8th Ed. What's a Coatl do?

[Caneghem]

Subject says it all, what in the world will this rather lightweight looking creature do?

Maybe a skink priest mount that boosts magic?

Some kind of army-buffing monster that avoids close combat and has a shooting attack?

A very poisonous and deadly critter that specializes in assassination?

If we judge based on how it usually is depicted, this is not your usual heavyweight hitter of a monster. What does everyone think?

 

[rychek]

I don't have the old rules in front of me, but it was more of a magical beastie than a physical heavy hitter. If i recall correctly, it was a mage in addition to a flying monster.

 

[T`hinker`er]

Under the Warhammer Annual rules, it allowed you to move D6 pieces of terrain a d6" after deployment but before the start of the game. I think that conforms to some of the lizardman fiction that I've read in the GW novels, where invaders become hopelessly lost and the jungle itself seems to be rising up to thwart their movements. Frankly, if you could also generate D3 lizard swarms anywhere within 12" of Coatl once per game, it would also fit in perfectly with the fluff that's been written about the Lizardmen over the years in Warhammer books.

If I could extrapolate beyond this and offer my own wish list, I would make Coatl a magical creature, and therefore both "ethereal" and with a ward save of 3+.

I don't see Coatl having a significant attack role, but a nasty, venomous bite would be in character for a big flying snake. Something beyond jungle poison. Maybe doing a d6 wounds on any roll of "6" to hit?

I could also see Coatl being a master of Heavens/Celestial magic. How that is implemented would be anyone's guess. I will just throw out that IMO, he should be personally immune to its effects, have Lore Master, and a re-roll for channelling, much as the new High Elves are rumored to have.

I do not see such a creature being a mount. It would certainly be rare, and frankly should be unique, so you could never take more than one.

My 2 plaques worth...

 

[rychek]

The new HE don't have a native channeling re-roll. They only get a +1 to cast for High Magic. They got nerfed in magic pretty significantly. Makes me worry for the Slann in a few months.

 

[T`hinker`er]

High Elves nerfed in magic pretty significantly? Do tell. From what I know (or think I know) the new High Magic spells are very, very good. And all HE mages are +1 to cast High Magic. I don't see what there is for HE's to complain about.

I have heard that Teclis got nerfed, although my group and I never use special characters anyway, so this isn't really an argument for me.

Anyway, for Coatl to give some form of army-wide boost to the use of Heavens Magic would seem to fit in, and I don't think an extra power dice once in awhile would be that overpowered.

 

[n810]

My friends play completely un-comped.
So I have played against him several times,
trust me, he definately needed Nerfing.

 

[rychek]

Nerfed in that Book of Hoeth, as we knew it, is gone. The Anuulian Crystal, Banner of Scorcery and Silver wand are gone as well. Universal +1 to dispel is gone too. Barring High Magic, they are little better at their designated magic role than human wizards. The new Book of Hoeth help with the loss of dice from the banner and crystal, but not by much. These changes do not bode well for the Slann in the new book.

 

[Mr Phat]

I do not see such a creature being a mount.

Page 5 in our book, now you do

Anyway, for Coatl to give some form of army-wide boost to the use of Heavens Magic would seem to fit in, and I don't think an extra power dice once in awhile would be that overpowered.

Sadly you are right..It would make sense! even though im hoping for the opposite! I seriously hope that they wont stick us to Heavens as the only NON lord 2nd lore for another edition -.-

These changes do not bode well for the Slann in the new book.

or: it leaves space for the Slann to be dominant without being way to OP. Sometimes its better for a game to lower the bar of others instead of just juicing up the one who needs to be good.

 

[rychek]

These changes do not bode well for the Slann in the new book.

or: it leaves space for the Slann to be dominant without being way to OP. Sometimes its better for a game to lower the bar of others instead of just juicing up the one who needs to be good.

In theory I agree. In application, it remains to be seen.

In regard to the coatl, it would be awesome if GW released an usable unit based on our fine feathered serpent friend.

 

[Mr Phat]

In theory I agree. In application, it remains to be seen.

In regard to the coatl, it would be awesome if GW released an usable unit based on our fine feathered serpent friend.

One way or another our frog is going to change. I hope he gets balanced...and get this right: balanced dosnt mean he cant get OP, it just means you have to pay a fair deal for him to be it. I still think Slanns should have one or two tons more of options than other casters. It IS described as the most omnipotent being in the world, and it IS able to do unimaginal things just by pure thought:

In the book there is a short story that points to fluff story in the Dwarfs army book: appearantly one of their greatest cities got ruined as the mountain it was beneath collapsed without warning.
This was done by a Slann (from the other side of the world), as part of restoring some magical powerlines that ran through that mountain ( I think ).


As for the Coatl I think that there has never been a better time to cross fingers:
1: 9th edition close by heralding new flyer rules (we wont get a new book until then)
2. HE just got their big magicaly-attuned phoenix in a size that would fit the Coatl also.
3. Lizardmen needs flyer alternatives to terradons and Carpet-scarvets
4. Lizardmen players have been craving for the Coatl for ages.
5. a skink in lord lvl (what I think our lvl 3 caster option is going to be) will need a mount option that isnt just another stegadon
6. Lizardmen misses a flying mount in general (I still wonder how the most ancient, magical and REPTILISH race in warhammer can fail to get a single dragon in their stable)

roll a D6 and pick your reason GW!

 

[T`hinker`er]

I do not see such a creature being a mount.

Page 5 in our book, now you do

Ah, thanks. I guess I didn't study that bit of artwork before very closely. Interesting. It appears to have two tails and very long fangs. I would hope that if you took this as a skink mount the skink ought to be a lord and not a chief. But I still see it as an unmounted magical creature in most scenarios.

As for the fangs, I'm going to change my view on the bite from D6 wounds on a to hit roll of 6, to Killing Blow. And all attacks from the Coatl are magical.

 

[FavoredoftheOldOnes]

As much as I'd like to agree with everyone this is all just wishful thinking. Its GW and they will do one of two things:

1. Make a horrible looking model (yeah um our cold ones...???)
2. Make the rules for it retarded in a way that won't even be good for use in an army and/or too many points for what it does (Kroxigors anyone?)

Oh and don't forget they will probably cost a billion dollars like everything else. That's my rant.

 

[Mr Phat]

1. GW makes plenty of good looking models, so I think thats a poorly argumentet statement. (not saying the chance isnt there...I really see the danger too. )
No one would have said a word about dumb-looking Cold Ones if the DE hadnt got a more agressive raptorish-design. I for one like ours..I like theirs better true, but I still like ours.

2. Current Kroxigor rules is what...5 years old? also from a different edition where Fear made sense.
We WILL see a massive point drop and statchanges. If it keeps its cost, I sure as hell hope its because we get OUR version of the Beast of Nurgle. Of course GW has a tendency to get a brainfart while writting rules, but the last 8th books that has come out has been rather solid. I wouldnt worry before need be.

I think it will be in the pricerange of the phoenixes, so standard.

All in all it seems to me that you are looking at the upcoming 8th book with 7th book eyes

 

[Old Mossy]

TBH, GW also make a lot of crappy looking models. eg. Nagash, Arial, any of the new chaos (which IMO have zero character whatsoever).

Meanwhile, I'm pretty excited for some rule and list shake-ups for us, including the anticipated arrival of the coatl. I'd assume it would be similar to the high-elf phoenix mentioned earlier, in terms of stats, hopefully as a caster as well. The fluff makes them out kind of squishy, but I can't see them putting out a big monster that isn't combat oriented (correct me if I've wrong. I did try to think of an example of that kind).

 

[Mr Phat]

The fluff makes them out kind of squishy, but I can't see them putting out a big monster that isn't combat oriented (correct me if I've wrong. I did try to think of an example of that kind).

Well, wardsave and semi-thick scalyskin dosnt seem too far of?
And then its a serpent, so reflexes in form of -1 to hit dosnt seem stretched either?
In any way they need to express thats its agile.

....they better not give me a big flying monster that can only stand in the backline and cheering with heavens magic! I will do things this forum does not allow me to express!

 

[n810]

Hmmmm... perhaps something different like 3+ magic resistance ?

 

[Mr Phat]

Wont save it in combat.

 

[Old Mossy]

Ooooo maybe it's got a cannonball catcher's mitt! Save vs cannonball on a 2+. C'mmmmmmon catcher's mitt!

 

[rychek]

LOL. That would be awesome!

 

[Caneghem]

Never count out the possibility that Lizardmen will get their own Lore. GW knows that it will basically guarantee all of us purchase the spell deck of cards for an extra 10 dollars.

If you factor in the possibility of a Lizardman lore, then the possibilities for a coatl that can tie into that lore become very interesting indeed.

I'd also like to see some kind of flyover attack, that would probably be based on some kind of poison cloud. If they REALLY follow the model of the phoenix, they might give us a couple variants to choose from. Maybe a more "fighty" version that can be ridden by a skink chief and a squishier magic/support coatl that a skink priest can ride. This would mirror the necro/warsphinx and phoenix dual-kit concept. This helps us along the path of buying two or three of the things.

The combat variant would have a higher armor save (4+?) and probably a 5+ standard ward save. I'd like to see a decent number of attacks 4-5 at strength 4, 5+ poison, and D3 wounds. Big giant fangs full of the worst poison Lustria has to offer!

Magic variant more lightly armored, and ties into possible LM magic or heavens magic in some way. Not as killy in close combat. Maybe the magic one gets a 4+ ward.

My idea for the flyover attack... virulence cloud. This would work for both coatl variants.

Virulent Cloud
D6 str 3 wounds (not hits) to one unit flown over by the coatl. Armor and ward saves as normal. In addition, poison attacks directed against the unit receive +1 to hit until the end of the turn. This CAN cause a normally non-poisoning shot to cause a poison effect. So all those blowpipe shots or other poison shots that roll a 5 against the unit count as poisoning hits.