• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

7th Ed. Where do we stand?

On a five tier system, where do you feel lizards sit?

  • Tier one

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • Tier Two

    Votes: 22 73.3%

  • Tier Three

    Votes: 4 13.3%

  • Tier Four

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • Tier Five

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    30
Serpentsire
Saurus

Serpentsire

New Member
Messages
93
Likes Received
0
Trophy Points
0
So, it has been awhile since I have seen new tier lists, and now that Skaven are out (practically) there will be some shifts in power. I feel like lizards were the only ones redone who didn't get powered up to awesome levels, but maybe it is just me. I personally feel we are below Daemons, Vampires, warriors of Chaos, and Dark elves tier wise, and I fear Skaven will pass us as well. Not that we can't beat them, just that it is easier for them to win.
 
I think its too hard to judge Skaven until they have been out ofr a couple of months. On paper they seem a bit similar to Dark Elves to me; they have some average stuff and some really insanely powerful stuff. A tournie player looking to bend them will be tier 1, maybe a bit behind daemons but at least VC if not ahead. A fluff lover playing for the fun of it will have fun, and some games wreck the enemy and other games half destroy his own army for you. An average list with a mix of both will be tier2-3, IMO right where the LM sit.

We didn't get any crazy powerful stuff, I mean the engine is good but easy to neutralise. Overall its a very solid list, probably around balanced DE, warriors of chaos and a touch higher than HE.
 
Crap, I might be a noob for not knowing this, but...

Is tier one super tough, or the lowest tier the tougher one...

I went with higher numbers, because for some reason my brain said that seemed logically...but after clicking I realized that it was probably the other way around, and reading your comments gave me a similar perspective. I hope I didn't ruin the poll because I'm hasty and ignorant, Lol.

Regardless of what I clicked, I beleive lizardmen are like a "second-best" army. Not literally "blank" then "lizardmen" then "blank", but that they are on a level one below the better ones...

Though I don't find that as a weakness at all, the army is/can be colorful, it IS fun, and it's balanced. We can match up against anything and have a pretty solid 50/50 chance of winning. I love that because it makes the army need more skill to play, but you don't have to pull your hair out just to win.

:D
 
okay, rankings as I see them at the moment (Skaven based on what I am certain is in the new book)

Tier 1:Daemons, Skaven, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves
Tier 2:High Elves, Warriors of Chaos,
Tier 2.5:Empire, Lizardmen
Tier 3:Brettonia, Dwarves, Wood Elves
Tier 4:Ogres, Tomb Kings
Tier 5:Beasts of Chaos, Orcs and Goblins
 
Deadgrass, what are you smoking?
Lizardmen and Empire on the same tier?

This is what I've seen in all the tournaments I've been too...

Tier 1: Daemons, Skaven*, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves
Tier 2: Lizardmen, High Elves, Warriors of Chaos
Tier 3: Brettonia, Dwarves, Wood Elves
Tier 4: Empire, Ogres, Tomb Kings
Tier 5: Beasts of Chaos, Orcs and Goblins

*Like strewart said we can't really judge Skaven until they are out from some months but I still believe with what is on paper that they'll be in the "top five."
 
As said, its my personal opinion, Empire can have some very nasty lists, Steamtanks anyone? even the priests/ altar list is very tough

comparing the 2, I'd say Lizzies higher than Empire, but I put Empire above the other tier 3 armies, and lizardmen below what I've listed as Tier 2, we're competitive, but not quite there, hence the tier 2.5
 
Call me crazy, but I'm gunna list them as I've seen them perform personally...

Tier 1: Daemons, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves
Tier 2: Lizardmen, High Elves, Warriors of Chaos
Tier 3: Tomb Kings, Dwarves, Wood Elves, (Skaven)
Tier 4: Empire, Bretonnia
Tier 5: Beasts of Chaos, Orcs and Goblins, Ogres

Skaven need to be judged on upcoming book before I'd put them anywhere higher, because they may very well end up tier two after we learn all the new tricks and understand how to take them apart.

But thats all really just my opinion... To be honest I'm tempted of making DE tier two. They are tough, but I've seen them get pretty owned by good Skaven players, and Good Tomb King Players, which makes me think they are inbetween 1 and 3...aka 2. Lol.

If I had to put them in a totally numbered list, it might go something like this;

1: Daemons of Chaos
2: Vampire Counts
3: Warriors of Chaos
4: Lizardmen
5: Dark Elves
6: High Elves
7: Tomb Kings
8: Skaven
9: Dwarfs
10: Wood Elfs
11: Empire
12: Bretonnia
13: Ogre Kingdoms
14: Orcs and Goblins
15: Beasts of Chaos


While making this I moved tihngs every 5 seconds, so it may not be a perfect list, but thats kind of my opinion. At least a basic outline of it. :D
 
I think with the new book skaven will be on a much higher level than tomb kings and high elves.
 
This would be my list and is also in rank order (though I voted for tier 2 before I filled it in):

1.
Daemons of Chaos

2.
Dark Elves
Vampire Counts

3.
Lizardmen
Skaven
High Elves
Tomb Kings

4.
Wood Elfs
Warriors of Chaos
Empire
Bretonnia

5.
Orcs and Goblins
Dwarfs
Beasts of Chaos
Ogre Kingdoms
 
As a dwarf player I find it disturbing that you put the Dwarves way down in the bottom.
(for all the Dwarf players sake: use Dwarves, instead of Dwarfs. We Dwarf players DO notice the difference :P Ale on my tab!)
Ahem, right.

My 'list'
1. Daemons
2. VC, WoC, DE
3. Lizardmen, Skaven, Wood Elves
4. Dwarves, Empire, Brets, HE
5. TK
6. O&G, Beasts, Ogres.

Tk is better than (my) tier 6, strictly better.
Daemons are still on top; VC and DE very close behind. WoC is so high because of their insane CC and magical power.
Tier 3 and 4 is mostly personal opinion.
Lizzies are tough, with very good supporting units and strong blocks. Skaven have sooo much models and shooting/Magis missiles, you really have to watch your step versus them. Woodies rank so high because they can always slip through and make carnage. With all of their army very mobile, they decide what happens; I think movement makes or breaks the game and Wood Elves happen to be masters of movement :P
Dwarves, Empire, HE are here because they have some strong lists but they are simply beaten by the higher tier lists. Brettonians are here as well, because one wrong judgement and you lost a unit with theyr thunderous charge. That's the danger from the brettonians.
Then TK, they get beaten by higher tiers (maybe small wins again T3+4) and win versus the last group...
Tier 6. They are very fun and characterfull armies, but just don't make the cut versus anything but a balanced (read: not fluffy) list.

That's my breakdown, but as i said. The armies in my Tier 3 and 4 are mostly on personal opinion. I find WE hard to battle, maybe you find them easy. But then again you could struggle against Dwarves, when I know how to beat them...The top and bottom are more of fixed points.

I think Skaven will stay in the same tier. They will not stand up vs VC, WoC and DE. Other armies find them very tough, as do we, but in the end the top armies will structuraly win vs them (I think)

Wew, that's done!

The hunted
 
My list:

Tier 1: Daemons, Vamires, DE, Skaven (new)
Tier 2: Lizardmen, Wood Elves, WoC
Tier 3:Bretonnia, Empire, HE
Tier 4:TK, Dwarves
Tier 5: Beasts, Greenskins, Ogres

As a reply to WoC being better than Skaven, I don't think so. That thirteenth spell as well as jezzails and globes picking off your super spendy units means warriors will fall left and right.
 
I would have to rank the armies something like this

Tier 1: Daemons, Vampire Counts

Tier 2: Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos, High elves

Tier 3: Dwarves, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, Skaven, Empire

Tier 4: Tomb Kings, Orcs and Goblins

Tier 5: Ogres, Beasts of Chaos

I would rate them overall this way. Certian builds will take armies up or down in a tournament. A good all round list from an army will give you these tiers IMO.

I also don't think that we were the only army not to get 'powered up' to the big levels. I don't think WoC got too big a boost. High elves look amazing on paper but they are still quite beatable. Of the last 6 books the only really big power boost is with Daemons, and to a little less degree VC. I also think Dark elves are pretty reasonable in power.

Pretty much any army can be 'bent' to horrible levels of power gaming. I have even seen some 'broken' ogre lists.
 
lupercal said:
High elves look amazing on paper but they are still quite beatable.
Click to expand...

Yeah I must say I am quite surprised HE are being rated so high by everyone... They are a lot better than in 6th ed, but are still a fragile army that is tough to use and requires finesse. ASF isn't anywhere near as powerful as everyone predicted since they often get the charge off due to high movement anyway, and have high initiative. I would rate them lower than tier 2, and I play the army! :P

WoC... Well, insane. Rediculous. Stupid in combat. I guess good in magic, I haven't really faced a magic heavy WoC army. But they are very one dimensional. All they really have is combat and they are fairly slow. Infantry having 2+ AS in combat, high strength and toughness, and multiple attacks is essentially broken, but given how slow they are.. Most armies have a way to deal with them. I certainly, above all other rankings, rate daemons, VC and DE (in that order) above the rest in general, and possibly soon Skaven. But of course a lot of it does depend on what list you take and how you deploy.
 
I feel I need to say something about these comments people are making about 'an army can be built to be a higher tier' To me the higher tiers are there because the armies have a greater versatility in the way the can be constructed to be powerful. The whole point of the tiers is so that the higher armies do NOT need to be specifically constructed to be a force to be reckoned with
examples: Deamons - pretty much every list someone comes up with will be a competitive list
Lizards - we have a slann and engie list an old blood carnie list and a couple more lists that we can take that can be competitive. If we (lizzies) want to be a strong competitor we are almost forced into one of these lists.
Beasts - they have essentially one list and that is lots of chariots.

I know these are generalizations, a good player can place high in a competition with a 'soft' lists, but the likely hood of finding those 'soft' competition lists decreases drastically down the ladder.

That is why I have placed the lizards on tier three with high elves, wood elves, warriors, and to a slightly lesser extent (read 3.5) dwarves and empire. These armies can be really powerful but they tend to be found in certain moulds if you will.

Deamons are Tier 1 VC and DE are tier 2.
 
The Lizardmen are, according to me, in the 2nd tier along with High Elves and Warriors.
We have a solid well balanced list, but nothing is over the top, which is the case in the Big 3 armies (Daemons, Vampires and Dark Elves)
A complete tier list would be something like this in my opinion.

Tier 1
Daemons
Vampires
Dark Elves

Tier 2
Lizardmen
High Elves
Warriors of Chaos

Tier 3
(Old) Skaven
Dwarves
Empire
Bretonnia
Wood Elves

Tier 4
Tomb Kings
Ogre Kingdoms

Tier 5
Orcs and Goblins
Beasts of Chaos
 
I voted Tier 2 and this is how I would order all of the armies. I haven't read the actual skaven book so i am going from comments and rumours (which are basically true).

Tier 1 - Daemons, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts
In that order:
Daemons = anyone can win with by moving forward and killing everything.
Dark Elves = mass shooty death and 175 point Hydra.
VC = mass raising and wraiths, but aren't mobile and now people have got used to it.

Tier 2 - Lizardmen, Skaven*, Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Lizardmen = Very flexible in unit use, but still need 2 stegs and TG Slann bunker most of the time.
Skaven = Seem to have a lot of treats but not enough space. Also doesnt have anything too broken
WoC = Gateway ftw. Rare to see other builds
High Elves = Good but not broken. Dragons are nice but i think magic is key.

Tier 3 - Empire, Dwarfs, Wood Elves,
Empire = Gunline or alter builds
Dwarfs = Gunline and Anvil builds
Wood Elves = Very flexible but find it hard to take out monsters that dominate the game


Tier 4 - Tomb Kings, Bretonnians, Ogres
TK = Not necessarily awful but very hard to use well.
Bretonnians = Boring charge forward and most likely bounce. Poor Ld for humans.
Ogres = Only 1 build that still isnt very succesful. Still think this army was a waste of time.

Tier 5 - Orcs and Goblins, Beasts of Chaos
O+G = Poor Psychology, animosity sucks, still have a few tricks
BoC = Poor Ld, only chariots, need a fix up now


I would say old Skaven were Tier 4. Not awful but couldnt deal with anything too nasty.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top