7th Ed. Which Lore to take vs Empire

[KroxigorsFTW]

Hello, i will be having a game against my friend who will be using empire. I was wondering, shoul d i take a Slaan what spells should i be aiming for if I 1) Take the lern a whole lore or 2) Randomly select spells?

For whole lore, i was thinking life for attacking things on terrain, or metal for shutting down knights, war machines and magic items.

For independant spell, i was thinking some fire stuff, rule of burning Iron... but that's all i've got so far.

Any advice will be greatly apreciated, thanks.

 

[Eagleblaze]

A few notes

Metal is always great against empire. Nerfing those greatswords and knights is always a fun way to annoy the hell out of your opponent although not the best way to go in a friendly game.

I can't remember the specific lore but there is a spell which causes rain to soak a target and that spell can effectively nerf enemy shooting by soaking gunpowder and bow strings.

The heaven lore isn't bad against empire...

-Eagle-

 

[hellbreaker]

I can't remember the specific lore but there is a spell which causes rain to soak a target and that spell can effectively nerf enemy shooting by soaking gunpowder and bow strings.

I think that's lore of life...

Lore of metal is indeed a good choice, and lore of life too... Lore of heavens and lore of shadows are worth considering too.

Cheers!

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Fire could be good for its utter destruction.....

 

[Conar]

Personally I'd chose either of the 3 mentioned depending on what your against

Fire - lots of small units
Life - lots of artillery / gunline
Metal - lots of cavalry

My 2 cents

Conar

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

Thanks for all the advice.

Sorry for getting all picky, but can you say which lore you think is best, and which spells i should be going for? Or if i should take the whole lore, right now it looks like the whole metal lore (for shutting down knights and cannons) or whole life (for soaking things or attacking from forest, hils etc.)

I have no idea which individual spells to go for, besides the armour modified metal ones, and the life ones that attack from terrain... Oh and there's always fire ball....

 

[Aranigej]

I would go for metal and if it is within your points budget I would take the whole lore. There are not so many things in the LM army that are able to deal with heavily armoured troops as efficiently as the lore of metal. Don't forget to also take that thing of the slann which allows you to add an extra power dice (focused rumination I think but not sure on the name since I don't have the book with me).

Your first priority should be knights and characters in units, if armoured (spell number 1). This will greatly turn things in your favour since not many other things can hurt you badly.

I would suggest taking terradons for warmachines/fast cavalry. Drop rocks works beautifully on fast cavalry.

 

[Nosreme]

I don't have much to add. Everyone pretty much covered it. I totally agree that the best lores are Metal, Fire and Heavens. Metal is especially useful, especially versus warrrior priest or knight heavy lists.

I always pay to know all the spells in a lore - it's just that useful.

 

[Eagleblaze]

I do definitly recommend trying the lore of life if faced with a gun-toting battleline....

Within 12" of hills <
If successfully cast, shards of stone erupt
from the ground and fly against the unit,
inflicting D6 Strength 5 hits on the unit
(D6 Strength 6 hits if the unit is partially
or wholly within the feature).

Within 24" inches
All soaked models suffer a further -1
modifier on their shooting to hit rolls,
increased to -2 if the model’s weapon
has the armour piercing rule. If the unit
does not fire using BS (a cannon, for
example), then it may only fire if the
player can first roll a 4+ on a D6 each
turn. There is no additional effect for
being soaked more than once.

Yes execution is one aspect of the game, but Life could work as a nice deterent against gun-lines, I'll try it eventually....

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

I would go for metal and if it is within your points budget I would take the whole lore. There are not so many things in the LM army that are able to deal with heavily armoured troops as efficiently as the lore of metal. Don't forget to also take that thing of the slann which allows you to add an extra power dice (focused rumination I think but not sure on the name since I don't have the book with me).

Your first priority should be knights and characters in units, if armoured (spell number 1). This will greatly turn things in your favour since not many other things can hurt you badly.

I would suggest taking terradons for warmachines/fast cavalry. Drop rocks works beautifully on fast cavalry.

This was my first thought and am still thinking about it, because of its complete and total ass-ness to heavily armoured things, and for the first spell non the less (and later on, there's the same spell, but 2D6
)

About the extra PD thing, that's how i run my slaan, (its abit pricy and people may not agree with it, but this is how im going to use one.) But its, Slaan, diadem of power, +1PD, whole lore and soul of stone. I was also thinking of trancendend healing.... (if i think its needed.)

I was thinking of this lore becuse of its pure destructive power vs war machines, havily armoured things, and the ability to rob things of their magic items, making their CC potential worse, can take out many thingsvwith a pretty cool magic missile

I must say, the lore of metal is most definatly my favorite... so far.

I do definitly recommend trying the lore of life if faced with a gun-toting battleline....

Within 12" of hills <
If successfully cast, shards of stone erupt
from the ground and fly against the unit,
inflicting D6 Strength 5 hits on the unit
(D6 Strength 6 hits if the unit is partially
or wholly within the feature).

Within 24" inches
All soaked models suffer a further -1
modifier on their shooting to hit rolls,
increased to -2 if the model’s weapon
has the armour piercing rule. If the unit
does not fire using BS (a cannon, for
example), then it may only fire if the
player can first roll a 4+ on a D6 each
turn. There is no additional effect for
being soaked more than once.

Yes execution is one aspect of the game, but Life could work as a nice deterent against gun-lines, I'll try it eventually....

Those wre the EXACT two spells i'd be going for if i didn't choose 1 whole lore, and they are the reasons i'd take the lore, well, that and the howler wind (no S4 shooting can be targeted at units within 12" of the wizard, doesn't effect war machines.)

I was thnkng of this lore for preseving my units from shooting, by menas of soaking, the wind and healing...

I chuckled at these two posts (not for a bad reason) because they were the reason why i was going to take both of these lores that have just been described (though, most of that meal stuff, and the other Life stuff all came form reading them again. It also seems that these are the best lores for what i need.)


Thanks guys.

 

[Dumbledore]

About the extra PD thing, that's how i run my slaan, (its abit pricy and people may not agree with it, but this is how im going to use one.) But its, Slaan, diadem of power, +1PD, whole lore and soul of stone

I wouldn't go for soul of stone but rather cupped hands instead, especially after considering the FAQ. Diadem adds flexibility but is a waste on a slann imo as you want to use all his dice so you get more free ones, so maybe get a scroll instead.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

About the extra PD thing, that's how i run my slaan, (its abit pricy and people may not agree with it, but this is how im going to use one.) But its, Slaan, diadem of power, +1PD, whole lore and soul of stone

I wouldn't go for soul of stone but rather cupped hands instead, especially after considering the FAQ. Diadem adds flexibility but is a waste on a slann imo as you want to use all his dice so you get more free ones, so maybe get a scroll instead.

Well, the diadem is the reason i use the +1 PD thing, to compensate.... maybe i could chuck it onto a skink priest or something..... Also, seeing as the diadem is at the end of the phase, i can use all my PD if i think i need to.

What's so good in the FAQ that should make me change my mind about sould of stone? With sould of stone, i can reroll the effect EVERY time, and for 5 points more no less. Cupped hands lets me transfer it, but only once.... I was actually toying with the idea of both, so if i get "good" result on the table, i could reroll for a better one if there was a target near.... but then that's be 2 arcane items with with the diadem...

Thanks for the feedback BTW.

 

[Dumbledore]

You guys will have to correct me on this but I'm like 90% sure that soul of stone can't re-roll a roll of 2. If it could then soul of stone would be fantastic. The BRB says that a roll of 2 cannot be changed or affected by anything, so I guess that cupped hands is the exceptions (I certainly never expected them to take that reaction to it in the FAQ). Cupped is now great both because of that and the fact that you can save it for a really nasty miscast if you get a totally minor one first time. Also, unless you are playing against DE with hotek statistically you can expect 1-2 miscasts a game from a Slann (of course there will be a game where someone gets 7 miscasts in 3 rounds losing their slann and 15 TG or something silly but anything more than 2 in six turns can be considered exceptional). This makes cupped hands pretty efficient, especiallu as it can be a nasty surprise for an enemy wizard. The only shame is that it only works 5/6 of the time.

To reiterate the point you actually asked for I would take soul of stone over cupped hands every time if it allowed re-rolls of 2 on the miscast table, but I don't think you can.

 

[Jive Professor]

I am almost positive Soul of Stone allows any reroll, there is no specification of the "degree" of the miscast. I will check the BRB later on miscasts to see if there is any stipulation about it.

As an Empire player, I will tell you right now that Lore of Metal scares the poofy pants off me. The thing about the Empire is that it relies on a stable battle line, and the most common theme is to simply have no flanks - just have one enormous battle line that stretches from table edge to table edge. 20 Swordsmen with FC is 145 - not exactly breaking the bank. Add in two detachments and a 5-man Knight Unit with a Musician (all told around 350 points the way I build em) and you have a broad deployment that is quite self-sufficient. Multiple this two or three times, add in some gunpowder and magic defense, and you have a typical Empire army. Fire is good for causing panic checks, but the key is to hit specific points in the line to open up gaps in this sort of deployment.

Empire Knights are generally the cheapest and most effective lynchpins in the Empire Order of Battle. For 123 points you get 5 Knights + Musician. Cheap enough to be expendable, but with a 1+ save and Ld 8 they are reliable enough to go without more "elite" troops. These guys are the "door closers" so to speak. By way of example, an Empire infantry block wants to get charged in the front, counter-charge/shoot with detachments, and win or hold firm via static res. Then these units of 5 knights come in on the flank - they don't have a lot of hitting power, but the flank +1, negation of ranks, 1-2 kills they generate, addition of manpower, and high AS to deny attacks back makes them perfect. Plus they then pursue 3D6.

Lore of Metal scares the hell out of these guys. 1+ save is essentially a death sentence against Metal. Removing these little 5-man groups should be no sweat for the Slann who brings metal, and then the Empire loses its crucial sweepers - combats go longer, increasing the likelihood of the blocks crumbling and the entire battle line falling apart.

Metal is king against Empire.

 

[Jive Professor]

There is nothing I can find in the BRB stipulating that a 2 result on a Miscast cannot be affected my an item. And as always, the exception trumps - that is why it is the exception.

 

[WheelR]

Taking Soul of Stone instead of Cupped Hands? That means you either got one expensive Slann or you don't know a whole lore. Since i am not a big fan of the Plague because i don't want to risk that i won't get that particular spell i need i always take the 2 Focus's. I don't see the use of re-rolling your miscast.. You roll 5-8 most of the time.. and those are the 2 you are happy to take.. as far you can be happy with a miscast of course.

But on Topic.. Lore of Metal the way to go.. Maybe I'd even pick shadow just because i love Creeping Death.

 

[Dumbledore]

There is nothing I can find in the BRB stipulating that a 2 result on a Miscast cannot be affected my an item. And as always, the exception trumps - that is why it is the exception.

The first place to look would be the miscast table entry for rolling a 2

"The wizard is annihilated and immediately removed as a casualty, regardless of any protective magic item or special rule he might have..."

That's why the cupped hands' ruling in the FAQ was exceptional and that's why I sincerely doubt soul of stone works for a 2. If soul of stone did work like that it would be brilliant as you would have a 0.07716...% chance of getting a 2, ie never ever (1/1296)

 

[Jive Professor]

There is nothing I can find in the BRB stipulating that a 2 result on a Miscast cannot be affected my an item. And as always, the exception trumps - that is why it is the exception.

The first place to look would be the miscast table entry for rolling a 2

"The wizard is annihilated and immediately removed as a casualty, regardless of any protective magic item or special rule he might have..."

That's why the cupped hands' ruling in the FAQ was exceptional and that's why I sincerely doubt soul of stone works for a 2. If soul of stone did work like that it would be brilliant as you would have a 0.07716...% chance of getting a 2, ie never ever (1/1296)

Wow, maybe I need my eyes cheked. I read through it andidn't see it. Weird.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

So, in conclusion, lore of metal (whole lore,) +1 PD and cupped hands?

 

[Jive Professor]

Yes, and the Discipline that gives the full lore.