want to print yourself, as opposed to just having it printed by your local furniture store or something based on a customer's order who can organise and maintain the various patterns as well as get specialised printers for specialised jobs. It'd cut transportation costs & the need for storage, while also being relativly efficient as everyone can use it, so it's not just the one print job per year.

Technology is a tricky thing to predict. At one point (during its infancy) people could not imagine what the internet would be useful for. 20 years ago who could have predicted the various widespread uses of smart phones? Remember those grainy phone cameras... what was the use of them? Now the cameras are a major driving force of smart phones. I remember when streaming services were just coming around and they were originally shunned because we had video rental stores.

True, but at least most of those had (some) fairly obvious potential consumer uses. They might not seem super usefull or even frivolous, and the competition might seem waaaaaaay better at the time. But at least you can see what they'd potentialy be used for. And of course some new uses were invented along the way that noone saw coming. But at least the potential was visible. Here this is much less so.

• cost effectiveness - cut out the middle man and transport costs
• serving remote locations - now it doesn't matter if there are no stores near by or if shipping is astronomically expensive
• unusual and very specific items - things that businesses might not find profitable to store can now be easily stored and sold digitally
• custom items - people can make things for themselves
• "Etsy" type items - connect small level creators and consumers, just sell them the printing file
• convenience - no shipping time, no need to leave your home

Honestly the possibilities are nearly endless. Those are just a few a thought of off the top of my head. There will undoubtedly be things we can't even imagine.

Those might be advantages, but for what items would that actually be worth the effort as a consumer? Who buys enough etsy stuff to want to print it yourself? Plus, most people are lazy and clumsy, putting together ikea furniture already pushes them to their limits. As long as any assembly at home is still required people are probably going to prefer just having someone do it for them. Not to mention that printing even something as small as wargaming miniatures already requires quite a big printer, who has the space to print say, a closet even if it comes in parts? And lastly, a lot of objects that could potentially be printed also last relativly long. I mean, an obvious one to print could be small household objects like cups. But buying an entire printer just to print some cuttlery and and a bunch of plates every 10 years seems a bit ridiculous.

I mean, there's probably someone somewhere who can make it work. But it doesn't seem like something that'd become a household object anytime soon.

It's funny how far this thread has deviated!

Can't be the worst deviation you've been a part of

It's kinda like GW said "let's milk once again the lotr cow, grab as many money as we can and then... who cares".

meh, makes me curious why they still have the license though. The tolkien estate seems to generally want to keep some control over the license and not hand it out to random nonsense from what I remember.[/QUOTE]

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Sure, the industry will drive for bigger and better printers. That doesn't necesarly mean you can use em at home.

No, but the technological advancement will bleed through into the smaller home versions.

True, but at least most of those had (some) fairly obvious potential consumer uses. They might not seem super usefull or even frivolous, and the competition might seem waaaaaaay better at the time. But at least you can see what they'd potentialy be used for. And of course some new uses were invented along the way that noone saw coming. But at least the potential was visible. Here this is much less so.

Less so? Having the ability to produce nearly any physical object (not electronics or special materials) at your heart's desire. Sign me up.

I mean, there's probably someone somewhere who can make it work. But it doesn't seem like something that'd become a household object anytime soon.

I guess we'll have to wait and let history decide. In 10-20 years I'd be surprised if the majority of homes (in first world nations) did not have one.

Can't be the worst deviation you've been a part of

It's up there.

 

[Canas]

Less so? Having the ability to produce nearly any physical object (not electronics or special materials) at your heart's desire. Sign me up.

With an expensive tool, that takes a lot of space especially if you want to print something bigger than a miniature. That most people will only use a couple of times a year at most. And that requires you to put together subassemblies. Also, the tool will require maintainance & cleaning. O and it probably requires some technical knowhow to actually operate. Gets even worse if you need a specific printer for a specific job, even if it is as minor as replacing the nozzle to print a more detailed object. Most people cannot be bothered with that.

For it to become a household object they'd need to fix those issues first. It's almost more important than the current lack of detail & time it takes to print anything.

To be honest I'd expect the most likely situation to be that you go and rent a printer (potentially with crew) whenever you need it or you go to a store that specialises in printing specific things and has a nice supply of patterns organised for you. It solves most of the potential issues that come with owning it yourself.

It's up there.

Well I'm glad I could be part of something special

 

[bOdziO Wolf]

Your off-topic actually quite interested me and I did a small research on the subject. 3D printing seems to be already consumer grade and as a service.
Speaking of miniature printing the most applicable technique is SLA (UV resin).

Printer and toolkit costs around your 2080 graphic card [1][2]. Printing on [2] also seems to be relatively easy as shown in [3].

Now if we want to speak about printing as a service a Google search around my place where I live yielded 2 results of companies doing print in SLA technique [4][5].

The only issue I see currently with 3D printing is the time it takes to create a detailed model, so starting your own Games Workshop is currently impossible due to scale issues.

1) https://www.myminifactory.com/product/elegoo-mars
2) https://www.anycubic.com/products/anycubic-photon-s
3)

4) https://cadevent.pl/druk-3d/
5) http://formakers.pl/

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

With an expensive tool

Expensive... today. Costs will come down.

takes a lot of space

That's what houses are for!

That most people will only use a couple of times a year at most.

We'll see. People own conventional printers.

. O and it probably requires some technical knowhow to actually operate.

This will become increasingly fool proof as time goes on. Remember, that currently the technology is still in its infancy.

 

[Canas]

Expensive... today. Costs will come down.

Well yeah, but I doubt it's ever going to be a cheap tool. I'd suspect it'd get stuck around the level of regular printers at best, probably a bit more expensive than those. Which aren't exactly cheap tools. Sure they're not super expensive, but it's not like normal people can afford to buy a new one every month.

That's what houses are for!

I can barely fit what I have in my appartement, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's yet another thing to try to fit in. And if you only use it a handfull of times it's not worth the effort. Admittadly, this will differ a lot depending on how large your house is obviously

Plus, if we ever start printing stuff that's bigger than a miniature at home it'l quickly require a room on its own, which is not something a lot of people will be able to afford.

We'll see. People own conventional printers.

Ironically that's been dying out as few people still need to print a lot now that everythings digital

This will become increasingly fool proof as time goes on. Remember, that currently the technology is still in its infancy.

Don't underestimate the power of fools

Plus, 3D printing has the double downside of both requiring the technical knowhow of how operate and maintain the printer & needing to know what to do with the result (for example when it comes in subassemblies, or when certain bits need to be cut off). That last part especially is probably going to require some effort to get the fools to do it right (if they ever manage )

Your off-topic actually quite interested me and I did a small research on the subject. 3D printing seems to be already consumer grade and as a service.

Yup, it exists. But it's super niche. The only people I know of who even bother to play around with 3D printers are a few gamers who want to make their own models (or just print free patterns) & some people who make toy robots or model airplanes and such for a hobby in their offtime and print custom parts.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Well yeah, but I doubt it's ever going to be a cheap tool. I'd suspect it'd get stuck around the level of regular printers at best, probably a bit more expensive than those. Which aren't exactly cheap tools. Sure they're not super expensive, but it's not like normal people can afford to buy a new one every month.

Conventional printers are very affordable today. Most people can easily afford them, even if they aren't exactly cheap.

I can barely fit what I have in my appartement, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's yet another thing to try to fit in. And if you only use it a handfull of times it's not worth the effort. Admittadly, this will differ a lot depending on how large your house is obviously

That's true, it does depend on the size of one's home. In apartments it will be much more difficult... in an average sized house, not so much so.

Ironically that's been dying out as few people still need to print a lot now that everythings digital

I can think of very few people in my life who don't actually own a conventional printer. They might very well become obsolete as things move further into the digital direction... but that just leaves more room for the future 3d printers.

Plus, 3D printing has the double downside of both requiring the technical knowhow of how operate and maintain the printer & needing to know what to do with the result (for example when it comes in subassemblies, or when certain bits need to be cut off). That last part especially is probably going to require some effort to get the fools to do it right (if they ever manage )

My point is that it will be easier to operate in the future. Early computers for instance were much harder to navigate than current ones. Plus, for the next generation, they will have grown up with it. Just consider how easily 4 & 5 year olds are operating tablets today.

 

[Canas]

Conventional printers are very affordable today. Most people can easily afford them, even if they aren't exactly cheap.

Yup, but it's expensive enough that you're not going to buy it on a whim. And expensive enough for example that I never bothered buying one for the few times I needed to print something (got one for free randomly with a laptop at one point though which was a bit of a surprise...)

That's true, it does depend on the size of one's home. In apartments it will be much more difficult... in an average sized house, not so much so.

It'l fit in a house, worst case you just move some stuff around. but it's yet more stuff that needs space.

I can think of very few people in my life who don't actually own a conventional printer. They might very well become obsolete as things move further into the digital direction... but that just leaves more room for the future 3d printers.

The only ones I know that actually still have a conventional printer are our parents. The various "kids" only need to print something maybe once a year and just do that at their parents or at work or something. It's quite funny.

My point is that it will be easier to operate in the future. Early computers for instance were much harder to navigate than current ones. Plus, for the next generation, they will have grown up with it. Just consider how easily 4 & 5 year olds are operating tablets today.

True, once it becomes commonplace it'l be less of an issue. Getting it to become commonplace is the tricky bit though

Though I don't think having to cut of extra bits of plastic, or assemble subassemblies is ever going to be "easier". Again there's people that struggle with ikea furniture, so yeah... The pure technical bit of operating the machine should be fine given enough time to practise and grow up with it.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Yup, but it's expensive enough that you're not going to buy it on a whim. And expensive enough for example that I never bothered buying one for the few times I needed to print something (got one for free randomly with a laptop at one point though which was a bit of a surprise...)

They're pretty cheap here in Canada unless you go ultra-high end. But even the cheap ones produce great quality printouts.

It'l fit in a house, worst case you just move some stuff around. but it's yet more stuff that needs space.

It does require space, but not that much of it. At most a cubic meter? My house is average sized and I could easily put one in with very little effort or rearrangement.

 

[Canas]

It does require space, but not that much of it. At most a cubic meter? My house is average sized and I could easily put one in with very little effort or rearrangement.

meh, I'm currently struggling to even have a desk of my own. It's surprisingly easy to run out of space. Depends a lot on where you live though and the type of houses that are common. It's a much bigger deal in my appartment than it is in my parents' house despite my parents' still largely maintaining the childerens' rooms for whenever we visit. What would worry me more though is if you'd want to print bigger things (e.g. furniture). Which imho is also the most interesting thing to print yourself as those tend to be more expensive. Printing cups doesn't seem like much of an advantage. Printing a new dinner table, bed & closet seems quite a lot better in terms of costsavings.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

meh, I'm currently struggling to even have a desk of my own. It's surprisingly easy to run out of space. Depends a lot on where you live though and the type of houses that are common. It's a much bigger deal in my appartment than it is in my parents' house despite my parents' still largely maintaining the childerens' rooms for whenever we visit. What would worry me more though is if you'd want to print bigger things (e.g. furniture). Which imho is also the most interesting thing to print yourself as those tend to be more expensive. Printing cups doesn't seem like much of an advantage. Printing a new dinner table, bed & closet seems quite a lot better in terms of costsavings.

I can't really see printing furniture at home becoming that common place. In that case, you'd need to have a huge printer and the storage of very large quantities of plastic/resin.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I can't really see printing furniture at home becoming that common place. In that case, you'd need to have a huge printer and the storage of very large quantities of plastic/resin.

You could always go IKEA and 3D-Print flat-pack furniture instead

 

[Canas]

I can't really see printing furniture at home becoming that common place. In that case, you'd need to have a huge printer and the storage of very large quantities of plastic/resin.

yeah, but if you're not going to print the large things what are you going to print as a normal person? Most people don't wouldn't print the 100's of models we'd print. And most other small objects you only really need a small amount of and don't replace that often (e.g. cuttlery, or cups or something).

You could always go IKEA and 3D-Print flat-pack furniture instead

Probably the most likely end result yeah

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

yeah, but if you're not going to print the large things what are you going to print as a normal person? Most people don't wouldn't print the 100's of models we'd print. And most other small objects you only really need a small amount of and don't replace that often (e.g. cuttlery, or cups or something).

That will differ from person to person. I'm not going to attempt to compile of list everything that people may want to print. Almost anything that can fit inside of the printer is fair game, from cell phone cases to kids toys to decorative light switch covers.

 

[Canas]

That will differ from person to person. I'm not going to attempt to compile of list everything that people may want to print. Almost anything that can fit inside of the printer is fair game, from cell phone cases to kids toys to decorative light switch covers.

mm, toys might be a decent one I guess. Depends on how easy it is to make em pretty and how much subassembly is required. That's one of the few things that's actually fairly common and you need a fair amount of for quite a long period of time. The rest tends to be one-off things that you need at most like once a year if that.