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8th Ed. wood elfs about to be updated, thoughts?
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Saurus
Sunchax
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Lizardmatt said:
Are you sure about this Matt? Sniper rule state: "A model with the sniper special rule can make a special sniper shot instead of shooting normally".
Is this not indicating that instead of the normal shooting, multiple shots and all you just make one special sniper shot?
I am not at all sure about how to interpret this.
Troglodon
Lizardmatt
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Sunchax said:
This was discussed ad nausium with maneaters when the book came out. "normally" would be shots hitting the unit, with no -1 to shoot. The consensus was that you do get all the normal stuff (in the case of maneaters, poison and multiple shots).
While it's good, you're looking at BS7, with -1 for sniper, -1 for multiple shots, and likely -1 for range or movement, possibly with -2 to hard cover if you put anything between you and the sniper. That puts the shooting in the area of 3+ to 5+ to hit, S3 vs T2 is 3+ to wound. For his cost, I'd say it's fair. It is a super squishy character. Odds are good I'll have used the scroll before I get whacked.
Tetto 'eko on the other hand is in trouble. Which is fine by me, he's too good anyway.
From a power perspective, I'm happier he didn't spend those points on more guys with truestrike arrows. Seriously, what do you do about a unit that marches 18", and fires at 30", always hitting on a 3+? And that's shooting at skirmishers in hard cover while marching and at long range.
Saurus
Sunchax
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Lizardmatt said:
Is there any FAQ for this? I can see this play out as, instead of normal shooting you get one special sniper shot. Or that you just get 1 minus to your normal shooting when you use sniper.. But then it could just have said so. ?
Saurus
Sunchax
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It would be quite interesting if he is allowed to shot as normal -1 with sniper, aka, use multiple shots or ignore armor shot (hawk eyes). Then he could use the bow of loren to have two shots without any armor save allowed against characters. With a beast mage that get a savage beast throug,h it would mean 5 shots without any armor saved allowed against a hero. Interesting indeed..
Troglodon
Lizardmatt
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Sunchax said:
Savage Beast gives you +3 attacks and +3 Strength in the close combat phase.
It does nothing for you in the shooting phase (otherwise, a High Elf handmaiden with the Reaver Bow would be even more awesome).
-Matt
Troglodon
Sleboda
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In the interest of promoting community discussion, here is my thought on this topic, based on a reply I sent to a PM I received:
I've just read both the Sniper rules and the Waystalker rules.
I think it all boils down to what we think the phrase "instead of shooting normally" (or whatever it says) means. Sniper can do their thing instead of taking a normal shot. What is normal? More importantly, what is "normal" for a Waystalker?
The way I see it, a Waystalker never takes a normal shot, in the sense that he will either have a magic bow or be shooting with the twice/no save rule. He does not appear to ever have an option to just fire one single "normal" bowshot.
If you wanted to be really, really pedantic about it, you could say he can never actually use his Sniper rule since he has no option to ever take a "normal" shot and thus cannot do something "instead" of that normal shot. Clearly that's not the case here, so you are left having to assume that "normal" for the Waystalker is his twice/no save shot and, possibly, his magic bow shot.
In that case, he would have to Snipe "instead" of those shots, just like you cannot use a Hex Scroll against a spell cast with Total Power since you need to be able to use it "instead" of dispelling (which you cannot do to a TP spell).
Now, I'm not sure that's what they meant, sort of like I'm pretty sure they "meant" for us to be able to use PF from rank #2, but it is what they wrote, so, for now, I'd say he gets to Snipe OR use his other types of shots.
I've just read both the Sniper rules and the Waystalker rules.
I think it all boils down to what we think the phrase "instead of shooting normally" (or whatever it says) means. Sniper can do their thing instead of taking a normal shot. What is normal? More importantly, what is "normal" for a Waystalker?
The way I see it, a Waystalker never takes a normal shot, in the sense that he will either have a magic bow or be shooting with the twice/no save rule. He does not appear to ever have an option to just fire one single "normal" bowshot.
If you wanted to be really, really pedantic about it, you could say he can never actually use his Sniper rule since he has no option to ever take a "normal" shot and thus cannot do something "instead" of that normal shot. Clearly that's not the case here, so you are left having to assume that "normal" for the Waystalker is his twice/no save shot and, possibly, his magic bow shot.
In that case, he would have to Snipe "instead" of those shots, just like you cannot use a Hex Scroll against a spell cast with Total Power since you need to be able to use it "instead" of dispelling (which you cannot do to a TP spell).
Now, I'm not sure that's what they meant, sort of like I'm pretty sure they "meant" for us to be able to use PF from rank #2, but it is what they wrote, so, for now, I'd say he gets to Snipe OR use his other types of shots.
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Putzfrau
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Sleboda said:
No, there has not been an official answer, or at least not in the Ogre Kingdom FAQ.
Honestly I don't know if theres an easy way to work it out. Might just have to default to dicing it out, or accept multi shots work with sniper as thats how it seems to be played more often then not. Maneaters get it, witch hunters get it.
In fact maneaters seem to be played with multi shots from brace of pistols, poison, AND sniping.
The "normal" shots in the sniper rule could merely be using normal in the sense of a "non sniping" shot, not normal in the sense of "with no special rules" as you stated. It would seem as if thats the definition that is used in the examples of maneaters/witch hunters.
There are precedents set.
Just fought a game against the new Wood Elves with my Dark Elves.
Waywatchers are every bit as terrifying as you think they are.
30 Glade Guard with double shots and a level 4 High mage IFing Hand of Glory whilst dodging any miscast result due to the lore attribute is the new filth.
Personally, I welcome our new Wood Elf overlords.
That is all.
Waywatchers are every bit as terrifying as you think they are.
30 Glade Guard with double shots and a level 4 High mage IFing Hand of Glory whilst dodging any miscast result due to the lore attribute is the new filth.
Personally, I welcome our new Wood Elf overlords.
That is all.
Troglodon
Lizardmatt
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GCPD said:
Don't forget about the Branch Wraith who joins the Glade Guard, just to cast the default life spell for a 5+ regeneration for the unit.
Hey, don't know if anyone has covered this yet, but there are a lot of benefits for the new wood elves to get themselves into forests.
Because of this, Comet of Casandora may be a really useful spell to have. You know where your opponent is trying to move his archers and other models, so you can place the counter right onto of the forest. You either force your opponent to move out of the forest, losing the benefits and giving them a move and shoot penalty or you drop a comet directly on top of their T3 models.
Could be a good reason to bring tetto'eko or go heavens on the priests.
Because of this, Comet of Casandora may be a really useful spell to have. You know where your opponent is trying to move his archers and other models, so you can place the counter right onto of the forest. You either force your opponent to move out of the forest, losing the benefits and giving them a move and shoot penalty or you drop a comet directly on top of their T3 models.
Could be a good reason to bring tetto'eko or go heavens on the priests.
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MI_Tiger
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Comet is never bad, but Wood Elves are still pretty mobile and they are likely to have more than one forest available. Remember that they get one free forest, and a magic item can give them D3 more (sure its expensive, but may be worth it depending on the list). Its an interesting idea, but I think Wood Elves are still one of the worst targets for Comet.
GCPD said:
Maybe we need to run saurus w/ a skink screen for the hard cover to shooting? Long range, multishot, hard cover is -4. With an average hand of glory, they hit on 5+, wound on 5+?, kill on 4-?
That's essentially what beastman have always done with ungor raiders when facing BS shooters.