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8th Ed. Why do people like ripperdactyls?

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Blackthorne

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So I'm actually kind of curious as to why these guys are so popular? Have been people using them with any amount of success? I haven't tried them yet, and from what they look like on paper, I can't imagine why I would.

I get that the frenzy + upgraded frenzy + KB + AP seems to have people excited, but what I don't get is why. At very best they have 6 attacks against only one unit. At WS3 too, which means they will need 4s to hit pretty much everything. That means 3 hits, so a 50% chance to get a single KB attack, IF you are against that one unit AND your in a game where there is infantry worth going for AND you roll the max number of extra attacks. Coming from playing TK and using a block of Tomb Guard in pretty much every game, it takes a lot of KB attacks to make it really useful. I mean, how many units are they really going after where the KB is great? It only works on infantry so the whole ogre army is right out, as is chariot spam WoC (both of which you are likely to face in any competitive arena). Armies like elves, the KB does pretty much nothing since their armor is basically negated by the s4 AP anyways. So what situations are people thinking of sending rippers into that some KB attacks are going to be incredibly useful? And if they don't get a KB, all it is is some s4 AP attacks, which is nothing to be that proud of. Just for reference, CoR have 4 s4 attacks each always, two of which have better WS and PF, they have better toughness and armor also (not to mention the Ld difference!). The only thing I see rippers having that are actually worth something that CoR don't is flying, but that hardly justifies the 10 more points you have to spend and sacrifices in almost every other regard.

Which brings me to my next point...them surviving. With only I3, how many of them are really going to get to swing before biting it? Frankly, their defensive statline is laughable seeing as skaven slaves could actually put a decent hurt on them. So the idea of charging into a wizard bunker to kill a lvl 4 doesn't even sound that great since it's distinctly possible they will die before getting the chance to do any work. I'm also having a hard time seeing them even successfully killing a caster. They charge in, and can only get one of them into base contact with the caster (they'll be on a corner and you have to maximize models in combat). That one can direct all of his attacks at the caster and the odds of killing him in one turn are slim, especially once you take into account any ward saves they might have. Then, you've almost certainly lost at least one ripper, most likely the combat too (maybe a rank, standard, and a couple of wounds traded back and forth) meaning you are either fleeing, or if you stick around, you've lost frenzy and now only have the base 2 attacks to try to do something with.

The only situation I can see these guys even being remotely useful is in war machine hunting. But why use these guys when for a minimum sized unit you can almost get 10 chamo skinks who can do the job starting from turn 1? They are so expensive that anything I can think of them doing, I see CoR, terradons, or chamo skinks doing better.

So now that my rant is over, I am actually wanting to know where people have used these guys to great effect? I like the models and would love to use them if I thought it was worth it, so can anybody give me a situation where these guys come out on top of the other options?
 
havnt used them yet but killing blow works on regular cav and negates the 1+ armour that most have. I played my first tournament this weekend and let me tell you I would have loved to have a unit or 2 of these to deal with knight units .
 
They can't be panicked off like Terradons from shooting. You can free reform them to face away from enemies if you don't want them charging. They seem pretty adept at chewing into mage-bunker type units or units of shooters who aren't great in close combat. In the flank of cav they can be deadly.

Personally I think I will always take a unit of 3, just because of what they can do. They are definitely a sacrifice unit, if you don't like the idea of taking a unit that you know will die, then they probably aren't for you.
 
I've used them in only one game so far(2X3) but let me just say a few things:
1. KB is psychological. You probably won't get it, but what if? It really freaks out your opponent.
2. The toad is a giant target. It really freaks out your opponent.
3. They are fast, they are cheapish, and for the moment expirience against them is limited. It freaks out your opponent.
(see the pattern here)
4. They actually don't die as much as their suggests. In combat, they should be in base to base with 7 models(for 20 mm)
That's why I prefer flanks to rears with them, cuz 7 deep is a rarish sight(or at least it's usually a tarpit, and not worth sending them into it)
5.I3 isn't slow, it's average. Basically a lot of simo, and against some higher I, hit the flank/go for small units/kill his warmachines. I also wish it was I4 but oh well.
6. They are multipurpose.
-The toads can make your opponent overprotective of his marked units.
-They can hunt warmachines.
-Thin big blocks(of cavalry and infantry alike).
-kill bunkers
-can help break ennemy units with sudden kill spikes
-clear chaff(I hesitate to put this one in due to frenzy)
-assassinate characters(can be a bit tough)
7. They're flying piranha's!!!!

All in all, they work better in multiple small units, keeps them cheap and makes them unpredictable. And if they're still alive at the end of the game, you probably were too conservative with them. Don't think of them as troops, but as missiles.
:beaver:
EDIT:they are also immune to panic.
 
They also have a better save than Terradons, due to the riders having shields. In total, I believe a 4+.

That might not be much, but it may keep enough models alive to charge something useful.

I think the real question should be: Why would you every take Terradons?
 
To-neh of LaTigra said:
They also have a better save than Terradons, due to the riders having shields. In total, I believe a 4+.

That might not be much, but it may keep enough models alive to charge something useful.

I think the real question should be: Why would you every take Terradons?
Click to expand...

Lack of Frenzy means they do not have to overrun, pursue, or test to avoid a frenzy charge.

Lack of Frenzy also means they may flee as a charge reaction. Combined with the fast cavalry rule, they can rally and move.

Finally, drop rocks can take out/cripple opposing light cavalry during the movement phase before you start shooting.
 
I wasn't a fan of Ripperdactyls either but the more I look at their rules, the more I think if your going to field them, you need multiple unitsof them in order to mark multiple units (from my interpretation, the units get bonuses from each-others toads as well as their own) and to add redundancy.

Another use for them is to screen steggies from cannons. Whilst granted they don't do it as well as razordons (due to no handlers and less wounds) they are also cheaper, and you are more likely to charge them in conjunction with the steg to add some weight of attacks to the impact hits and beefiness.
 
Agree with both sides of the argument here. Yeah rippers are unpredictable but they can make a good ouch on someone as a kamikaze unit. Like most have said, can't expect them to last too long but at least make it worth it by going out with a bang ;)


:chicken: *bang*
 
Like Caneghem said - Frenzy also means immune to psychology; no panic tests. With the loss of 1 LD for all skinks, a few simple wounds send your chameleons running for their lives (Well. Assuming it's a magic missile, since nothing else hits them reliable, we should be grateful if enough are alive to run :p). Same with Terradons, that panic if you lose just one model.

Besides, they don't strictly compare to a large block of Chameleons for war machine hunting, since they have to actually get to the enemy line. Most people I play against who have any experience with scouts don't leave their flank open for scouts to be able to deploy, run within 12'' to shoot the warmachine and not end up in melee. Flying Fast Cav is amazing for getting into position early

You're also mentioning 'at best 6 attacks, which means 3 hits'. Don't forget that they also get to reroll failed to hit against said targets (woo, 1½ more hits!). But aye, frontal charging enemy blocks to try and killing blow a mage probably isn't why you should bringing them.
 
being monstrous cav, they also get a stomp attack and they skink has 1 str 4 attack on the charge at i4. So if you charge a marked unit with a unit of 3 rippers you get 3 str4 attacks at i4, 12+3d3 ap str4 attacks at i3 that get rerolls to hit and 3 stomps. that's not to bad for 120 points.
 
I guess in the end it all depends on what you use them for.

Back when the last Lizardmen book came out, I couldn't get my Terradon to live long enough to drop rocks on anything. On the rare occasion that they did, I would then be in a bad position (i.e. with nothing to charge), or would miraculously get into CC only for their lack luster stats to do nothing.

So for me, Ripperdactyls do what I want the unit to do, without having to put them in akward positions for Drop rocks.

That is not to say that Terradons are bad. They are just bad for me. Feigned Flight is a nice tactic to imploy if you can make sure to be within range of you General and/or BSB when you rally.
 
So basically what I'm hearing in several forms is that they make good kamikaze units. But I still don't see how. Saying they are good because they can do damage and die and that's okay doesn't really cut it for me. 60ss for a min unit isn't cheap enough to throw away like that in my opinion unless you feel confident you can really put a hurt on. A handful of low-to-middling iniative attacks at ws3 with KB doesn't seem like a good enough investment to be happy about losing all those points.

@Morewar:
How is the KB psychological? Against tomb guard, I can see that since you are looking at 30ish KB attacks at WS5/6 most likely. Seeing maybe 20 at ws3 won't scare a smart player enough to make them seriously alter their course of action.

@ecksen:
I'm not really sure what armies you're facing that are slinging both magic missiles and have war machines that need protecting. There are a few, but for the most part, those two elements aren't often combined in a single army build. And frankly. if my opponent is spending his time slinging magic missiles at my skinks rather than the other stuff running up their battle lines, I'm kind of okay with that. Not to mention canny war machine players can also deploy to prevent your flying units from even being able to legally place their unit in combat with the war machine entirely depriving them of the chance to fight.



Overall, I'm still not entirely convinced, though I do think they are more useful than before. Going after cav support units is a good call but I think that their points are better spent on a couple of razordons, a salamander (or two for a few more points), a CoR unit 5-strong, or what I want to try out next, which is a skink chief on terradon with egg of quango.
 
I play skaven and if I am not fielding at least 3 wizards capable of seriously damaging spells including warplighting and warplightening cannons... then I am probably not doing it right.
 
Well they psychological because the with the toad markers they can do some real damage the toad maker as well as d3+1frenzy you also reroll to hit ( which is every turn unlike hatred )which helps the ws3

Also it has the ability to kill most wizards with the toad and the killing blow
60ss sounds a lot but even a bear bones lvl4 empire wizard is 100ss which as well as getting more than there points cost back they also really effects the opponents ability to defend against your magic and or cast stuff at the rest of the army

This means that while the opponents trying to deal with the ripperdactyl on turn one maybe two (if they live that long I didn't say there impossible to kill ) the rest of the army can march up unimpeded


Imho
 
I already killed characters with them, I'm sold on kamikaze. They need to prove if they can handle chaff like light cav and charge chariots and I can decide on them.
 
Looking at terradons and rippers the rippers trade away their rocks for uber-frenzy and a slightly better armour save. Personally I tjink they are worth their points, and the models look great. On the other hand terradons get much better when combined with Tiktaq'to (or they will just as soon as the faq him to be able to join units).
 
After drop rocks and assaulting war machines my terradons don't contribute much. Rippers? If I'm smart, they can kill a lot of strategic things. I boosted hand of glory on them and it was tasty. Oh so tasty. Then they died.
 
Terradons should be viewed in the same role as Dark Riders or Ellyrian Reavers: they are Fast Cavalry, useful in harassment and redirecting. But you shouldn't really expect to get much out of them in combat unless its war machine crews. You use them to delay unfavourable engagements that you don't want to fight, or force favourable ones that you know you can win.

Ripperdactyls are entirely different as they are completely combat orientated. They can hunt down chaff if needed, but I think they are much better as a psychological threat (pouncing on unengaged flanks or taking their Bloat Toads by surprise) and in power projection. They are a tool to go out and get points, and I think they'll do pretty well in that regard in a infantry army.
 
i
LOVE
them

if only they had heroic killing blow...
 
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