8th Ed. whats good and whats not

[eggory]

so by now it seems that everyone has got a good taste for 8th edition so i want to ask the question what is good and whats not? from my experience i have to say that salamanders are in, ive managed to rout a unit of 60 swords man with just one. ive also taken a liking to saurus hoards but only one unit of 50 a game as any more seems a wast of point with my opponents isolating the one and letting it do nothing for the whole game.

please share you opinions

 

[asrodrig]

Good
Slann
Saurus
Skrox
Salamanders

So-so
Carnosaur
Kroxigor
Cold One Riders
Terradons
Stegadons
Razordons

Bad
Special Characters
Jungle Swarms

 

[Walgis]

Good
Slann
Saurus
Skrox
Salamanders

So-so
Carnosaur
Kroxigor
Cold One Riders
Terradons
Stegadons
Razordons

Bad
Special Characters
Jungle Swarms

i would put CoR in bad and kroxigors in good

 

[strewart]

I'd put razordons in bad as well...

Saurus are an interesting one. I'm pretty sure they will definitely be good, but it is going to take a while to figure out what the optimum build for them is.

Temple Guard weren't mentioned. They're probably average, a bit worse than before since they no longer have the versatility to choose hand weapons and a Slann is more likely to destroy them with a miscast.

 

[jmg101]

correct me if im wrong please but i do believe the brb states that the unit must use the other weapons of they purchased it. temple guard come standard with halberds, ive never used them but you should be able to use the hand weapon and shield.

 

[jmg101]

i correct myself, i just read it in the book. yea this sucks i will rarely take TG now.

 

[eggory]

Good
Slann
Saurus
Skrox
Salamanders

So-so
Carnosaur
Kroxigor
Cold One Riders
Terradons
Stegadons
Razordons

Bad
Special Characters
Jungle Swarms

i have to agree with Walgis on COR being suckish now and a hord of krox if a formidable sight to see an the feild of battle though it costs 1000 points to field im alsoo not sold on the use of terradons and think they should be put away aswell

 

[Kurlin]

i have to agree with Walgis on COR being suckish now and a hord of krox if a formidable sight to see an the feild of battle though it costs 1000 points to field im alsoo not sold on the use of terradons and think they should be put away aswell

Terradons are still far from useless. They have gone from must haves to so-so/good. Now instead of 2 units I will probably stick to 1. But they are not on the same level of suckiness that swarms, razordons, and probably CoR(for the points) are.

 

[vapor]

Temple Guard weren't mentioned. They're probably average, a bit worse than before since they no longer have the versatility to choose hand weapons and a Slann is more likely to destroy them with a miscast.

Actually, the only way I take them is when my Slann takes lore of life. Between the miscast prevention and the awesome buffs (regen, + toughness, regrowth, thorns) they're actually better off using halberds.

 

[Vilicate]

Here's how I'd rate the list under 8th:
Great:
Slann
Salamanders

Good:
Skrox
Saurus
TG
Skink Skirmishers
Stegadon
Cham Skinks

Decent:
Terradons
Krox

Bad:
SCoC
Razordons
Swarms

I added another category. Honestly, I think lizardmen are probably one of the top three armies in the game now; they've got so many options for their units that make them solid. It's not necessarily that they have lots more ways to play the army, but what their units can do is just great for their point cost.

Plus, Salamander are really, really broken in the new edition.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Why all the TG hate folks? to me they've more taken a side-step from rock-hard anvils to halberd waving, damage dealing loonies! I find them, point-for-point an even, if not better shock troop than Krox. The only time I'd ever not use them is when I wanted my slann solo (which in my mind is a much more vulnerable build) other than that, one unit with the slann, and one unit as a hammer, they're gold!

 

[Vilicate]

They're definitely solid.

I like that they're better offensively than the SCoC.

I'd actually consider taking a unit without a slann now.

 

[strewart]

Are they worth the increase in points over hand weapon and shield saurus since they will essentially serve the same purpose though? I really don't think so for a tiny bit extra strength and worse armour.

 

[Dreadgrass]

But thats part of the point, they're not necessarily an Anvil unit anymore, they can be hammers!

I've done the comparison in a few places, but point-for-point I think TG make better hammers than Krox. Better WS, not ASL, more ranks for your points, better save against shooting, command options,etc.

regarding TG VS sword and board saurus though, the extra points nets you:

+1WS, +1S, +1I, +1 save VS shooting, banner options, magic item options

and you loose:

points which could equate to number of models, 6+ward in CC

and compared to spears you loose:

points (though less than HW&S), a rank of attacks

All in all not too bad a deal I think, they fill a different niche but overall I think are a very effective combat unit without being relegated to a slann bodyguard only role.

 

[strewart]

Yeah actually I have often found that when you compare elite hard hitting infantry to unit of monsters and sometimes even chariots the infantry will perform better point for point. It is disappointing for krox to be s/t 4 and without doing the maths I'd probably believe that 3 TG are at least as good if not better than 1 krox (equal wounds).

Krox aren't too common on their own though, they are much better with a unit of skinks.

 

[Sotek]

Here's where I'm at with ranking our stuffs:

Great:
Slann
Gor-Rok
Scar-vets
Salamanders
Saurus
Chameleon Skinks

Good:
Ranked Skinks
Skink Skirmishers
Terradons
Skink Chief w/ war-spear and steggie
Engine
Old-Blood
Ancient Stegadon

Average:
Skrox
Krox
Skink Priests
Jungle Swarms
Stegadon

Poor:
Temple Guard
razordons
CoC
Skink Chiefs
All named characters who are not giant albino lizards

 

[wolfmage]

I've found chakax usefull for pounding on strong enemy units from his temple guard unit

 

[Gambit]

Why is temple guards bad? I havent started my lizzie army yet but they look pretty cool so I wanna know

 

[Ilnar3]

They arnt bad per say.
Let's compare them to chaos warriors with halberds, and shields,
Worse, WS I
Same S T A points, AS
Better leadership,
Warriors are core, TG special,,,
Wait,,,,,,,

Chaos warriors with hand weapon shield?
Worse, ws I AS
Same T A points
Better S leadership,
Hang on,,,,,

They aren't bad, just not as good as the same points cost of core chaos warriors,
Against humans or elves, they aren't terrible,
Unless the elves have great weapons,

 

[vapor]

They arnt bad per say.
Let's compare them to chaos warriors with halberds, and shields,
Worse, WS I
Same S T A points, AS
Better leadership,
Warriors are core, TG special,,,
Wait,,,,,,,

Chaos warriors with hand weapon shield?
Worse, ws I AS
Same T A points
Better S leadership,
Hang on,,,,,

They aren't bad, just not as good as the same points cost of core chaos warriors,
Against humans or elves, they aren't terrible,
Unless the elves have great weapons,

By themselves you'd be correct. However, toss a Slann in (like you should be doing) and they become coldblooded, rerollable, stubborn 9 (10 if your Slann is the BSB with the standard of discipline), ITP, and one of the best bodyguard units in the game (Slann can't be hit in CC until you're down to 3 models). They also give the Slann a much needed look out sir roll. There are also plenty of nice magic banners you can squeeze on them, I prefer warbanner or the dirt cheap flaming banner (for killing off regen/flammable target and causing fear in cav and beasts) from the 8th ed book.

There are even more benefits when you take lore of life with the Slann. Miscast protection (from throne of vines, which also buffs your other spells and should always be up) keeps you from killing the unit yourself. Regrowth lets you replace casualties. Flesh to stone raises them up to toughness 8. Shield of thorns can help whittle whoever your fighting down. But the best, imo, is earthblood-- 4+ regen.

With that in mind, you're looking at a unit of 16 with FC (5x4 with Slann in there) that puts out 14 WS 4, Str 5 attacks, has Toughness 4, 4+ AS (3+ vs shooting), has a static CR of +5... and could potentially go up to T 8, 4+ regen, and do 2d6 str 4 hits to each enemy unit in BtB contact-- oh, and be brought back from the dead.

Yeah, let's see those silly warriors pull off something like that. A lot of our strength lies in our combo's.