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8th Ed. wood elfs about to be updated, thoughts?

hmm

All these banners that they (all elves) can take…we have one.
 
I'm going to have to wade in on this one as a dissenting voice I think.

I was playing Wood Elves for a good long time and then branched out (pun intended) to Lizardmen with their new 8th Ed book.

Wood Elves needed something to bring them up to date, but I'm distinctly underwhelmed to be honest and it's making me want to play with my new Lizardmen even more. The tree spirits have become a LOT worse in my opinion, especially dryads, and the one thing that Wood Elves did NOT need was worse combat/better shooting options.
They have 1 unit and 1 monster with S5 attacks (Rangers and Treeman).

Sure they've got a bunch of AP/Armour ignoring shots but there's so little punch in the army that I can't see any sort of solid core to it. Maybe some would say that's a good thing that fits the WE background, but at this (admittedly early) stage it is hard to see beyond a gunline with a couple of glass cannons. The army of almost liquid-like movement (skirmishers, no move penalty glade guard with S4 at short range) is gone, and for that I'm sad.

Each time I try and look at sorting a Wood Elf list I end up thinking, I'd rather play my lizardmen. Maybe that's because I'm a new Lizard player and don't have previous book comparisons to worry about. Maybe as an existing WE player, I'm feeling the same about the book change as you existing Lizardman players do about the new Liz book.

Maybe the grass/glade/jungle is just always greener on the other side...
 
Well when you put it in that perspective I feel better. What are the comments from other seasoned WE players? Positive, negative?
 
laribold said:
at this (admittedly early) stage it is hard to see beyond a gunline with a couple of glass cannons. The army of almost liquid-like movement (skirmishers, no move penalty glade guard with S4 at short range) is gone, and for that I'm sad.
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IMO wood elves are the army most similar in play style to the lizardmen.
 
Qupakoco said:
Well when you put it in that perspective I feel better. What are the comments from other seasoned WE players? Positive, negative?
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Somewhat positive. Bummed by dryad nerf since they're now utterly useless, quite happy with new magic arrows and wild riders.
 
I think that there's a lot of negativity about the Forest Spirit nerfs, but I actually think Treekin and Treemen do well out of it as they get significant points decreases. Sure they lost a pip of strength, but evidently the designer doesn't want these models to be winning many combats, and rather tanking something. The one exception is the Dryad nerf which I just cannot get my head around. Drop them down to 9 points per model and they are much more reasonable.

Still, its very fair to say that the army lacks high combat strength, capping out as it does at 5, but I think that's a completely reasonable (and fairly interesting) gameplay choice given that they have so much anti-armour at range. Having both would be a little too far, imo.

The mobility is all still there: just take the no modifiers arrow upgrade and move and shoot to your hearts' content - without having to worry about any other penalties, too! Or take the poison upgrade and play the Skink game. Losing S4 at short range is a blow, but again - can anyone say that they think that would have been reasonable to keep this when combined with poison shots, no modifier shots, flaming +1 to wound shots, or AP-3? Making it an arrow upgrade is also a bit too good when those bows are already Armour Piercing. S3 AP with the available upgrades seems very reasonable (My Dark Elf Crossbowmen would love Poison upgrades...).

The only Skirmish option lost is Dryads btw - all the others are still there, and with Scouting AP arrow upgrade Skirmishers in Special, ASF Wardancers, and the huge buffs to Wildriders and Waywatchers, arguably got better.
 
I don't have a copy of the spell to hand but will drain magic affect the leaked lore attributes for wood elves?

For High magic the wizard and unit gain a wound marker for each spell cast and for dark magic add a marker to the affected enemy unit and if you cast a further spell that does wounds add a further D3.

This seems to be a similar idea to the ward boost that high elves get and i was never sure how that was affected by drain magic.
 
I just can't think of a reason why wood elves wouldn't want the special woods that gives poison attacks.
It seems like they can choose the multiple shots arrows, and sit in a woods to gain the 3rd rank of shooting/attacks.

Units of 18 (small frontage) are dishing out 36 poisoned AP shots. You can easily get 2 units, possibly 3 into the free woods, and could take D3 more if you took that acorn.

I wonder if the wood elves can actually pull off an effective gunline now.

-Matt
 
Lizardmatt said:
I just can't think of a reason why wood elves wouldn't want the special woods that gives poison attacks.
It seems like they can choose the multiple shots arrows, and sit in a woods to gain the 3rd rank of shooting/attacks.
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The poisoned attacks via the Venom Thicket only apply to close combat attacks.
 
It still solid when you combine them with any Wood Elf combat unit, though.

Especially Eternal Guard. Who are Core. With WS5. And ASF. And fight in 4 ranks in a forest. And have AP. And are Stubborn.
 
GCPD said:
It still solid when you combine them with any Wood Elf combat unit, though.

Especially Eternal Guard. Who are Core. With WS5. And ASF. And fight in 4 ranks in a forest. And have AP. And are Stubborn.
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And I don't feel compelled to charge into that unit. You have to leave the woods if you want to do anything, unless you're just a really expensive bunker for a wizard.
Don't forget the re-rolls of 1's to wound while in the woods too.

-Matt
 
I have not looked at the book yet, but my initial impression is that Wood Elves would be challenging but not unreasonably difficult to fight in an all comers environment. They'd brutalize our various things with Skirmish but I think the rest of our stuff would hold up.

I think if we played a game where LM knew they were facing WEs and visa versa I think it would be slanted in our favor.

A Predatory/Monster Mash hybrid (with everything T4+) would be very hard to beat with Wood Elves and the lack of High strength attacks would really hinder them.
 
Lizardmatt said:
GCPD said:
It still solid when you combine them with any Wood Elf combat unit, though.

Especially Eternal Guard. Who are Core. With WS5. And ASF. And fight in 4 ranks in a forest. And have AP. And are Stubborn.
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And I don't feel compelled to charge into that unit. You have to leave the woods if you want to do anything, unless you're just a really expensive bunker for a wizard.
Don't forget the re-rolls of 1's to wound while in the woods too.

-Matt
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Fair comment, but I think that avoiding them is going to be harder than it sounds. Especially with the Acorn around you could be seeing over 4 forests on a table. But the point is that they are very good in a forest, and still good outside of one too at the points that you are paying.
 
The acorn won't be common. It's too expensive.
 
I disagree. Given what it brings the list, that there isn't really much else you'd want to take on a level 4, and that he can be suitably protected by the lore attribute of High Magic, I think that it will be quite popular.
 
Agreed. So much in the army is keyed to woods, the investment in the acorn seems almost required to get the most out of the points spent across the army.
 
I have to Disagree. The new wood elves are only going to win if they can shoot things away, wasting points on forests limits the number of shots you can put in the list. Particularly because taking the forests mean you HAVE to take a second wizard to carry the scroll, so thats even more points. Not to mention I don't think you can avoid not to take either shadow or death (probably shadow) on the lvl 4. And they are only 9x6". Plus who cares if Eternal guard are in a forest, they are still just elf spearmen, and how many units of those do you see in the other two armies? If a wood elf takes a unit of 20+ then thats a boat tonne less shooting, and that makes them easier to deal with.

I feel like the best WE lists going forward will be light on characters so they can have more shooting. I feel in the strongest lists the only core will be glade guard. LVL 4 on shadow in a 10 strong unit of sisters, BSB with hail of doom, maybe some of those WW heroes, 2 units of 10 WW, 2 eagles and a unit of wild riders to finish off depleted unit that sits at the back of the board for 4 turns.

Having read over the book, and various commentaries I can't see the new wood elves being that big on the tournament seen. I don't think they have what it takes to score 20-0. They might do well in W/L/D enviroments, but otherwise they don't have it. Their shooting is good, but expensive, and its not going to be possible to finish off units. I would imagine the opposing player is going to get off lots of buffs to protect their tropps from shooting as the WE player HAS to stop the MM from anhiliating all their naked troops. That said I think it will be almost impossible to 20-0 the new WE (apart from DE), they can easily preserve points and avoid charges.
 
I have a question related to the new book, will their waystalker (hero) be able to snipe with his hawk eye ability?
 
Sunchax said:
I have a question related to the new book, will their waystalker (hero) be able to snipe with his hawk eye ability?
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Yes. And with a 20 point magic bow, he'll get 2 shots with sniper and ignore armor. With BS7. He kills scroll caddies.

-Matt
 
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