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AoS Seraphon Battletome Fluff - An Illustrated Review

spawning of Bob
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spawning of Bob

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pendrake said:
I have an army of Lizards; its home base is a lost city in a steamy, swampy jungle...
[18 words]

My army of ratlings can appear anywhere; out of tunnels that lead back to a secret underground warren...
[18 words]

Bretonnians: an army of resplendent, noble knights, based out of castles; fighting alongside, hippogriffs, princesses, and fiery dragons...[18 words]
Click to expand...

Methinks Mr Pendrake needs to pull out his sharpie and pen a new set of 18 words.


I've had the Battletome for a few days, and have been heard making some vaguely negative comments so far, but I haven't regretted my purchase. Considering the storm of disappointment that came the 8th Edition LM Army book drop, I feel like the reasonably muted response this time was because everyone had set their expectations nice and low, and that GW didn't actually nerf anything that had survived the End of 8th.

I'll mention the art which I deem to be "entertaining" and "for the masses". It is pretty, but a lot of it just doesn't give the sort of dark and gritty feeling that we knew from previous releases. If you focus on some of the background figures you will see a bit of computer-duplicated characters, and some really dorky looking lizards. The Razordon on page 40 is just plain awful.

Generally the skinks look like saurus should, the saurus look fat, and the kroxigor aren't enough bigger than saurus to stand out. I feel like the artists hadn't handled the actual models before being let loose with the crayons.

Scale colouration doesn't differentiate critter-type in the big battle scenes making it harder to tell who is who. Battle scenes are mostly variations of "Lizard and XXX battlelines about to meet. Everyone roaring with their tongues sticking out."

In a backwards kind of way I am inspired by the art. This is because it isn't that far above my own ability (or that of a number of artists on this site). I feel like if I had a few lessons in obscuring difficult things (like feet) in smoke or out of frame, could do better shadows and aerial perspective, and if I had the attention span, I could contribute.

If GW followed my style of putting both eyes on one side of the head, I would be happy to meet them half way.



The models in the book are mostly inspiring for the right reasons. I love the boldness of the scale colouration and the free hand shield icons - (although it is too bold for me to use on my own table-top army).

The basing colour and texture is fairly uninspired, but I have to say, round and oval bases and loose formations are better suited to epic miniature photography than ranked up squares. Even if your horde of saurus are identical, you can vary the angle of each one to give less of a feeling of uniformity.

There are a couple of models in the "Warscrolls" section which were just not at a super high standard of painting / assembly. The salamander on page 121 is exhibit A. I couldn't have painted it that precisely, but I would have done some fettling with the base or feet to make the feet actually hit the ground solidly. And there are a number of models, including that one, which would have looked better with a quick layer of wet - look lacquer, even if only on the teeth and interior of the mouth.

I'm being picky now, but the benchmark carnosaur on page 66 has a prominent join line in the middle of its snout, full of sepia wash. If you or I took that photo for a competition we would have taken the model and touched it up.

Or photoshopped it.

Which is illegal.

Overall, the miniatures are gorgeous.

End of Part 1
 
Feeling uncomfortable but not disappointed from the feedback so far. Would appreciate a review of how the LM fluff has developed from "steamy, swampy Lustria..." to "we're all made of stars".

What I've heard: Space-born survivors follow Sigmar's trail after he rides off on the remains of the Old World. Upon finding the Mortal Realms they settle in "High Azyr". The Slann rebirth le dinosaurs from memories, and the LM are reborn as Seraphon via the stars (hence Azyrite blood). The Seraphon form actual constellations which can be summoned to anywhere in the mortal realms. The Slann's perspective allows them a view of the Realms even the Chaos Gods don't have, and are now playing the Chaos Gods in the Great Game by exploiting Chaos's inherent weakness - as abstract manifestations the Chaos Gods have unchanging motivations.

How close am I?
 
Your summary sounds about right, but I haven't looked at the "sounds a bit like Scientology events leading up to now" in any detail. My plan for tomorrow was to contrast how the Seraphon contrast in position, motivation and orientation from classic LM. My feeling is that it isn't overall nearly as dumb as the Sigmarines back ground.

Just going by the entries in the last two short story comps, I can say that there's scope to build interesting narratives out of the new fluff, but I need to get my head around the changes.

For the record, I come from the land down under and don't regret spending my money on the standard edition book.
 
So what happened to the Lizardmen cities that where saved by Kroak and the like ?
 
n810 said:
So what happened to the Lizardmen cities that where saved by Kroak and the like ?
Click to expand...

It says in the book that Dracothion beckoned the slann to him, and when I read that, I thought of the Exodus Engines flying off towards the Great Drake constellation. Just a guess, it doesn't really make any mention of the Exodus Engines though. The most it really says about the Old World is that Dracothion shed a tear when he heard that bad things had happened to the Old World, and no detail on what happened other than that Chaos had a hand in its fall.
 
spawning of Bob said:
I've had the Battletome for a few days, and have been heard making some vaguely negative comments so far, but I haven't regretted my purchase.
Click to expand...

I honestly want to know if you are being sarcastic there.

I have read pretty much everything you ever wrote. We both joined the forums at roughly the same time. I can't remember you ever being this negative about anything before.

I can't find the appropriate article on TV Tropes, so I'll explain what this made me think of. You are overall so positive and upbeat about things that when you are a little bit negative, I think "uh-oh Bob is REALLY upset."

Sort of the opposite when a very stern curmudgeonly person says "It's pretty good." you think wow this must be AMAZINGING if ______ likes it.

My instincts tell me the quoted statement above is true, so I can only conclude with the Bob filter, the art is REALLY good, everything else is nigh worthless.

Or my notion of the Bob filter is completely off.
 
pendrake said:
I may need new fluff:

"I have an army of Lizards; its home base is a lost city in a steamy, swampy jungle...somewhere beyond the stars."

:shifty: I dunno; seems wordy.
Click to expand...

Well, GW have already solved your loquacity problem. You can drop eight of those words already.

spawning of Bob said:
I've had the Battletome for a few days, and have been heard making some vaguely negative comments so far, but I haven't regretted my purchase.
Click to expand...
and
Scalenex said:
I honestly want to know if you are being sarcastic there.
Click to expand...

This is a complex situation. Some of my esteemed brethren have said things like, "Buy this book for the art alone." but in my opinion it isn't the high water mark of LM art. Although at least nothing has a "draft" watermark on it.

BUT the book as a whole is a lovely thing to hold and look at and the art / models / words are laid out in a very cohesive and well organised way. I like the mood and abstract-ness of the 8th Ed book art better. The Seraphon book, as a visual package, is a gorgeous and inspiring coffee table book, not a well illustrated reference book.

As for your rude comments, poo to you with trogs on.
 
Part 2 (page references in brackets)

I truly can't be bothered understanding how the End Times led to the dissolution of the world and how "the Age of Myth" was full of happy and cooperative gods and the how that all went to skyte and Chaos and stuff and then Sigmar stopped having a tantrum and decided to reclaim the Chaos-shat-on mortal realms for the forces of niceness. Mortals and stuff in the mortal realms suddenly had Sigmar's eternals appear - I think they are long dead warrior souls "forged anew with the extra-shiny steel of Grudgy". They tend to die, but who cares, because they can be reforged over and over. Sigmar supports recycling.

Like I said, who cares?




So. Slann.

"Survivors of a bygone age who bore witness to the birth of the Eight Realms. To their....minds the past, present and future blur together, though in their rare moments of lucidity they bend all their sorcerous might towards the downfall of Chaos" (29)

Why?

"Long ago the slann and their seraphon ruled a vast and mighty empire connected by glimmering temple cities. Their sacred duty was to protect the world from the Chaos Gods, whose very existence is anathema to the profoundly rational slann. In that duty they failed." (4)

So they are a bit grumpy.

"Impossibly ancient, Only the slann have survived through force of will alone." (4)

So where have they been? "Time and their journey across the void have taken its toll on the slann...." (29)

So, in the void then. "Tales tell of blah blah blah" is a common intro to a few sections where GW wants to give a vague notion but not details.



The bit above, from The Old man of the Toe, was beside this image. They look a lot like flying temple cities, don't they, @Slanputin.

144507-sjlET0.jpg


Or something Necron.

Anyhow, "The true power of the seraphon, however, lies not in their magic or strength of arms, but in the unfathomable plan that guides their every deed.... the slann have pondered long and carefully on how best to destroy their foe.

To the slann, the Mortal Realms are a great game board upon which the armies of Chaos will be fought and defeated. Playing each piece with precision, they are able to look many moves ahead of their enemy, engaging them in battle when and where they choose... blah blah blah" (10)

So. That's the Slann. They are sort of vague in a timey-wimey way, not particularly sleepy and have no pesky Great Plan to divert their attention. Some have died, but still inhabit their crispy remains as constructs of celestial magic. They are all pretty cross, and their only stated purpose is to make the universe nice and tidy.

Tremble all ye scions of the Dark Powers and ye who doth not keep thine sock drawer tidy!

End of transmission.
 
Part 3

So, gods.

Ever thought how inconvenient they were? Not any more!

Dracothion, the Star Drake / Great Drake can let out a godly lament (in the copied section above). That makes him a god, right?

Seraphon come from constellations of stars. These have familiar names such as the "Fangs of Sotek", "Tlazcotl's Gaze", "Tzunki's Claw" and "Yutlpoc's Quill"

That last one isn't as familiar to me, but @The Sauric Ace would appreciate the inclusion of a previously unknown feathered space-chicken god.

Those are the ONLY references to specific old-fluff gods in this book and the only other vague reference to Seraphon even using gods for purposes other than naming stars is in the unit description for Oldbloods, who are described as striding into batlle "like proud reptilian gods."

In short, there are no references to the Old Ones, and no indication that the Seraphon honour any gods (even Sotek) in a practical way.

This means no Great Plan, no inscrutable plaques, no accountability to a higher power to make a general doubt his decisions and, worse than that, no reason for buckets of blood on sacrificial altars.

Rats.







Have never had it so good!
 
spawning of Bob said:
That last one isn't as familiar to me, but @The Sauric Ace would appreciate the inclusion of a previously unknown feathered space-chicken god.
Click to expand...

You know me,I like all thing feathered! :D

Modern science tells us, that lots of dinosaurs had quill or feather like picto fibres on their tails, most ceratops and many other ornischians, not related to birds. Meaning that could be a reference to any dinosaur, really.

I'll take it as we are dealing with a great chicken, though and go to bed happy tonight :P
 
I've read all the 8th ed army books and a lot of the seventh ed books and a few sixth ed books. I read the DOW and LM 5th ed books.

5th seemed based on cheap puns and somewhat un-PC stereotypes and analags to history and common lore. 6th built up the fluff verse a bit more respectably by a small increment. I think the quality of GW fluff peaked with 7th edition. The 8th edition books basically copy and pasted the seventh ed fluff with minor tweaks to make it look like the units that popped up for the first time in 8th edition were there all along.

I would expect/hope LM religion would change, but I wouldn't want the Seraphon to turn atheist, agnostic, or even deist. See the way I see it, the Lizardmen had the only gods with any depth besides the four Lords of Chaos. The Old Ones and the Chaos gods were the only Warhammer gods that focused on the whole world. All the other gods focused on one Warhammer army. Except may the Great Maw which was more of an elemental force than a god. The other gods are all nationalistic icons, not gods.

The loss of the Old Ones is bad. Not quite as bad as losing a balancing system, the risk management magic phase, quasi-reasonable prices, and a nuanced movement phase beyond maximizing models in contact, but it's bad.
 
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