8th Ed. What's the best way to beat a High Elf camper?

[DesertLIZARD]

As i said before in my introduction, my friend plays as the high elves. He's a camper; the person who waits for the other player (me) to come to them so they can get the charge first while using his bolt throwers to take down all my monsterous beasts. Usually in a 1750 point match, he will always have a set of calvary waiting along with spearmen, swordmasters and phoenix guard with magic and bolt throwers to piss me off. What can I do?

-Brett

 

[Rokanos]

I'd say sallies, skinks, and chameleons. shoot n run, but i'd take the advice of some of the vets here. I'm still rather new to the game

 

[DesertLIZARD]

Salamanders would be targetted by his bolt throwers, skinks would be targetted by his magic (Flames of the Phoenix), but idk if chameleon skinks would be able to be deployed anywhere 12 inches away but in front of him; he uses all of the back space so scouts won't be able to fit behind him.

 

[Arli]

A unit of 10 skinks right in front of his war machine. March your 12 on your turn and get out of the charge arc before shooting. A unit of Terradons could help as well (using the vaguard move), if nothing else as a way to draw his fire.

 

[Rokanos]

Gotta think in terms of what you need to sacrifice in order to get to him.

Block the bolt throwers with skink skirmishers as Arli said. Charge them straight at him if you have to, it will buy you some time for your core to reach his. For 70pts, a screen of 10 (I personally take 2 units of 12 in my games and they always perform like champs.) can buy you enough time and possibly even do some damage prior to being killed off.

You may want to center your core to one side of the board (terrain willing) to force him to move his units to meet you, then place your chameleons near a tree line and hound the warmachines should he choose to move his melee units away from them and towards your core.


Granted these are all "If this, If that" scenarios...it could go anyway, just throwing out some ideas, some things that I have used before to great victory. Most of my experience, however, is 2k+, so there is a little more flexibility at that range.

 

[DesertLIZARD]

Oh forgot to mention... my friend uses a hill for his bolt throwers...so i think that screen is out of the question.

 

[Rokanos]

Sounds like you need to randomize terrain and starting areas

 

[Xul]

Oh forgot to mention... my friend uses a hill for his bolt throwers...so i think that screen is out of the question.

you can also understand the screen as presenting multiple targets. when the balista is on a hill, your skinks won't screen the saurus from shooting, but will threaten to charge his balista. so he has to choose to shoot the skinks or the saurus. add a sallie on the flank and now he has 3 targets.
my firend also plays HE with a similar setup. last game I put 6 chameleons just in front of his balista and a sea guard unit was also close (although out of LOS). I didn't get the 1st turn, but he only managed to kill 1 chameleon by shooting at it with the whole sea guard and the balista. the balista will need 5+ to hit the chameleons.
so don't be afraid to put chameleons just in front of the balistas, if u get the 1st turn, you can kill them off, if not, you still have a good chance to survive and you are still a threat for him. in the meantime, you advance your sallie and saurus.

 

[JohnMavrick]

Don't take stuff like Stegadons and Carnosaurs. Salamanders are a great pin cushin for the bolt throwers and other archers.

Chameleons are also worth their weight in gold! They are harder to hit (-2 or better if they are in terrain) They have better BS and can still double tap.

Terradons are also awesome. They are excellent in close combat against bolt throwers since you'll have six attacks plus a stomp. I would advise against a chief on terradon because he'll be a huge target for bolt throwers.

CoC is also an option in small units. They have huge hitting power on the charge and have good armour. If you put them in one rank and don't let him get an infilading shot he can only kill one at a time with a standard bolt and you'll have a +3 AS if he does multiple shots.

 

[Eagleblaze]

Mass skinks, TG with Slann with +2 ward against shooting and sun standard, just T6, regen and regrowth skinks while you march up the board then shoot thos 90 point BT's to death...they only get 2 crew.

Oh and DON'T let him set up the terrain himself and give himself a hill, that is what we call cheating...

-Eagle

 

[JohnMavrick]

Off of Eagle's last comment;

There is a wonderful chart in the book with which to unarbitrarily set up terrain. After terrain is set up then roll off to choose table sides. So if you win and there is a side with a hill on it choose that side so that he doesn't get it.

Gotta help him stay honest. No body likes someone who sets up a table for their favor (trust me, I know as I'm a Wood Elf player and if there is even one single forrest on the board and it was set up by someone else ahead of time they STILL blame me for cheating!)

 

[DesertLIZARD]

Hmm, i think that pretty much covered that question, now im gunna go take my friend down now. Thanks all

 

[Arli]

I always get a third party to set up terrain once we have rolled it. That way, it favors neither of us. You could let him set the terrain and you choose the side you start on if that is not an option.

 

[vapor]

Take turns setting up terrain, then roll to see who gets to pick which side to set up on.

 

[Xul]

Terradons are also awesome. They are excellent in close combat against bolt throwers since you'll have six attacks plus a stomp. I would advise against a chief on terradon because he'll be a huge target for bolt throwers.

they don't get to stomp, as there are no stomps against WMs. I think it was discussed in the forum several times.

 

[Arli]

Terradons are also awesome. They are excellent in close combat against bolt throwers since you'll have six attacks plus a stomp. I would advise against a chief on terradon because he'll be a huge target for bolt throwers.

While I agree that they are targets, the unit of at least 3 terradons with that chief should shield him (and give him a lookout sir +2 up) from those weapons. The unit will be a huge target for template magic or death magic.

 

[Xul]

Terradons are also awesome. They are excellent in close combat against bolt throwers since you'll have six attacks plus a stomp. I would advise against a chief on terradon because he'll be a huge target for bolt throwers.

While I agree that they are targets, the unit of at least 3 terradons with that chief should shield him (and give him a lookout sir +2 up) from those weapons. The unit will be a huge target for template magic or death magic.

to get "look out, sir!", the character needs to be in a unit with at least 5 other rank-and-file models of the same troop type. that would be a waste of points. even then, it is only against unusual attacks (cannons, using templates, etc..), which don't use normal shooting rules. so I'd say you can't use it against a balista (it uses normal rules for shooting, although special rules for wounding in the case of the bolt).

 

[DesertLIZARD]

How about this, the way i would set up the jungle terrain i made, ill have the terradons fly to get behind one jungle cover to the next until i know ill be able to charge his ballistas =D. I just bought the 8th ed today and it holds wonders. a unit of 50 skinks would be so much fun to use along with some kroxigors and a chief with a shield of the mirrored pool so if my friend thinks he'll cast flames of the phoenix on me? He and his unit that he joins will have fun when it's reflected back!

 

[strewart]

CoC is also an option in small units. They have huge hitting power on the charge and have good armour. If you put them in one rank and don't let him get an infilading shot he can only kill one at a time with a standard bolt and you'll have a +3 AS if he does multiple shots.

Speaking from the experience of a HE general, heavy cavalry are really no trouble for bolt throwers... And I believe their save would be 4+ since the multi shot is s4 and armour piercing for -2 AS overall. Even if it only kills one or two, the remaining models will pose no threat as they will face ASF and bounce off even lowly spearmen. CoC are not worth it...


And yeah, as Xul said, stomp only works against infantry, and wamachines don't count as such so it doesn't effect them... Still, a couple of terradons should deal with the bolt thrower crew. They will strike first but aren't very good in combat. You will at least beat them with charge bonus even if they aren't wiped.

 

[JohnMavrick]

Bolt throwers have AP? Hmm, didn't see that in the book. Better consult it. And didn't know about the stomp issue with WM. Best make sure I inform my guys about that. Our Dwarf player will be expecially happy with that news!